Thread: Occupy Wall Street around the world.... Your thoughts and feelings about it!

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

Seriously, the "snapshot" of the OWS chick getting arrested has to be the most stagiest-est staged photo in the history of staged photos...

+1 Though I have to admit that they've picked up a fine looking chick. The stupid cop's face in the background adds something too.

Occupy Wall Street - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

People, have care:

Originally Posted by wikipedia

On October 6, Brookfield Office Properties, which owns Zuccotti Park, issued a statement that "Sanitation is a growing concern... Normally the park is cleaned and inspected every weeknight[, but] because the protesters refuse to cooperate ... the park has not been cleaned since Friday, September 16 and as a result, sanitary conditions have reached unacceptable levels."

McDonald's got what it deserves

Originally Posted by wikipedia

Many protesters have taken to using the bathrooms of nearby business establishments; one nearby McDonald's restaurant "has become the movement's unofficial latrine"

And this is rather symbolic, isn't it?

Originally Posted by wikipedia

Demonstrators at Wall Street have complained of thefts of assorted items such as cameras, phones, and laptops. Thieves also stole $2500 of donations that were stored in a makeshift kitchen.

Demonstrators at Wall Street have complained of thefts of assorted items such as cameras, phones, and laptops. Thieves also stole $2500 of donations that were stored in a makeshift kitchen.

Which are all made by evil corporations:

Behind the curtain he's in the 1%?


OWS Supporter Michael Moore Lies on National Television About His Wealth: No I'm Not Worth Millions | NewsBusters.org

Scott

I'm telling you, it's always about the conspiracy. The evil corporations wanted to get some extra steam out of the tank, so they organized these "protests" with no goal and no leader to get people tired, disillusioned, and distracted from the real fight for their rights. That was clearly masterminded by the CIA/FBI who serve the evil government sponsored by the evil corporations. The CIA/FBI had now clearly identified those who surfaced and started watching them more closely (aka the Big Brother [TM]).

PEOPLE! DON'T BE THE TEAMMATES OF THE CIA/FBI/EVIL CORPORATIONS! DON'T ATTEND THE WALL STREET GATHERINGS! STAY UNDERCOVER AND PREPARE FOR THE REAL FIGHT AGAINST THE CAPITALISM!

Here's what you can do (YES, UNITED WE CAN!):

A war causes Revolution. Do steps that could cause a war. For example: help your local terrorists freedom fighters to organize some devastating acts of terror justice to the capitalistic system of exploitation in your local neighborhood. Let the fallen Two Towers of Evil in New York commemorate the brightest example of how a country could be pushed into a war which caused devastating effects to its economy Exploitation System. Salute the unnamed heroes who didn't go to the Wall Street puppet show, but acted! You could be one of them and make a real difference to the world history.

LIBERTY!111 EQUALITY!1111 FRATERNITY!111111

"Arise, you prisoners of starvation!
Arise, you wretched of the earth!
For justice thunders condemnation:
A better world's in birth!
No more tradition's chains shall bind us,
Arise you slaves, no more in thrall!
The earth shall rise on new foundations:
We have been nought, we shall be all!
'Tis the final conflict,
Let each stand in his place.
The international soviet
Shall be the human race
'Tis the final conflict,
Let each stand in his place.
The international working class
Shall be the human race"

Крокодил, в России тебя бы упекли по 282-й ст.

Кстати, у нас и само понятие классовой борьбы тоже уже под этой статьёй - Медвед разъяснил непонятливым. Ждём "закрытия" КПРФ.

BTW, I googled, it appears USA still have an its own Communist party. Do they participate in OWS?

Originally Posted by nulle

Which are all made by evil corporations:

Ever met someone who was born without the help of branded Durable Medical Equipment? Ever met someone who's baby derriere never touched the synthetic surface of some Huggies? Ever met someone who was able to grow in their human teeth without ingesting some Gerber baby food or formula? Have you ever met someone whose family made all their own clothes, grew their own food, maintained their own home, didn't deal with landlords, taxmen, utility companies, building and territorial authorities?

It's great that you can draw arrows to protesters to try to undermine their message.. But have you ever really met one person who didn't live in The Matrix? Mind you, you're on a computer right now; within twenty feet of you are names like Apple, Pentium, MSI, and the like. The plastic over every key you strike on your keyboard was tooled in a vacuous-vaulted factory, out of molten synthetic petroleum plastic, by a huge company with a huge name.

