Thread: Occupy Wall Street around the world.... Your thoughts and feelings about it!

Trying to do such actions in Russia is quite unhealthy because Russian police is by far not so gentle as American.

Let's keep it civil here, please.

Occupy Chicago arrests are seen as a trial run for international summits to come next year - chicagotribune.com

" ... Throughout Saturday evening, police remained in constant contact with organizers
of the Occupy Chicago demonstrations, warning that anyone remaining in Grant
Park after the 11 p.m. curfew, violating a city ordinance, risked being
hauled off to jail, city officials said.

Mayor Rahm
Emanuel was kept abreast of the situation, receiving regular updates from
police Superintendent Garry
McCarthy, said Chris Mather, the mayor's spokeswoman.

"The mayor made
it clear that he wanted protesters to have ample warning that the park was
closing as well as time to leave should they choose to do so," Mather
said.

Occupy Chicago organizer Kelvin Ho said about 500 protesters who
had camped out at the park Saturday night were divided into color-coded groups —
red for those who did not want to be arrested, yellow for those who were
undecided and green for those who were willing to remain behind and go to
jail.

At 12:45 a.m., McCarthy made the call for police to move in and
arrest anyone remaining in the park. Shortly after 1 a.m., police began leading
175 people away in handcuffs.

"Demonstrators were in violation of the
law, and it is the obligation of police to enforce the law," Mather
said.

Police officials determined they could not allow the more than
2,000 protesters to spend the night in the public park because it would be
harder to get them out in the coming days, according to a police source familiar
with the events.

It also would set a bad precedent for dealing with
thousands of demonstrators expected to converge on Chicago from around the world
during the G-8 and
NATO
summits that will be held simultaneously in May, the source said. ..."

I don't believe the Americans are capable of making a revolution. When it gets cold, they will all leave. Nothing will change.

На каждого протестующего найдется свой Жемчужный Прапорщик.

Wait, are you saying the protesters just stood there and did nothing violent?

Originally Posted by mishau_

На каждого протестующего найдется свой Жемчужный Прапорщик.

Wikipedia:

15 сентября на Вадима Бойко было совершено нападение, и 20 сентября он был госпитализирован с сотрясением мозга и черепно-мозговой травмой[14]. 2 ноября было совершено нападение на его первого адвоката Александра Ерошенко[15], который впоследствии отказался защищать Бойко в суде[16].

Интересно, где же он гулял 5 дней от момента совершения нападения и до госпитализации?

If their job skills are as vague as their message I'm not surprised they're unemployed..

That's right - I still don't have a clue what the hell they are protesting agaisnt?
Their own stupidity, because they took loans that they cannot pay back?
http://www.cagle.com/news/WallStreet...ges/beeler.jpg
http://www.cagle.com/news/WallStreet.../ramirez09.jpg

http://www.cagle.com/news/WallStreet...ges/darkow.jpg
My response: "That's not your house dumbass - that's bank's house."

This reminds me of 1917. at that time Lenin also used uneducated dumb(m)asses to "eradicate greedy capitalists".
How that ended we all know.

Originally Posted by nulle

That's right - I still don't have a clue what the hell they are protesting agaisnt?
Their own stupidity, because they took loans that they cannot pay back?
http://www.cagle.com/news/WallStreet...ges/beeler.jpg
http://www.cagle.com/news/WallStreet.../ramirez09.jpg

http://www.cagle.com/news/WallStreet...ges/darkow.jpg
My response: "That's not your house dumbass - that's bank's house."

This reminds me of 1917. at that time Lenin also used uneducated dumb(m)asses to "eradicate greedy capitalists".
How that ended we all know.

Excellent post, nulle. Nothing to add.

Originally Posted by Eric C.

Excellent post, nulle. Nothing to add.

I'm very disheartened by some of the opinions people seem to have about my country, countrymen, and apparently some lack of spirit or resolve that you perceive in us.

What are you comparing Americans to? Which other country or group is it that, in comparison to us, has so much more resolve and dedication to riot and protest?

Which country or group is it that even has a history of protest, prior to my own? Granted, India and respectively Gandhi qualify as having made some major mark in the arena of popular protest.

But who else?

