Thread: Sochi Olympics and the Law against Gays in Russia +

Прочитав ещё раз сообщение Юрки #270, мне жаль что не могу дать 100 "Likes"! Конечно, я не соглашаюсь с Юркой во всём, и по-моему, он не понимает гомосексуализм настолько хорошо, как он считает. А мне нужно было 7-8 лет (т.е., с начала половой зрелости до студенческих дней), по меньшей мере, чтобы вполне понять СВОЮ гомосексуальную ориентацию. Поэтому не следует требовать, чтобы натуралы "переварили" такой сложный предмет за неделю!

Во всяком случае, Юрка сделал несколько отличных и зорких наблюдений. Мне особенно понравились:

Кроме того мы будем контролировать основную телевизионную картинку. Поэтому в кадр такие флаги не попадут, и мы этого не увидим в спортивных передачах во время трансляции соревнований.Иностранцы конечно будут снимать в певую очередь такие флага и скандалы (особенно, если про спорт им снимать будет неинтересно из-за отсутствия медалей у спортсменов их страны).

As it happens, some LGBT activists in the US have written, "Oh, we should send openly gay reporters and celebrities to do the TV coverage in Sochi -- Rachel Maddow, Anderson Cooper, Greg Louganis, Ellen DeGeneres..." But as Юрка correctly points out, this might please gays back in America, but the Russian public would never see the American-produced broadcasts with these gay American "celebrities" (most of whom are probably unknown in Russia anyway); they'll be watching the Russian-produced coverage of the Olympic Games.

Что касается наших геев, то я слышал о том, что они не едины во мнении. Значительная часть считает деятельность некоторых активистов вредной их сообществу.

Also very well said. I would imagine that most LGBT Russians are not very concerned about whether they have a civil right to kiss in public, but are interested in much more practical and basic questions like: "Where can I find a doctor/psychologist who is non-homophobic and who feels comfortable speaking with openly gay patients?" Or: "My parents found out that I'm LGBT and they won't talk to me. Can anyone recommend a sympathetic priest/rabbi who they might listen to?" Or: "My partner and I need a lawyer who has experience with giving legal advice to same-sex couples."

Ещё недавно у нас была уголовная статья, а сейчас о геях шутят в юмористических передачах типа "Comedy Club" на канале TNT. Вот так, через шутки, и меняется общественное мнение.

I've often said that the creators of South Park should get some kind of Nobel Prize for the brilliant way that they have attacked homophobia while making fun of gay people at the same time! (One of my favorites: The episode in which Satan visits heaven and asks, "God, do you think I should leave my boyfriend Chris and go back to Saddam Hussein?! I love them both and I can't decide...")

Россия проходит свой путь по изменению своего отношения к геям. Но на это нужно время.

YES!! And, who knows -- perhaps Russia (and Russian gays) will, in the long run, do a better job of it, and avoid some of the mistakes made by the LGBT Community in America. For example, I would argue that the AIDS epidemic among homo/bi men in the States might have been a hundred times smaller -- literally, deaths in the 4 figures, not the 6 figures -- if our gay culture had developed along a more gradual and conservative path. Instead, there was a radical ideology of Sex-Without-Limits, as a result of which HIV (which is, in fact, not very easy to pass from one person to another) spread very quickly.

Америка оказывает медвежью услугу гей-сообществу...

The only thing I disagree with is "Америка оказывает..." -- maybe you should have written "Американские гей-активисты оказывают..." I mean, for the vast majority of Americans, this is a пофиг controversy. And Obama is talking about it mainly to make himself look good in the eyes of progressive/Democratic voters, IMHO. (From a human-rights perspective, Russia's so-called "No Promo Homo" law is obviously much less alarming than, for example, the so-called "Kill the Gays" legislation in Uganda -- so if a Republican were in the White House now, I doubt that the Russian law would be getting much attention.)

Instead, there was a radical ideology of Sex-Without-Limits

I know the word маятник, but I'm not sure how to say "the pendulum had over-swung" -- does маятник качнулся слишком далеко sound okay? Anyway, I believe the pendulum is swinging back in America. LGBT culture has lost a lot of its ultra-radicalism; something like 25% of gays vote Republican; and very gradually, some religious conservatives have become willing to say: "Maybe God made you gay, but that doesn't mean He made you to be a total whore -- if you're going to be gay, Jesus wants you to be monogamous!!"

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

The notice explains that "propaganda of homosexuality" can take many forms -- among them, the wearing of яркая одежда, "bright clothing"! Also note the filled-in blank with the precise number of homosexuals in the building (1)!

That reminds me of the kinds of scare tactics the McCarthyists used during America's "red scare" - when they were persecuting supposed "communists."





Here is the text of the now-infamous "How to Spot a Communist" pamphlet which was circulated in the 1950's.