I'm sorry, but do the conservatives and those who criticize this movement live entirely off-the-grid, and don't feed into these monsters themselves?

No, of course not. The difference is, one group is standing up and trying to make it known that this is not a state (the state of corporate enslavement) that we wish to help maintain.

The naysayers, on the other hand, offer us the following solution to our problems:

...

kidkboom, you misunderstand. Me at least. I do not mock these people. After all, if they are there they had some reason to be there. Even if that reason was simply to have some fun - they've a right to do so. But what they miss is the fact that if their demands are satisfied their lives would really turn to worse. USA's a very rich country. Yes, most of its wealth is concentrated in the hands of those from that 1 percent, but still even the unemployed get some allowance (and its sheer size would make a peasant in some third-world country really really happy), your police is not corrupt, well not as much as the police in my country. You have some social programs which help the poor. You have probably the lowest interest rate for loans in the world, et cetera, et cetera. Yes, America is robbing the rest of the world for profits, that's a sad fact, but these people - what will happen to them if all of the above disappears? Whould they find absolute chaos better?
I simply cannot imagine how these protests can help anybody with anything. It's a choice between things being bad as they are now and things being far worse. This mob, forgive me saying so, is uncapable of running the country. They're even uncapable of cleaning their own shit from the park.

Originally Posted by kidkboom

Ever met someone who was born without the help of branded Durable Medical Equipment? Ever met someone who's baby derriere never touched the synthetic surface of some Huggies? Ever met someone who was able to grow in their human teeth without ingesting some Gerber baby food or formula? Have you ever met someone whose family made all their own clothes, grew their own food, maintained their own home, didn't deal with landlords, taxmen, utility companies, building and territorial authorities?

It's great that you can draw arrows to protesters to try to undermine their message.. But have you ever really met one person who didn't live in The Matrix? Mind you, you're on a computer right now; within twenty feet of you are names like Apple, Pentium, MSI, and the like. The plastic over every key you strike on your keyboard was tooled in a vacuous-vaulted factory, out of molten synthetic petroleum plastic, by a huge company with a huge name.

I'm sorry, but do the conservatives and those who criticize this movement live entirely off-the-grid, and don't feed into these monsters themselves?

No, of course not. The difference is, one group is standing up and trying to make it known that this is not a state (the state of corporate enslavement) that we wish to help maintain.

The naysayers, on the other hand, offer us the following solution to our problems:

...

Shouldn't you ask yourself why you too also feed into the monster "within twenty feet of you are names like Apple, Pentium, MSI, and the like. The plastic over every key you strike on your keyboard was tooled in a vacuous-vaulted factory, out of molten synthetic petroleum plastic, by a huge company with a huge name." that you criticize?

What is the Occupiers solution for not maintaining the state of corporate enslavement? Standing in a park? Hoping that their student loans will be excused?


I do offer you a solution - drop out. Get a piece of land and farm it. OK?

As for the USA, I think that term limits for congress (both houses) would be a big help to solve the corruption that is devastating the country.

Scott

Originally Posted by fortheether

Shouldn't you ask yourself why you too also feed into the monster "within twenty feet of you are names like Apple, Pentium, MSI, and the like. The plastic over every key you strike on your keyboard was tooled in a vacuous-vaulted factory, out of molten synthetic petroleum plastic, by a huge company with a huge name." that you criticize?

What is the Occupiers solution for not maintaining the state of corporate enslavement? Standing in a park? Hoping that their student loans will be excused?


I do offer you a solution - drop out. Get a piece of land and farm it. OK?

As for the USA, I think that term limits for congress (both houses) would be a big help to solve the corruption that is devastating the country.

Scott

I do ask myself why I feed into the monster. I willingly step out of just about every sphere of these monsters that I can. I don't own a TV, and I've never owned a car, and I got rid of my cell phone years ago. And actually, a friend of mine and I are shopping for a bit of land right now.. though the obstacles that the authorities place in the way are numerous and staggering.

Scott, I agree with you about the term limits, that this would be an improvement. I personally think a more drastic change needs to happen, however, if we're going to stain the paper with ink at this point in history, and not merely a mark of graphite that the next several years will wear off.

Standing in a park, talking about change without an exact plan.. Sounds familiar. I think something like that once happened at a concert on farmland in New York in the 60s. The authorities were pissed then, too, but they didn't have the eggs to start shooting people, like they did Scott Olsen. No, back then, they just flew over in helicopters.. As Tom Robbins once said, "We used to have a crime problem in this country. Now we have a cop problem in this country."