Who is being served or benefitted by such cynicism? Does this cynical outlook upon things that have not yet been decided help you to have a better ratio of successful "guesses" on future outcomes? And how does talking trash on this movement actually help YOU? Are you taking numbers, bets on which side (if there's such a thing as a side, even) will come out on top?

I don't know everything about history.. educate me. Tell me about how Russia protests - maybe we should take some hints from you guys.

Ramil, Eric C and nulle, I can't tell if you all are non-americans who dislike america, american conservatives who dislike protesters, sociopathic accountants who dislike the threat of monetary change - , or just Eor-esque cynics.. where do you form such concrete opinions about something that's still in its malleable stages? Are you trying to say that what was done to people was right, and it should remain as it was decided? Or are you simply saying "A card laid is a card played, you can't undo it even if it was a mistake; simply feel stupid for it." ?? Are you making a statement about deservedness - that these people never deserved to have anything, and they did deserve to lose it? Or.. are you saying anything at all, besides "Harumph!!" ??

@ Ramil: Are you saying "nothing will change" because you don't think we have the heart to go through with it? Or, because you think change is impossible to achieve, and no matter how hard we'll try, we'll only fail and be killed by our own subversive government for being political dissenters? (deja vu)

And, if you would be so kind, I'd really like to hear your constructive criticism.... what should people be doing instead? How should people bring about effective change, if the method we've engaged is so laughable to you?

BTW, Eric, if you want, you can answer my question by waiting until nulle responds, then typing "What he said" afterwards.. (You in the back can just rattle your jewelry)

"When your cynicism overshadows your hope, go stick your head in the dirt. You're mulch, potting soil. Only purpose you can serve at that point is to feed the roots of something better than you."

Originally Posted by kidkboom

I'm very disheartened by some of the opinions people seem to have about my country, countrymen, and apparently some lack of spirit or resolve that you perceive in us.

What are you comparing Americans to? Which other country or group is it that, in comparison to us, has so much more resolve and dedication to riot and protest?

Which country or group is it that even has a history of protest, prior to my own? Granted, India and respectively Gandhi qualify as having made some major mark in the arena of popular protest.

But who else?

Who is being served or benefitted by such cynicism? Does this cynical outlook upon things that have not yet been decided help you to have a better ratio of successful "guesses" on future outcomes? And how does talking trash on this movement actually help YOU? Are you taking numbers, bets on which side (if there's such a thing as a side, even) will come out on top?

I don't know everything about history.. educate me. Tell me about how Russia protests - maybe we should take some hints from you guys.

Ramil, Eric C and nulle, I can't tell if you two are non-americans who dislike america, american conservatives who dislike protesters, sociopathic accountants who dislike the threat of monetary change - , or just Eor-esque cynics.. where do you form such concrete opinions about something that's still in its malleable stages? Are you trying to say that what was done to people was right, and it should remain as it was decided? Or are you simply saying "A card laid is a card played, you can't undo it even if it was a mistake; simply feel stupid for it." ?? Are you making a statement about deservedness - that these people never deserved to have anything, and they did deserve to lose it? Or.. are you saying anything at all, besides "Harumph!!" ??

@ Ramil: Are you saying "nothing will change" because you don't think we have the heart to go through with it? Or, because you think change is impossible to achieve, and no matter how hard we'll try, we'll only fail and be killed by our own subversive government for being political dissenters? (deja vu)

And, if you would be so kind, I'd really like to hear your constructive criticism.... what should people be doing instead? How should people bring about effective change, if the method we've engaged is so laughable to you?

BTW, Eric, if you want, you can answer my question by waiting until nulle responds, then typing "What he said" afterwards.. (You in the back can just rattle your jewelry)

Before I get deep into it, could you clarify how not standing for these protesters against common sense makes me anti American?

Originally Posted by Eric C.

Before I get deep into it, could you clarify how not standing for these protesters against common sense makes me anti American?

