Thread: Sochi Olympics and the Law against Gays in Russia +

Originally Posted by Deborski

I empathize with you that your heart was broken. I am really sorry that you had to go through that. But I disagree with your analogy that being gay is like a "temptation" or an "addiction" for chocolates or alcohol. People are born gay. It isn't something they can shake off. They are either gay, or they are not gay. And in my experience, forcing gay people into the closet, forcing them to lie about who they are in the first place, is what creates situations like the one you are describing! Why did this man try to pretend he was straight in the first place? If he lived in a society where he could freely be gay, he would have never dated you and he would never have broken your heart!

And I do not mean this as an attack on you, but when you say that being gay is a "vice" like addiction or a bad habit, you are judging! Personally, I do not care if people are gay or not. It makes no difference to me whatsoever. I am glad to know they are gay up front though, because then there are no guessing games and no one is lied to or hurt. To me, being gay is like being black or being white. It is what it is. A black person can't change the color of his skin, even in a society where being black means that he is discriminated against. And gay people can't change the fact that they are gay. Sure, they can be celibate, as Throbert suggested, but why should they have to? Why can't they be allowed to love and marry and enjoy all the same rights as heterosexual people have?

I do not support outlandish expressions of a pornographic nature, whether they are gay or straight. I could fully understand if Russia made laws against pornography in public, or showing pornography to kids. If the gay pride parades contained too much pornography, it would have been easy enough to just outlaw the porn. But why also outlaw rainbow flags? It makes no sense to me.

I'm not telling Russians how to run their country. I very much doubt that these laws will change. But at the same time, I am afraid - as a foreigner - to travel to Russia right now. I don't want to be accused of spreading "propaganda" if I happen to mention that my husband's uncle is gay, or if I wear rainbow earrings or something. So sure, Russia can keep its laws as is Russia's right as a sovereign country, but to expect that there will be no international reaction to that is naive.

He was Catholic, English and as posh as they come. It's a fatal mix for messed up sexuality. If it's not one thing it's another, as many poor women in this country have discovered... Public schools (meaning traditional English boarding schools) have a lot to answer for. In retrospect I can see that his sexuality was messed up and there is more to this story than my brief summary. I know why he acted the way he did. He loved me and he wanted a wife - that bit was genuine. We were a perfect couple in all other ways, complemented each other, had fun and a connection I never felt with anyone else. He was not fully gay, obviously... He didn't think I needed to know and didn't expect it to be an issue. Arrogant, but that's how it goes sometimes. Unfortunately he broke the computer and I ended up fixing it. You can work the rest out - did not set out to spy on him. Had that not happened I would be married to him today and might be none the wiser, as I am not the suspicious type... To his credit he was completely honest and up front when I confronted him, and full of regrets/ Although I was prepared to give him a second chance, there was an upper limit and the thoughts of this were extremely offputting.

On the flag thing: I have no problem whatever if a pub discreetly signals that it's gay by a small rainbow flag - as a pub near my house. There is no need for anyone else to go in there.

But I object that I had to travel to work in a gay-flagged bus last year! That's taking it too far. I happen to be Christian and although I think Christ would have had compassion with gays I don't want to support homosexuality either. Sitting in a gay flagged bus is forcing me to take part of a manifestation that I don't support.

I also object that this issue has totally hi-jacked the political parties on the left: Socialists, Communists (particularly) and Greens are obsessing over this issue at the expense of really important issues, like social welfare disappearing, public companies being sold out and much more. It only concerns a small minority, while selling out state housing affects half the population. While these parties are trying to prove their pro-gay credentials the country is being taken over by big business. The 1st May parade, from what I saw in Sweden last year was half Pride parade and this darn debate took up half the room of the traditional and extremely urgent issues.
It seems to me like this issue is a Trojan horse and deliberately blown out of all proportions.

BTW - have you noticed that all our Russian friends have dropped out of this discussion? I think there is a big cultural gap here.

Originally Posted by Deborski

Up to a point, I can take it. I'm a tough girl after being a TV reporter for all those years... but dealing with all the anger and hate and judgement gets to even me after a while, and so I can't imagine how it would feel if I were gay. If I were gay, I doubt I would mention it here at all.

Well, you know I like you and Lampada a lot. None of us have extreme views on this. We just happen to be on different sides of the absolute centre, so to speak.... We are arguing nicely, so there is no issue.

I've had too much of gay stuff coming my way lately and I thought Russia's law was refreshing. But the minute somebody starting giving gay people grief for a situation they can't control, I'd be completely against it. Particularly if using the law to do it. Saudi, Iran etc. Not my business, but I feel sorry for gay people there. The Nazis punished people for simply being gay.

I'm just saying, don't force this on regular people either, in the form of the kind of exaggerated agenda I was describing that I experienced in Sweden. I think Russians became aware that this was going on in some European countries and thought "no thanks". Edinaya Rossia picked up on it as an easy win with most of the population.

Originally Posted by Deborski

Would publicly stating that the law is wrong be an act of "propaganda"? If so, I would expect it is asking too much of people to come out and say they oppose it. However, some of my friends in Russia have told me privately that they think the laws go too far.

The law had nothing to do with what you say online - it's obvious they just want to curb the excesses of the gay movement in Europe and the USA. Do you think that the Russians believe that someone will come knocking on the door because they wrote on MasterRussian that the law is bad? As far as I can see Russians are bitching away with insane conspiracy theories and insults on politicians on blogs etc. Not to mention radical islamic, left wing and nazi sites. This seems to be going on uncurbed. Much worse stuff than complaining about a silly law. Besides, they don't have NSA and certainly not the manpower even if somebody cared.