Thread: Occupy Wall Street around the world.... Your thoughts and feelings about it!

"Cannot work" is a completely different matter.
But the problem with "welfare states" is that you can easily parasite on the system - which makes it unsustainable in the long run.
Borrowing or just printing money to pay pensions, for example, is complete insanity, yet many countries do so.

Originally Posted by kidkboom

It's easy to say what you're against. What are you for? What changes are you talking about?

Ok, so now they're finally talking business. All those peaceful "just to raise the awareness" somehow drifted away in peace. Revolution, eh?

http://unrealitymag.com/wp-content/u.../president.gif
Somehow reminded me of this, but anyway.
Maybe "occupiers" should stop being so vague and start to accuse real persons with real names for real crimes.
You know - not "we protest against corporate greed" or "greedy jews - pay my tuition".
But "we accuse mr. John Banker for stealing 50 millon dollars from.. well.. some real bank, organization or whatever."
or "mr. Steve Politician for taking bribe from xxx to pass some law that benefits person/company yyy"
That would make a lot more sense.

Hanna made comparison with eastern Europe in the beginning on 1990s.
At that time protesters in Baltics had very clear goals.
Latvians wanted to:
1.) Regain independence from Soviet Union.
2.) Restore country in 1940 borders.
3.) Restore pre-war constitution
4.) Give communist stolen property back to real owners.
5.) Punish communists for their crimes.
Not just "burn commies" or "protest against bad living conditions".

And we more or less got what we wanted.

Originally Posted by Crocodile

Ok, so now they're finally talking business. All those peaceful "just to raise the awareness" somehow drifted away in peace. Revolution, eh?

Something is missing on this poster, don't you think? Maybe some red color?

Originally Posted by Crocodile

Ok, so now they're finally talking business. All those peaceful "just to raise the awareness" somehow drifted away in peace. Revolution, eh?

O'RLY? Revolution or talks about Revolution?

A revolution is a change in power. When revolution happens you replace those who rule you with someone else (or yourself). They should start storming the Capitol and the White House if revolution is what they want. Create a government, start arming people... Does anyone of them have the balls to do that?

The protesters can stay there and protest for years... so? These evil bankers will simply ignore them.

Originally Posted by Ramil

O'RLY? Revolution or talks about Revolution? [...] The protesters can stay there and protest for years... so? These evil bankers will simply ignore them.

Well, if I were a politician, I would say something like: "The extremist wing of the protesters is trying to ride the wave and highjack the attention by shouting their extremist slogans which do not even express the sentiment of the majority of the crowd. However, by insulting the rest of the public, the extremists provoke the public and the police to finally take some actions and contemplate to use that process to elevate the protest into a new level switch the peaceful protest into something more violent ultimately dreaming for a Revolution similarly to the recent Middle-East events."

But, since I'm not a politician, but just a simple-minded crocodile, I can only observe the change in tone of someone's posts... Getting too frustrated with the public which find comfort in their collective denial?

Originally Posted by Crocodile

Well, if I were a politician, I would say something like: "The extremist wing of the protesters is trying to ride the wave and highjack the attention by shouting their extremist slogans which do not even express the sentiment of the majority of the crowd. However, by insulting the rest of the public, the extremists provoke the public and the police to finally take some actions and contemplate to use that process to elevate the protest into a new level switch the peaceful protest into something more violent ultimately dreaming for a Revolution similarly to the recent Middle-East events."

But, since I'm not a politician, but just a simple-minded crocodile, I can only observe the change in tone of someone's posts... Getting too frustrated with the public which find comfort in their collective denial?

Скромные крокодилы живут дольше чем гордые политические деятели! --> So, who's *really* simple-minded, at the end of the day? =)

Originally Posted by kidkboom

Скромные крокодилы живут дольше чем гордые политические деятели! --> So, who's *really* simple-minded, at the end of the day? =)

Well, it's subjective. A galapagos tortoise in captivity lived 170 years. Do you want to change places with that turtle?