Yeah, I'm not saying that at all. I'm trying to suss you out ideologically.. I don't have any way of knowing you are or ever were American... Coming from the stance that you DO have citizenship here, I'd narrow my questioning to whether you are a conservative who dislikes this protest, a cynic who doubts there is efficacy behind protest, or so on.... let's just take a step back here and remember that I'm trying to be civil and discuss ideology and not people. I have no intention of attacking you or anybody else. Who you are is not my topic and who I am is not your topic.. as for who I am ideologically, I am a liberal that borders on libertarian views, and a big supporter of change - and to address the definition of that word post-comments-by-people-who-didn't-want-obama-for-president, i'm defining "change" as ANYTHING that shakes up the current alignment of money and power in the country. That's my own personal def, not obama's. =)

Anti-American is sloganism in phrase-coining, just like Pro-Life.. Pro-Life is understood as meaning Against Abortion, but by strict definition, if I don't shoot my cat in the face, I'm Pro-Life, aren't I? Anybody who says their opinion is "American" could excommunicate the counterpoint opinion with the appending of a simple "Anti-" and I won't insult your intelligence by saying that.

I wish I lived as "poorly" as these "protesters" in USA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demogra...rk_City#Income
And with incomes like that they are protesting??
I do not earn even half of that - which car should I burn?

Originally Posted by nulle

I wish I lived as "poorly" as these "protesters" in USA.
Demographics of New York City - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
And with incomes like that they are protesting??
I do not earn even half of that - which car should I burn?

With respect, my thoughts: If the amount of gold in a citizen's purse can decide what their political decisions will be, then we're all up the feces creek without a paddle, because the first guy who comes down the picket line handing out gold doubloons will silence all political dissent.

Hmm.. Doesn't sound very American to me. Then again you're not talking to another cinch-voter for Romney.

"He who would trade interminable liberty for a little temporary safety deserves neither."
What's your price? Judas sold his soul for 30 pieces of silver. At what price will you sell your soul?

Originally Posted by kidkboom

What are you comparing Americans to? Which other country or group is it that, in comparison to us, has so much more resolve and dedication to riot and protest?

Let me think... Egypt? LOL The problem is that resolve is not enough. See below.

Originally Posted by kidkboom

@ Ramil: Are you saying "nothing will change" because you don't think we have the heart to go through with it? Or, because you think change is impossible to achieve, and no matter how hard we'll try, we'll only fail and be killed by our own subversive government for being political dissenters? (deja vu)

Both, actually. But let me ask you these questions. That 'go through with it' thing - can you clarify what exactly those protesters want to go through with? Revolutions require blood and violence. That's a sad fact. Revolutions usually ruin economies completely. Those protesters' lives will be much worse if they succeed. Besides, what are their goals? What is their program? Who is their leader? Imagine those capitalists appear and surrender. What's next? Right now they're nothing more than a poorly organzied mob (well, let's hope it isn't organized). Pray it wouldn't taste blood and the police can handle it. If not - there'll be another London. There's more - such movements gain a certain magnitude and without anything happening they either explode or disappear (people will simply grow tired and leave the Wall St. for good).

Originally Posted by kidkboom

And, if you would be so kind, I'd really like to hear your constructive criticism.... what should people be doing instead? How should people bring about effective change, if the method we've engaged is so laughable to you?

I know it may shock someone, but if they really want the capitalists to change something they ought to start hanging the wrong guys. I'm serious (to answer your question 'what should people be doing instead'). See above - revolutions require blood. Read Marx - he proved that. The only way the lower classes can overthrow the top is through violence. Their problem is - they're still lacking the guy who'd tell them who exactly the 'wrong guys' are.

What these people want? To get rid of the banks? They can try that, of course, but I doubt they'll find their lives changed to good afterwards. No, I don't believe the Americans will go this far.


P.S. Unlike many of my countrymen I respect the Americans and not as prejudiced as I may seem. My quarrel is with your government, not the people. Some of the Americans I know personally are quite nice.

Originally Posted by Ramil

Let me think... Egypt? LOL The problem is that resolve is not enough. See below.

Both, actually. But let me ask you these questions. That 'go through with it' thing - can you clarify what exactly those protesters want to go through with? Revolutions require blood and violence. That's a sad fact. Revolutions usually ruin economies completely. Those protesters' lives will be much worse if they succeed. Besides, what are their goals? What is their program? Who is their leader? Imagine those capitalists appear and surrender. What's next? Right now they're nothing more than a poorly organzied mob (well, let's hope it isn't organized). Pray it wouldn't taste blood and the police can handle it. If not - there'll be another London. There's more - such movements gain a certain magnitude and without anything happening they either explode or disappear (people will simply grow tired and leave the Wall St. for good).

