Thread: Occupy Wall Street around the world.... Your thoughts and feelings about it!

"Since 1991 the CFTC has given secret exemptions from hedging regulations to 19 major banks and market participants, allowing them to accumulate essentially unlimited positions. ^[10] These exemptions were originally given in secret, coming to light only as the 2008 financial crisis unfolded and Congress requested information on market participants" Commodity Futures Trading Commission - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So really, what everyone is saying here is that people in the USA and Western Europe who are feeling oppressed and cheated should not have the same opportunity to protest as others, just because these countries are not considered by Western media to be evil dictatorships.

Obviously the Americans who started the protest feel seriously wronged... their living standard is bad ant they have no opportunities, all the while the Fed is supporting greedy banks and financing wars that are of no benefit to regular citizens...

SHould they not have the right to express their views on that?
Seems to me, more people have been arrested in the US over this, than in the recent demos in Belarus, just as a comparison. Both Belarussians, Syrians, Europeans and Americans should be able to have a peaceful demonstration if they want.

In countries like Belarus, both the US and some European countries support the opposition financially and with lots of material and leadership training.

Imagine if China, Russia or someone else started pouring money over the Wall Street occupiers...

I just want the little neo-con gang here (you know who you are) to have that perspective.

Originally Posted by Hanna

So really, what everyone is saying here is that people in the USA and Western Europe who are feeling oppressed and cheated should not have the same opportunity to protest as others, just because these countries are not considered by Western media to be evil dictatorships.

Obviously the Americans who started the protest feel seriously wronged... their living standard is bad ant they have no opportunities, all the while the Fed is supporting greedy banks and financing wars that are of no benefit to regular citizens...

SHould they not have the right to express their views on that?
Seems to me, more people have been arrested in the US over this, than in the recent demos in Belarus, just as a comparison. Both Belarussians, Syrians, Europeans and Americans should be able to have a peaceful demonstration if they want.

In countries like Belarus, both the US and some European countries support the opposition financially and with lots of material and leadership training.

Imagine if China, Russia or someone else started pouring money over the Wall Street occupiers...

I just want the little neo-con gang here (you know who you are) to have that perspective.

I'm not clear where in this chain anyone said that the protestors cannot protest. I live in America - I totally support their right to protest.

Scott

Meanwhile, WWIII is closer and closer:

In post-Soviet Tajikistan, for example, a predominately Muslim country, the government says it is concerned about the threat from radical Islam. It now has a "parenting" law that restricts the ability of young people under the age of 18 to attend mosques. There also is a campaign against women wearing the hijab and men growing beards.

A senior State Department official says the United States is concerned.

"What we said to our friends in the (Tajik) government is that these kinds of actions, first of all, undercut the ability of people to worship - their freedom to worship. But they also risk driving a lot of people underground and basically can be destabilizing," the official said.

Could Central Asia have an 'Arab Spring?' – CNN Security Clearance - CNN.com Blogs

So basically State Department says that there should not be barriers for people to become as radical islamic as they want. Do you know why?
Because the US rulers organize the creation of a large radical islamic state in Northern Africa, Middle East & Central Asia which would start World War 3 in the name of Allah & which would help the US to get out of the debt crisis they are in. Again.
About the U.S. Economy During WWII | eHow.com
The Post War Economy: 1945-1960

For Libya job is done already:
New Libya to introduce 'radical Islamic law'.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...lamic-law.html

So basically State Department says that there should not be barriers for people to become as radical islamic as they want. Do you know why?
Because the US rulers organize the creation of a large radical islamic state in Northern Africa, Middle East & Central Asia which would start World War 3 in the name of Allah & which would help the US to get out of the debt crisis they are in. Again.

That's just a thick trolling, isn't it?

Revealed – the capitalist network that runs the world

Revealed – the capitalist network that runs the world - physics-math - 19 October 2011 - New Scientist

Scott

Originally Posted by fortheether

Revealed – the capitalist network that runs the world

Revealed – the capitalist network that runs the world - physics-math - 19 October 2011 - New Scientist

Scott

An interesting quote:
"If one [company] suffers distress," says Glattfelder, "this propagates."

Now, when they've finally discovered it, what are they going to do about it?

Crucially, by identifying the architecture of global economic power, the analysis could help make it more stable. By finding the vulnerable aspects of the system, economists can suggest measures to prevent future collapses spreading through the entire economy. Glattfelder says we may need global anti-trust rules, which now exist only at national level, to limit over-connection among TNCs. Sugihara says the analysis suggests one possible solution: firms should be taxed for excess interconnectivity to discourage this risk.