Originally Posted by Crocodile

But, since I'm not a politician, but just a simple-minded crocodile...

And if anyone believes you are simple minded... I have a great bridge to sell you in Brooklyn or maybe some swamp land in Florida would be better as there are more crocs there (or are there only gators there?).

SORRY NO CHANGE | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

I predict that people will soon get tired and walk home. Their numbers will erode and so will the morale of those, more committed. These protests will cease by Christmas, I think.

Originally Posted by Ramil

I predict that people will soon get tired and walk home. Their numbers will erode and so will the morale of those, more committed. These protests will cease by Christmas, I think.

Ah, that's exactly what the evil bankers want. But no!111111111 People would stay and burn overnight fires in the snow-covered squares sitting around the fire solemnly silent dressed in shabby clothes as in a futuristic apocalyptic Hollywood movie. Of course, the countless love dramas would happen between some of the protesters and many would remember these days as the most romantic days of their lives...

This whole thread (as well as the "Tea Party" movement) makes me think of this:




...and also this:



It's easy to say Жизнь была бы настолько лучше, если бы у нас (не) было... ("Life would be so much better, if we had/didn't have...")

But if you have absolutely no clue how to get from our current condition to the Bright New Tomorrow without making things worse (which, I think, is true of most OWS protesters and most Tea Party protesters), then you're not really doing anything useful.

Throbert, I couldn't respond to this in debate fashion.. I was far too busy being cracked up by your sense of humor

Awesome

I hear occupiers complaining about Wall Street bonuses but don't hear any complaining about this:

Solyndra Execs Reaped Bonuses Before Bankruptcy, Documents Show | Fox News

More hypocrisy?

Scott

Originally Posted by fortheether

I hear occupiers complaining about Wall Street bonuses but don't hear any complaining about this:

Solyndra Execs Reaped Bonuses Before Bankruptcy, Documents Show | Fox News

More hypocrisy?

Scott

Well, I guess there's some to be heard now

@nulle - I travelled by train all the way which is much more environmental than any other mode of transport. The only exception was the ferry trip across the Baltic Sea, and a few routes where I went by coach or marshrutka. This was deliberate. I really don't like flying and avoid flying as much as I can. But I have never said that I am not part of the hypocrisy - I am , only perhaps a bit less than some people. But I am not ready to go and live in a rural eco commune or something like that.

After returning to Sweden after a very long time away I am really sad to see that it has turned into a country like all the others in Western Europe. Privatization has ruined the previously excellent public transport. Stockholm is suffering from an accommodation shortage after the publically owned housing societies were privatized. Large corporations that are allowed to run schools for profit have sprung up. Swedish banks could not keep their fingers away from the new untapped markets in the East and did huge damage to themselves and national finances. Not to mention those people who were cheated into irresponsible lending. All the ideals that existed while I grew up are forgotten or considered outdated. No country is immune to the greed and globalisation it seems.

Banks and a very small group of people can do what they like and the rest have to serve them in varying degree of comfort or lack thereof.

I think the Occupy movement is right and I hope they can manage to formulate a manifesto and stick with it.

What do you think is the reason why Occupy does not exist in Russia yet? There are many injustices in Russia and a large part of the population have are poor and have very little prospects, while the money is rolling into a fairly narrow sector in some of the larger cities.

Would an Occupy movement be thrown out by the police or army, or would it be allowed? Do people sympathize? The RUssia Today channel gives quite sympathetic coverage to the protest, but what would it think if it took root in Russia too?

There is something that people can do at a personal level, start an employee owned company. This allows you to make something like a firewall between you and the various predatory forces in the economy. Similar idea is a coop. but corporation gives you more flexibility. You can create company that has part of it's activity to provide services to members at reduced rates, by using buying power, bargaining power of bulk buying, &/or larger scale financing (lower rates). In other words, you can create company to do the things for your members that good government should be doing, but won't. If you have it together, you can start your own credit union or small bank, where legislation allows it. Think laterally.