Thread: Sochi Olympics and the Law against Gays in Russia +

Well, I tried to steer clear of this thread (I know I posted here first ) for as long as I saw it rapidly growing. I didn't read the whole thread but as from what I see I can say that people just forgot what this thread was all about and started to advocate/deny gay rights. At risk to become unpopular I think I have to express my thoughts about all that.

First of all, the whole thread was not about gay rights but about why it's ridiculous to boycott Sochi Olympics because of the law. Well, I'm gonna tell you why:

If somebody here really thinks that gay athletes will be persecuted due to this law they need to guess again. Russian high officials are bound to give the police orders to look the other way when it comes to dealing with anything regarding Olympics. Russia is not interested in letting Olympics go astray from what they see perfect Olympic games. That's the matter of the country's image nonetheless! If you look at the history of how Russia held any impoprtant even it will just become obvious. We always try to organize the most lavish, perfect and astonishing events if they're to be international. This is the Russian thing, it's a part of our culture. (Well, the thing is that we don't always undoubtly pull this off but that's another thing to discuss. ) There is nothing to believe it's gonna be different this time or at any time soon.


Second of all, did somebody here actually examine the law? All it says is that it's prohibited to popularize the notion among juveniles that being a gay is utterly great, awesome and so much better than being dully straight. In other words it's illegal to tell juveniles that they should be gay or to incline them to be gay by any means. And it undoubtly doesn't prohibit anyone from being gay, also it doesn't prohibit anyone from telling an adult that to be gay is great, doesn't prohibit gay clubs as long as they host adults only, doesn't prohibit so called "pride parades" as long as no juveniles are involved and it doesn't prohibit any gay symbolics. Still more it doesn't prohibit a whole load of other gay activities but I think it's enough for now because you've most likely got the point already.

All what I wrote is based on what I concluded from the actual law text after I'd actully read it. But don't take my word for that, after having read the law text I also happened upon the interview of the initiator of the law, Elena Mizulina.

The interview is in Russian but this site is called Master Russian so I trust you can get at least the main point of the interview and you surely are welcome to ask me to clarify anything you dind't understand there.

Also, one more thing, I agree that this law is far from perfect so some amendments are surely to come, But what law was perfect in its first edition? Even so sacred American constitution had and I'm sure will have some amendments.

As far as I see it now this law is not against gays it's against turning our children into gays or somehow inclining them to become one. It definitely doesn't deprive gays of their normal life, that just impose some limits om their interactions with children. And if you ask me I'd say all persons, be they straight or gay, have some certain limits on how they're allowed to interact with children.

That's all what I had to say. I hope I didn't hurt or abuse anyone but this is my view on the law

Originally Posted by iCake

First of all, the whole thread was not about gay rights but about why it's ridiculous to boycott Sochi Olympics because of the law. Well, I'm gonna tell you why:

If somebody here really thinks that gay athletes will be persecuted due to this law they need to guess again. Russian high officials are bound to give the police orders to look the other way when it comes to dealing with anything regarding Olympics. Russia is not interested in letting Olympics go astray from what they see perfect Olympic games. That's the matter of the country's image nonetheless! If you look at the history of how Russia held any impoprtant even it will just become obvious. We always try to organize the most lavish, perfect and astonishing events if they're to be international. This is the Russian thing, it's a part of our culture. (Well, the thing is that we don't always undoubtly pull this off but that's another thing to discuss. ) There is nothing to believe it's gonna be different this time or at any time soon.

I have been opposed to a boycott all along. I very much doubt that Russia is going to arrest foreigners in Sochi, because if they arrest everyone who wears a rainbow or paints their nails like rainbows, they would have to arrest thousands of people and they are not going to have the manpower or facilities for that.

I also think that Russia needs these Games. They need the tourism and money the Games will generate for the Russian economy, and they need the prestige of the Games because Russia plans to hold more international competitions in the future.

On the other hand, I would not be surprised if there are some overzealous police officers who DO arrest foreigners during the Olympics and cause a huge scandal. The very fact that this law has been created, and the fact that there has been so much back-and-forth with officials in Russia and on the International Olympic Committee about how and to what degree the laws will be enforced during the games, has led to a lot of concern and outrage in the west. I think because people are so outraged about the law, Russia might as well have said "Hey! All you queers! Come on over and show us how you feel about this law!" I think you can expect to see a LOT of protest during the Games, and it is going to be very interesting how Russia will respond to that.

There is no way to foresee the future, but I predict that there will be a lot of foreigners protesting the laws.

Second of all, did somebody here actually examine the law? All it says is that it's prohibited to popularize the notion among juveniles that being a gay is utterly great, awesome and so much better than being dully straight. In other words it's illegal to tell juveniles that they should be gay or to incline them to be gay by any means. And it undoubtly doesn't prohibit anyone from being gay, also it doesn't prohibit anyone from telling an adult that to be gay is great, doesn't prohibit gay clubs as long as they host adults only, doesn't prohibit so called "pride parades" as long as no juveniles are involved and it doesn't prohibit any gay symbolics. Still more it doesn't prohibit a whole load of other gay activities but I think it's enough for now because you've most likely got the point already.

Alex posted the entire text of the law and we have discussed it at some length already.

As far as I see it now this law is not against gays it's against turning our children into gays or somehow inclining them to become one. It definitely doesn't deprive gays of their normal life, that just impose some limits om their interactions with children. And if you ask me I'd say all persons, be they straight or gay, have some certain limits on how they're allowed to interact with children.

You can't turn a child gay. A child is either gay or not gay. Unfortunately, with this law in place, gay children will not receive any support or understanding from society. They will feel alone, misunderstood, and afraid to admit who they really are. Some will learn to wear a mask, to pretend they are not gay. They may even grow up, have families and kids of their own - and have gay love affairs on the side the whole time. This happens frequently in conservative religious societies where homosexuality is viewed as a "sin." When their wives and kids find out about their secret gay lovers, there is a great deal of pain and suffering for everyone involved, and the cycle just keeps repeating itself. The wife and children will (understandably) no longer trust the husband/father who had a gay lover all this time. The wife will probably divorce the husband, and then the kids will have no father. And ALL of this will happen because the child was not allowed to be openly gay in the first place, and did not have the support of society.

I don't think that people are looking at the long-term consequences of these laws. The laws are a band-aid solution to a problem which really requires skilled surgery and intensive care. The law is nothing but an appeal to populist ideals, and a distraction from more serious issues.

Yes, I understand that this is Russia's right to do as it pleases and that my opinion as a "foreigner" is not welcome or appreciated. But I think, over the next ten or twenty years, Russia will slowly come to understand what I have just said here. I guess Russia will have to follow its own path, and find out on its own. It took America and Europe many decades to get to the place where we decided to protect gay people and support them in society, and we are still evolving. Even with all of our protections and support in place, people are still discriminated against, beaten, and killed because they are gay. So even in the west, we have a long way to go.