Taxation won't help with TNCs - they simply move their assets to a more tax-friendly country. And I'm even ready to believe that:
the super-entity is unlikely to be the intentional result of a conspiracy to rule the world. "Such structures are common in nature," says Sugihara.

The question remains - the whole world's economy rotates around these 1500 companies. How can anyone de-centralize it? What must be done? Or we should all agree and accept the fact that our lives and the lives of our children will depend on this limited number of companies? Now and forever?

OWS in Chicago (a photo essay)

Blog: OWS in Chicago (a photo essay)

Scott

the super-entity is unlikely to be the intentional result of a conspiracy to rule the world. "Such structures are common in nature," says Sugihara.

In the connectivity analysis, it seems to me that the researchers have done a deductive work, that can be verified. This is information.

In the other conclusion, there is no support either way, nor in any way, no evidence for any conclusion about intentions, motivations, conspiracies, or anything of that sort. It is disinformation. Proving or disproving intention or motivation requires different types of evidence than the authors have presented.

Demonstrators at Wall Street have complained of thefts of assorted items such as cameras, phones, and laptops. Thieves also stole $2500 of donations that were stored in a makeshift kitchen.

Which are all made by evil corporations:

Behind the curtain he's in the 1%?


OWS Supporter Michael Moore Lies on National Television About His Wealth: No I'm Not Worth Millions | NewsBusters.org

Scott

Originally Posted by nulle

Which are all made by evil corporations:

Ever met someone who was born without the help of branded Durable Medical Equipment? Ever met someone who's baby derriere never touched the synthetic surface of some Huggies? Ever met someone who was able to grow in their human teeth without ingesting some Gerber baby food or formula? Have you ever met someone whose family made all their own clothes, grew their own food, maintained their own home, didn't deal with landlords, taxmen, utility companies, building and territorial authorities?

It's great that you can draw arrows to protesters to try to undermine their message.. But have you ever really met one person who didn't live in The Matrix? Mind you, you're on a computer right now; within twenty feet of you are names like Apple, Pentium, MSI, and the like. The plastic over every key you strike on your keyboard was tooled in a vacuous-vaulted factory, out of molten synthetic petroleum plastic, by a huge company with a huge name.

I'm sorry, but do the conservatives and those who criticize this movement live entirely off-the-grid, and don't feed into these monsters themselves?

No, of course not. The difference is, one group is standing up and trying to make it known that this is not a state (the state of corporate enslavement) that we wish to help maintain.

The naysayers, on the other hand, offer us the following solution to our problems:

...

Originally Posted by kidkboom

Ever met someone who was born without the help of branded Durable Medical Equipment? Ever met someone who's baby derriere never touched the synthetic surface of some Huggies? Ever met someone who was able to grow in their human teeth without ingesting some Gerber baby food or formula? Have you ever met someone whose family made all their own clothes, grew their own food, maintained their own home, didn't deal with landlords, taxmen, utility companies, building and territorial authorities?

It's great that you can draw arrows to protesters to try to undermine their message.. But have you ever really met one person who didn't live in The Matrix? Mind you, you're on a computer right now; within twenty feet of you are names like Apple, Pentium, MSI, and the like. The plastic over every key you strike on your keyboard was tooled in a vacuous-vaulted factory, out of molten synthetic petroleum plastic, by a huge company with a huge name.

I'm sorry, but do the conservatives and those who criticize this movement live entirely off-the-grid, and don't feed into these monsters themselves?

No, of course not. The difference is, one group is standing up and trying to make it known that this is not a state (the state of corporate enslavement) that we wish to help maintain.

The naysayers, on the other hand, offer us the following solution to our problems:

...

Shouldn't you ask yourself why you too also feed into the monster "within twenty feet of you are names like Apple, Pentium, MSI, and the like. The plastic over every key you strike on your keyboard was tooled in a vacuous-vaulted factory, out of molten synthetic petroleum plastic, by a huge company with a huge name." that you criticize?

What is the Occupiers solution for not maintaining the state of corporate enslavement? Standing in a park? Hoping that their student loans will be excused?


I do offer you a solution - drop out. Get a piece of land and farm it. OK?

As for the USA, I think that term limits for congress (both houses) would be a big help to solve the corruption that is devastating the country.