Of course, in the long run, the helicopters weren't enough.. internal intelligence services had to introduce foreign heroin to the domestic market in large enough amounts to poison-pill the entire generation of those we now know as "hippies".. this cleared the way for the coming of the warmongering 80s and the warpath of ronald rayguns..

So, how does this one end up? Instead of getting a small % of support from the general populace, we find our fellow man so jaded as to brush us off *completely*, and help to remove any chance we have of making a change?

If the occupy folks can't convince you, one average American, that they have a reason to be upset.. what chance do any of us have to change things?

Do you really think limiting congressional terms will make tomorrow any different from yesterday? Because to me, it feels like plugging the Hoover dam with a piece of gum..

I am in London temporarily. Here, the occupiers have taken over a square that is right outside St Paul's cathedral which is one of Anglican christianity's main churches. The reason they chose that particular space is because it is right outside the London Stock Exchange.

This set off an interesting conflict: The church is split about what to do with the protesters. Apparently they are losing USD 35 000 per day in lost ticket sales (there is an entrance fee for this particular cathedral....) That is because they have decided they can't allow visitors to the cathedral while the protesters are outside (for "health and safety" reasons).

The protestors have started up a regular little tent city outside St Pauls. Media and the bishops are mainly screaming for the "riff-raff" to stop blocking the cathedral for tourists and decent people. There is a media campaign to smear the protestors in every imaginable way.

While most regular people who are aware of what the bankers have been up to.... are behind the protesters (at least people I know).

But the question is "What would Jesus do?"
I am guessing from examples like Jesus throwing out the the money changers from the temple, and the things that Jesus said about rich people... that he would in fact support the protesters and be willing for them to stay outside the church! They are serving Mammon for sure - idol worship..... That's my interpretation anyway.

One minister at St Pauls had the same opinion and quit his job because he was upset about the Church's position in this question. He felt like the Church ought to support the protestors, or at least remain neutral.
A brave and principled man!

This also opens the interesting question about how involved religion
should be with politics.

The "Russia Today" TV channel has really good coverage of the Wall Street situation - for entertainment and some challenging ideas, check the "Keiser Report" program.

I just wonder how a serious grown-up woman that does have certain skills, a good job and live in welfare could say any BS like this. You know what? Take out one protester, teach him/her what you can do, recommend him/her to your boss as your replacement, then take his/her poster and leave for the various Wall Street crowds. That's quite the way to satisfy everyone, I guess.

Originally Posted by Eric C.

I just wonder how a serious grown-up woman that does have certain skills, a good job and live in welfare could say any BS like this. You know what? Take out one protester, teach him/her what you can do, recommend him/her to your boss as your replacement, then take his/her poster and leave for the various Wall Street crowds. That's quite the way to satisfy everyone, I guess.

Why wouldn't you let Hanna stay the way she is (fair and wonderful) and refrain from giving her unsolicited suggestions. It seems that you just can't help but get personal. There is a rule against it, you know.

Originally Posted by kidkboom

I do ask myself why I feed into the monster. I willingly step out of just about every sphere of these monsters that I can. I don't own a TV, and I've never owned a car, and I got rid of my cell phone years ago. And actually, a friend of mine and I are shopping for a bit of land right now.. though the obstacles that the authorities place in the way are numerous and staggering.

Scott, I agree with you about the term limits, that this would be an improvement. I personally think a more drastic change needs to happen, however, if we're going to stain the paper with ink at this point in history, and not merely a mark of graphite that the next several years will wear off.

Standing in a park, talking about change without an exact plan.. Sounds familiar. I think something like that once happened at a concert on farmland in New York in the 60s. The authorities were pissed then, too, but they didn't have the eggs to start shooting people, like they did Scott Olsen. No, back then, they just flew over in helicopters.. As Tom Robbins once said, "We used to have a crime problem in this country. Now we have a cop problem in this country."

Of course, in the long run, the helicopters weren't enough.. internal intelligence services had to introduce foreign heroin to the domestic market in large enough amounts to poison-pill the entire generation of those we now know as "hippies".. this cleared the way for the coming of the warmongering 80s and the warpath of ronald rayguns..

So, how does this one end up? Instead of getting a small % of support from the general populace, we find our fellow man so jaded as to brush us off *completely*, and help to remove any chance we have of making a change?

If the occupy folks can't convince you, one average American, that they have a reason to be upset.. what chance do any of us have to change things?