How to Spot a Communist

Events of recent years have made it obvious that there is no fool-proof way of detecting a Communist. The Communist individual is no longer a "type" exemplified by the bearded and coarse revolutionary with time bomb in briefcase. U.S. Communists come from all walks of life, profess all faiths, and exercise all trades and professions. In addition, the Communist Party, USA, has made concerted efforts to go underground for the purpose of infiltration.

If there is no fool-proof system in spotting a Communist, there are, fortunately, indications that may give him away. These indications are often subtle but always present, for the Communist, by reason of his "faith" must act and talk along certain lines.

While a preference for long sentences is common to most Communist writing, a distinct vocabulary provides the more easily recognized feature of the "Communist Language."

Even a superficial reading of an article written by a Communist or a conversation with one will probably reveal the use of some of the following expressions: integrative thinking, vanguard, comrade, hootenanny, chauvinism, book-burning, syncretistic faith, bourgeois-nationalism, jingoism, colonialism, hooliganism, ruling class, progressive, demagogy, dialectical, witch-hunt, reactionary, exploitation, oppressive, materialist. This list, selected at random, could be extended almost indefinitely.

While all of the above expressions are part of the English language, their use by Communists is infinitely more frequent than by the general public.

In addition to these very general principles common to Communist tactics, a number of specific issues have been part of the Communist arsenal for a long period of time. These issues are raised not only by Communist appeals to the public, but also by the individual Party member or sympathizer who is a product of his Communist environment. They include: "McCarthyism," violation of civil rights, racial or religious discrimination, immigration laws, anti-subversive legislation, any legislation concerning labor unions, the military budget, "peace."

While showing standard opposition to certain standard issues, the U.S. Communist has traditionally identified himself with certain activities in the hope of furthering his ultimate purposes. Such hobbies as "folk dancing" and "folk music" have been traditionally allied with the Communist movement in the United States.

A study such as this can lead to only one certain conclusion: There is no sure-fire way of spotting a Communist. The principle difficulty involved is the distinction between the person who merely dissents in the good old American tradition and the one who condemns for the purpose of abolishing that tradition.

In attempting to find the answer to the question: "Is this man a Communist?" a checklist such as this can prove helpful, although in itself it cannot provide the answer:
Does the individual use unusual language? ("Communist Language")
Does he stubbornly cling to Marxist ideals without being willing to question them?
Does he condemn our American institutions and praise those of Communist countries?
Does he pick on any event, even the most insignificant occurrences in this country for his criticism?
Is he secretive about certain of his contacts?
Does he belong to groups exploiting controversial subjects?

Above all, the approach to the problem of discovering Communists must be detached and completely free from prejudice. Using some of the clues mentioned in this study in connection with a factual approach provides the best system at present of spotting a Communist.

And, as Lampada alludes - it's the same tactics used during the middle ages when "witches" were the ones being persecuted.

Humankind has always had a penchant for scapegoating those who are "different." And the best way to do that, is to spread terrifying lies about them: Witches can place curses on you! Communists will brainwash you! Gay people will turn you into a homosexual!

I wish we would just evolve already. But, I am not holding my breath.

By the way, the idea came to me that maybe the best strategy for Russian LGBT activists is to spread a rumor that homosexuality was originally invented in Russia -- just like radio, Sputnik, TV, the Internet, and elephants -- until Americans STOLE THE IDEA AND TOOK ALL THE CREDIT!!!

Россия, родина гей-слонов!!!

Originally Posted by Deborski

That reminds me of the kinds of scare tactics the McCarthyists used during America's "red scare" - when they were persecuting supposed "communists."





Here is the text of the now-infamous "How to Spot a Communist" pamphlet which was circulated in the 1950's.



And, as Lampada alludes - it's the same tactics used during the middle ages when "witches" were the ones being persecuted.

Humankind has always had a penchant for scapegoating those who are "different." And the best way to do that, is to spread terrifying lies about them. Witches can place curses on you! Communists will brainwash you! Gay people will turn you into a homosexual!

I wish we would just evolve already. But, I am not holding my breath.

Deb, commies are a different story. One is not born commie. One can willingly stop being a commie. Commies are particularly responsible for certain crimes against humanity in the past. Doesn't sound like gay people, does it?

Originally Posted by Eric C.

Deb, commies are a different story. One is not born commie. One can willingly stop being a commie. Commies are particularly responsible for certain crimes against humanity in the past. Doesn't sound like gay people, does it?

The point of my post was actually that the scare tactics are similar. I wasn't saying that gay people are just like commies, or that commies are just like witches, for that matter...

And as far as that goes, most of the so-called "commies" persecuted during the McCarthyist era were not really communists anyway! Or didn't you watch "The Majestic"?

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

I know the word маятник, but I'm not sure how to say "the pendulum had over-swung" -- does маятник качнулся слишком далеко sound okay?

it's ok

It's ok, but "слишком сильно" might be even better.

А листовка похожа на самодеятельность какого-то начальника жилищной конторы
Отключим газ!

И пожалуйста, американцы! миленькие, родненькие: этих только не присылайте:
orig-4655381.jpg

Originally Posted by maxmixiv

А листовка похожа на самодеятельность какого-то начальника жилищной конторы
Отключим газ!