Scott

Originally Posted by fortheether

Shouldn't you ask yourself why you too also feed into the monster "within twenty feet of you are names like Apple, Pentium, MSI, and the like. The plastic over every key you strike on your keyboard was tooled in a vacuous-vaulted factory, out of molten synthetic petroleum plastic, by a huge company with a huge name." that you criticize?

What is the Occupiers solution for not maintaining the state of corporate enslavement? Standing in a park? Hoping that their student loans will be excused?


I do offer you a solution - drop out. Get a piece of land and farm it. OK?

As for the USA, I think that term limits for congress (both houses) would be a big help to solve the corruption that is devastating the country.

Scott

I do ask myself why I feed into the monster. I willingly step out of just about every sphere of these monsters that I can. I don't own a TV, and I've never owned a car, and I got rid of my cell phone years ago. And actually, a friend of mine and I are shopping for a bit of land right now.. though the obstacles that the authorities place in the way are numerous and staggering.

Scott, I agree with you about the term limits, that this would be an improvement. I personally think a more drastic change needs to happen, however, if we're going to stain the paper with ink at this point in history, and not merely a mark of graphite that the next several years will wear off.

Standing in a park, talking about change without an exact plan.. Sounds familiar. I think something like that once happened at a concert on farmland in New York in the 60s. The authorities were pissed then, too, but they didn't have the eggs to start shooting people, like they did Scott Olsen. No, back then, they just flew over in helicopters.. As Tom Robbins once said, "We used to have a crime problem in this country. Now we have a cop problem in this country."

Of course, in the long run, the helicopters weren't enough.. internal intelligence services had to introduce foreign heroin to the domestic market in large enough amounts to poison-pill the entire generation of those we now know as "hippies".. this cleared the way for the coming of the warmongering 80s and the warpath of ronald rayguns..

So, how does this one end up? Instead of getting a small % of support from the general populace, we find our fellow man so jaded as to brush us off *completely*, and help to remove any chance we have of making a change?

If the occupy folks can't convince you, one average American, that they have a reason to be upset.. what chance do any of us have to change things?

Do you really think limiting congressional terms will make tomorrow any different from yesterday? Because to me, it feels like plugging the Hoover dam with a piece of gum..

Originally Posted by kidkboom

I do ask myself why I feed into the monster. I willingly step out of just about every sphere of these monsters that I can. I don't own a TV, and I've never owned a car, and I got rid of my cell phone years ago. And actually, a friend of mine and I are shopping for a bit of land right now.. though the obstacles that the authorities place in the way are numerous and staggering.

Scott, I agree with you about the term limits, that this would be an improvement. I personally think a more drastic change needs to happen, however, if we're going to stain the paper with ink at this point in history, and not merely a mark of graphite that the next several years will wear off.

Standing in a park, talking about change without an exact plan.. Sounds familiar. I think something like that once happened at a concert on farmland in New York in the 60s. The authorities were pissed then, too, but they didn't have the eggs to start shooting people, like they did Scott Olsen. No, back then, they just flew over in helicopters.. As Tom Robbins once said, "We used to have a crime problem in this country. Now we have a cop problem in this country."

Of course, in the long run, the helicopters weren't enough.. internal intelligence services had to introduce foreign heroin to the domestic market in large enough amounts to poison-pill the entire generation of those we now know as "hippies".. this cleared the way for the coming of the warmongering 80s and the warpath of ronald rayguns..

So, how does this one end up? Instead of getting a small % of support from the general populace, we find our fellow man so jaded as to brush us off *completely*, and help to remove any chance we have of making a change?

If the occupy folks can't convince you, one average American, that they have a reason to be upset.. what chance do any of us have to change things?

Do you really think limiting congressional terms will make tomorrow any different from yesterday? Because to me, it feels like plugging the Hoover dam with a piece of gum..

Kidkboom - I applaud you for backing up your words with your actions and not feeding into the "monster". I suspect most of the Occupiers don't "walk the walk". Of course I see a lot of people that are upset. What changes do you want to make though?

I don't see that congressional term limits would make a difference right away but some of the scum that have been there for years and draining the system would be term limited out and new blood put in their place.

Scott

I'm telling you, it's always about the conspiracy. The evil corporations wanted to get some extra steam out of the tank, so they organized these "protests" with no goal and no leader to get people tired, disillusioned, and distracted from the real fight for their rights. That was clearly masterminded by the CIA/FBI who serve the evil government sponsored by the evil corporations. The CIA/FBI had now clearly identified those who surfaced and started watching them more closely (aka the Big Brother [TM]).