Do you really think limiting congressional terms will make tomorrow any different from yesterday? Because to me, it feels like plugging the Hoover dam with a piece of gum..

Kidkboom - I applaud you for backing up your words with your actions and not feeding into the "monster". I suspect most of the Occupiers don't "walk the walk". Of course I see a lot of people that are upset. What changes do you want to make though?

I don't see that congressional term limits would make a difference right away but some of the scum that have been there for years and draining the system would be term limited out and new blood put in their place.

Scott

Thanks for the sweet comment, Lampada!

I just wonder how a serious grown-up woman that does have certain skills, a good job and live in welfare could say any BS like this.

@Eric, I want a fairer society that recognises the value of people in terms other than just money and what potential profit they can generate.
If all you care about is money, profit and capital then I feel very sorry for you.

Those are empty values and can never fulfill anyone. The more you have, the more you feel you need.
And millions in every rich country, and billions around the world end up at the bottom with nothing but constant fear for how they will manage tomorrow.

I totally agree with the hypocrisy of protests by people who take advantage of all the products that capitalism has to offer.
I do myself and I am aware of the controversy.

Can't you see that the banks are irresponsible and greedy? They produce NOTHING, all they do is speculate with money, trick consumers into irresponsible lending and and charge extorbitant fees for storing money. They have dragged the USA down in the gutter in their quest to squeeze the last penny out of regular workers there. Together with large corporations, they are the scum of the earth.
Something similar is going on in parts of Europe. The banks should be stopped.

Personally I would support a system with LOWER consumption - do away with fashion mania that means you have to regularly change your entire wardrobe. Do away with advertisements that trick people into thinking they need endless gadgets and the latest models of everything from car to computer. Stop irresponsible holiday habits, limit flying and car usage etc.
I'd hope that in a fairer society people could still have some nice looking clothes, computers and enjoy a holiday and so on. One of the reasons I left the UK was actually that I felt so strongly against the wars that the UK is participating in.

Originally Posted by nulle

Which are all made by evil corporations

According to this logic, the USSR people should not have been using their USSR-produced goods when protesting in 1992! Maybe they should have come naked?

And what about all the Eastern Europeans who used near-free and reliable public transport to get to the protest venues in '89.... and then went home to sleep in their almost free state provided accomodation?

Come to think of it, all the free education that they recieved, all the dirt cheap books that they could read and had time to read....that made them into thinking and intelligent people should perhaps somehow be returned?

Hypocrites?

"If you buy coffee you can't protest"

Í haven't seen this program for ages ---- but that woman thinks she's really clever to have come up with that idea, doesn't she!!?

Originally Posted by Hanna

I want a fairer society that recognises the value of people in terms other than just money and what potential profit they can generate.
If all you care about is money, profit and capital then I feel very sorry for you.

Those are empty values and can never fulfill anyone. The more you have, the more you feel you need.
And millions in every rich country, and billions around the world end up at the bottom with nothing but constant fear for how they will manage tomorrow.

I totally agree with the hypocrisy of protests by people who take advantage of all the products that capitalism has to offer.
I do myself and I am aware of the controversy.

Can't you see that the banks are irresponsible and greedy? They produce NOTHING, all they do is speculate with money, trick consumers into irresponsible lending and and charge extorbitant fees for storing money. They have dragged the USA down in the gutter in their quest to squeeze the last penny out of regular workers there. Together with large corporations, they are the scum of the earth.
Something similar is going on in parts of Europe. The banks should be stopped.

Personally I would support a system with LOWER consumption - do away with fashion mania that means you have to regularly change your entire wardrobe. Do away with advertisements that trick people into thinking they need endless gadgets and the latest models of everything from car to computer. Stop irresponsible holiday habits, limit flying and car usage etc.
I'd hope that in a fairer society people could still have some nice looking clothes, computers and enjoy a holiday and so on. One of the reasons I left the UK was actually that I felt so strongly against the wars that the UK is participating in.

Again you mixed up everything. First, banks pay me percent for storing my money. Then, they don't force me into loaning money, if I ever decide to do so, that will be completely my choice. Can't see a single reason why the banks should be "stopped". Then, there you go on "the evil corporations" again. Leave them alone, please. All the best humanity has for now has been made by the corporations. Basically everything. See, each small business that does not "oppress people", if it's successful, is going to turn into a large corporation sooner or later. Remember how Microsoft or Apple started, just for instance.