А также плакаты времен Второй мировой - "Будь бдительнее! Болтун - находка для врага!"

Originally Posted by Deborski

And, as Lampada alludes - it's the same tactics used during the middle ages when "witches" were the ones being persecuted.

I wish we would just evolve already. But, I am not holding my breath.

This really looks like mediaevalism, right.

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

I would guess that this is some sort of malicious joke against a resident of the building who "looks gay", and that the notice wasn't posted in ANY other buildings in the city.

Does the source say it could be a joke? Everything is possible in Russia: it could be a joke, but it could also be a vigilant building manager too.

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

I would guess that this is some sort of malicious joke against a resident of the building who "looks gay", and that the notice wasn't posted in ANY other buildings in the city.

According to the media, these notices were placed on numerous buildings across the city of Rostov-Na-Donu by prankers and contain random numbers of deviants found. The phone numbers mentioned in the notice belong to the police and one of the city goverment officials.
The city's administration has claimed that they have never issued such notices, which is believable because the goverment notices would at least have the city herald on them. To those who have found such notices on their houses it was recommended to report it to the police.

So, I presume this arrogant provocation was done by the prankers who intended to worsen the reputation of our country (not for the first time, actually) and maybe even belonged to an LGBT organization themselves.

Originally Posted by Lampada

Безграмотно! "в течении многих лет".

So, I presume this arrogant provocation was done by the prankers who intended to worsen the reputation of our country (not for the first time, actually) and maybe even belonged to an LGBT organization themselves.

И зачем вам в Америке неграмотные русские геи?
Зачем вам провокаторы - не спрашиваю.

Originally Posted by Юрка

И зачем вам в Америке неграмотные русские геи?
Зачем вам провокаторы не спрашиваю.

Ты запутался: эту безграмотную прокламацию не геи соорудили, а гомофобы.

How the IRS just handed gay marriage a huge win


"On Thursday, the Internal Revenue Service ruled that, for tax purposes, same-sex couples legally married in any state are married, so far as the federal government is concerned, no matter where they live."
" And the ruling is retroactive, meaning married gay couples can re-file their taxes back to 2010, but don't have to if it isn't advantageous to do so."

Originally Posted by Lampada

Ты запутался: эту безграмотную прокламацию не геи соорудили, а гомофобы.

Логичнее предположить, что кто-то работает под гомофобов. Сами сочинили, сами сфотографировали, сами возмутились. Америка же платит, чего ж не поиграться.

Originally Posted by DrBaldhead

these notices were placed on numerous buildings across the city of Rostov-Na-Donu by prankers and contain random numbers of deviants found. The phone numbers mentioned in the notice belong to the police and one of the city goverment officials.
The city's administration has claimed that they have never issued such notices, which is believable because the goverment notices would at least have the city herald on them. To those who have found such notices on their houses it was recommended to report it to the police.

So, I presume this arrogant provocation was done by the prankers who intended to worsen the reputation of our country (not for the first time, actually) and maybe even belonged to an LGBT organization themselves.

I am relieved to hear it is not a government initiative. It's still a terrible thing, and extremely malicious, but at least it's only an isolated group of troublemakers and not the police themselves. )))

Originally Posted by Юрка

Логичнее предположить, что кто-то работает под гомофобов. Сами сочинили, сами сфотографировали, сами возмутились.

Come to think of it, it is quite believable. Most of the human rights organizations in Russia are much more interested in publicity and financial help to spend for their selfish ends rather than in someone's rights.

Originally Posted by DrBaldhead

So, I presume this arrogant provocation was done by the prankers who intended to worsen the reputation of our country (not for the first time, actually) and maybe even belonged to an LGBT organization themselves.

There have certainly been some cases of that in the US -- self-described "LGBT activists" who write graffiti like Kill the faggots! on their own cars, then call the police to report a homophobic crime.

Originally Posted by Deborski

Communists will brainwash you! Gay people will turn you into a homosexual!

Speaking of gays AND communists, here in the States we've just observed the 50th anniversary of Martin Luther King's "I Have a Dream" speech. And it's worth remembering that one of the main organizers of King's 1963 "March On Washington" was a guy named Bayard Rustin -- who was black, gay, and (at one time) a card-carrying member of the КПСША.

Shortly before the march in August 1963, ultra-right-wing Senator Strom Thurmond denounced Rustin as a "homosexual and Communist". In actual fact, Rustin had become disenchanted with Stalin and left the Communist Party in 1941 -- and by the 1960s, he was strongly anti-Soviet, arguing that the USSR's policies in Africa were imperialist, and no better than the imperialism of the West. But he never made any secret of his homosexuality (and he had been arrested for a "gay three-way" with two other men, in a parked car at night, back in 1953). For which reason many in the black civil rights movement tried to keep him out of public view, and probably 90% of Americans don't know his name, despite his distinguished career in the civil-rights movement.