PEOPLE! DON'T BE THE TEAMMATES OF THE CIA/FBI/EVIL CORPORATIONS! DON'T ATTEND THE WALL STREET GATHERINGS! STAY UNDERCOVER AND PREPARE FOR THE REAL FIGHT AGAINST THE CAPITALISM!

Here's what you can do (YES, UNITED WE CAN!):

A war causes Revolution. Do steps that could cause a war. For example: help your local terrorists freedom fighters to organize some devastating acts of terror justice to the capitalistic system of exploitation in your local neighborhood. Let the fallen Two Towers of Evil in New York commemorate the brightest example of how a country could be pushed into a war which caused devastating effects to its economy Exploitation System. Salute the unnamed heroes who didn't go to the Wall Street puppet show, but acted! You could be one of them and make a real difference to the world history.

LIBERTY!111 EQUALITY!1111 FRATERNITY!111111

"Arise, you prisoners of starvation!
Arise, you wretched of the earth!
For justice thunders condemnation:
A better world's in birth!
No more tradition's chains shall bind us,
Arise you slaves, no more in thrall!
The earth shall rise on new foundations:
We have been nought, we shall be all!
'Tis the final conflict,
Let each stand in his place.
The international soviet
Shall be the human race
'Tis the final conflict,
Let each stand in his place.
The international working class
Shall be the human race"

Крокодил, в России тебя бы упекли по 282-й ст.

Кстати, у нас и само понятие классовой борьбы тоже уже под этой статьёй - Медвед разъяснил непонятливым. Ждём "закрытия" КПРФ.

BTW, I googled, it appears USA still have an its own Communist party. Do they participate in OWS?

kidkboom, you misunderstand. Me at least. I do not mock these people. After all, if they are there they had some reason to be there. Even if that reason was simply to have some fun - they've a right to do so. But what they miss is the fact that if their demands are satisfied their lives would really turn to worse. USA's a very rich country. Yes, most of its wealth is concentrated in the hands of those from that 1 percent, but still even the unemployed get some allowance (and its sheer size would make a peasant in some third-world country really really happy), your police is not corrupt, well not as much as the police in my country. You have some social programs which help the poor. You have probably the lowest interest rate for loans in the world, et cetera, et cetera. Yes, America is robbing the rest of the world for profits, that's a sad fact, but these people - what will happen to them if all of the above disappears? Whould they find absolute chaos better?
I simply cannot imagine how these protests can help anybody with anything. It's a choice between things being bad as they are now and things being far worse. This mob, forgive me saying so, is uncapable of running the country. They're even uncapable of cleaning their own shit from the park.

I am in London temporarily. Here, the occupiers have taken over a square that is right outside St Paul's cathedral which is one of Anglican christianity's main churches. The reason they chose that particular space is because it is right outside the London Stock Exchange.

This set off an interesting conflict: The church is split about what to do with the protesters. Apparently they are losing USD 35 000 per day in lost ticket sales (there is an entrance fee for this particular cathedral....) That is because they have decided they can't allow visitors to the cathedral while the protesters are outside (for "health and safety" reasons).

The protestors have started up a regular little tent city outside St Pauls. Media and the bishops are mainly screaming for the "riff-raff" to stop blocking the cathedral for tourists and decent people. There is a media campaign to smear the protestors in every imaginable way.

While most regular people who are aware of what the bankers have been up to.... are behind the protesters (at least people I know).

But the question is "What would Jesus do?"
I am guessing from examples like Jesus throwing out the the money changers from the temple, and the things that Jesus said about rich people... that he would in fact support the protesters and be willing for them to stay outside the church! They are serving Mammon for sure - idol worship..... That's my interpretation anyway.

One minister at St Pauls had the same opinion and quit his job because he was upset about the Church's position in this question. He felt like the Church ought to support the protestors, or at least remain neutral.
A brave and principled man!

This also opens the interesting question about how involved religion
should be with politics.

The "Russia Today" TV channel has really good coverage of the Wall Street situation - for entertainment and some challenging ideas, check the "Keiser Report" program.

I just wonder how a serious grown-up woman that does have certain skills, a good job and live in welfare could say any BS like this. You know what? Take out one protester, teach him/her what you can do, recommend him/her to your boss as your replacement, then take his/her poster and leave for the various Wall Street crowds. That's quite the way to satisfy everyone, I guess.