Then, I personally don't want that lower consumption thing on me. I want to buy what I want to buy, right at the moment when I want that, and so on. On the other hand, if I don't, no ads are going to change my mind. As well as no ads are going to persuade me I should refrain from buying what I want for some strange unobvious reasons like I'm supporting "greedy corporations" or something. I want to live in the world where I can afford everything I can ever think of, and my budget is the only limit factor.

You did leave the UK after all huh? Sorry, I didn't know those virtual things had affected you so much... By the way, what wars exactly are you talking about?

Originally Posted by Eric C.

Again you mixed up everything. First, banks pay me percent for storing my money. Then, they don't force me into loaning money, if I ever decide to do so, that will be completely my choice. Can't see a single reason why the banks should be "stopped". Then, there you go on "the evil corporations" again. Leave them alone, please.

You're right, of course. Nobody's forcing people to borrow money from banks. In theory. But there is still something that needs correcting. Those people are consumers. They've been born by consumers, they were brought up to consume, every TV-ad, every billboard has been telling them to consume since the day they were born. They borrow money to consume and then work to pay off their debts. Well, everything IS fair and right... technically.
They're wrong to protest, of course, but the system that creates brainless consumers should also be corrected somehow.
These people can't express their thoughts, but they do feel deceived. They've been told to consume and so they did. Now they cannot and therefore - protest.

Originally Posted by Ramil

These people can't express their thoughts, but they do feel deceived. They've been told to consume and so they did. Now they cannot and therefore - protest.

+1
All they want is to be able to consume more than they do now because they compare themselves with the others who consume a WAY MORE. They don't dare to compare (hm.. a new trademark? ) their financial situation with an average worker in China. But why not? Indeed, that very worker in China is working!! There's a JOB (!) CREATED (!) for that worker in China! And why that job pays only $12 a month? Well, it's because the evil banks cooperated with the evil corporations through the evil governments and created the evil situation in the world markets that blah-blah-blah (you know the story).

Originally Posted by Eric C.

Again you mixed up everything. First, banks pay me percent for storing my money. Then, they don't force me into loaning money, if I ever decide to do so, that will be completely my choice. Can't see a single reason why the banks should be "stopped". Then, there you go on "the evil corporations" again. Leave them alone, please. All the best humanity has for now has been made by the corporations. Basically everything. See, each small business that does not "oppress people", if it's successful, is going to turn into a large corporation sooner or later. Remember how Microsoft or Apple started, just for instance.

Then, I personally don't want that lower consumption thing on me. I want to buy what I want to buy, right at the moment when I want that, and so on. On the other hand, if I don't, no ads are going to change my mind. As well as no ads are going to persuade me I should refrain from buying what I want for some strange unobvious reasons like I'm supporting "greedy corporations" or something. I want to live in the world where I can afford everything I can ever think of, and my budget is the only limit factor.

You did leave the UK after all huh? Sorry, I didn't know those virtual things had affected you so much... By the way, what wars exactly are you talking about?

Eric, I personally can see quite a few reasons why the powers that banks are given, in the US especially but by dint of Hanna's words possibly abroad as well, should be clipped... Of course, I understand the Wells-Fargo/Pinkerton end of banking - that if the norm wasn't credit cards and checkings and savings accounts and direct-deposits, then burglars, bandits and thieves would be a bigger concern for you and I, the average citizen with personal holdings.

How it is, though, that hiring a bodyguard for your wealth became not only NORMAL but indeed a BYGONE CONCLUSION ACROSS THE WORLD, I don't really understand.. nay, I do understand how it happened, but I'm not a supporter of where it's gotten to.

Reason #1 why Banks' power (and the auxiliary groups, and their respective powers, granted to every financial market and substrate that they've hatched since coming into their own in the 1800s) should be clipped: Madoff.

Reason #2 why Banks' power should be clipped: A history of ridiculous feduciary greenlights between private Banks, the US Government and its many limbs, and the National Treasury (which, on that note, should be one pink piece of paper on the floor in an empty fort knox, reading: "I.O.U. - U.S.S. Grant").

Reason #3 why Banks' power should be clipped: the long explanation given here (The Raw Story | Corrupt banking and the fake war on terror ), though I wouldn't recommend hardcore skeptics to NOT read this, just because the pursed aperture of a closed mind could make this a headache-causing read.

As an aside... thanks to everyone who's being civil in this discussion. As long as we proceed in that manner, we can learn a lot from each other and not have a need to harbor negative sentiments.