I know it may shock someone, but if they really want the capitalists to change something they ought to start hanging the wrong guys. I'm serious (to answer your question 'what should people be doing instead'). See above - revolutions require blood. Read Marx - he proved that. The only way the lower classes can overthrow the top is through violence. Their problem is - they're still lacking the guy who'd tell them who exactly the 'wrong guys' are.

What these people want? To get rid of the banks? They can try that, of course, but I doubt they'll find their lives changed to good afterwards. No, I don't believe the Americans will go this far.

The truth of the matter is, I'm inclined to AGREE with about 99% of what you're saying Ramil.. the only part I disagree with is that I, for one, am not at all afraid of involving myself in the blood part of a revolution, and that I don't think the better choice would be to back down from the opportunity to do so, once we've hit this point - that's what the would-be-revolutionists of the 60s did (responded to gun-barrels with flowers, then they got shot..hmm), and it led to another bag of gold doubloons buying off another generation of everywhere-increasingly-in-chains individuals, 'til there was no fight left in them, 'til they became the thing they were once doing battle with..

I agree with you because of one tricky little thing... Most people know that they want/need change, but they don't know EXACTLY what needs changed.. *I think* the reason for this is, the EXACT things that need changed are like a set of diodes on an infinitely-complex computer chip inside an infinitely-complex machine... By the time a person knows what those things are and that they need to be changed, he's become so minutely focused that not only could he himself NOT be the leader of a movement (by definition requisite of a relatively well-balanced and far-seeing person, not a niche-educated socioeconomics specialist without the spine for the big and the vague), but that he also has effectively NO ABILITY to communicate that niche knowledge to the outer fringe, where reside those massses with the HEART for revolt.

This is what I call a 1984 trick... There is a problem and it is malignant, but it is comprised of so many moving parts that no one person can effectively back away far enough to see it, and still be in orbit near enough TO it to make a change.

Still... If there is going to be a revolution, it MUST be bloody, you're right... not only must it cut down the reigning kings (who would prefer this to their surrender, believe me) but ALSO the currency of the reigning kings, which for so many years has been illusory anyway - like a paper wrapper wrung around a finger, in pithy representation of what was once a wedding ring.. Only when value can be re-established from the ground up, from things which retain their intrinsic value from inalienable utility (food, transportation, livestock, shelter, weapons) can there be any hope of routing out the roaches and rats from the walls of our country, and doing something honest.

Originally Posted by Ramil

P.S. Unlike many of my countrymen I respect the Americans and not as prejudiced as I may seem. My quarrel is with your government, not the people. Some of the Americans I know personally are quite nice.

Hey, Ramil, as far as I'm concerned, you've always been a good guy.. If you ever find yourself in the same town as me, I'll buy you a beer.

Originally Posted by kidkboom

Yeah, I'm not saying that at all. I'm trying to suss you out ideologically.. I don't have any way of knowing you are or ever were American... Coming from the stance that you DO have citizenship here, I'd narrow my questioning to whether you are a conservative who dislikes this protest, a cynic who doubts there is efficacy behind protest, or so on.... let's just take a step back here and remember that I'm trying to be civil and discuss ideology and not people. I have no intention of attacking you or anybody else. Who you are is not my topic and who I am is not your topic.. as for who I am ideologically, I am a liberal that borders on libertarian views, and a big supporter of change - and to address the definition of that word post-comments-by-people-who-didn't-want-obama-for-president, i'm defining "change" as ANYTHING that shakes up the current alignment of money and power in the country. That's my own personal def, not obama's. =)

Anti-American is sloganism in phrase-coining, just like Pro-Life.. Pro-Life is understood as meaning Against Abortion, but by strict definition, if I don't shoot my cat in the face, I'm Pro-Life, aren't I? Anybody who says their opinion is "American" could excommunicate the counterpoint opinion with the appending of a simple "Anti-" and I won't insult your intelligence by saying that.

It's not I'm a conservative or cynic, I just don't see a single reason to "shake up" the current market system. It's the standard if you will. Look at the third world and you'll see a possible alternative. Is that what you want? The truth is, for now the humanity is not physically able to build the heaven on earth as some dreaming people see it. But there are better and worse attempts, and what those shakers are up to, I think, is just get what's already been created down to a lower level. Not to mention this kind of event is always accompanied by terrible violence and bloodshed which makes it far more disgusting and inappropriate.

the only part I disagree with is that I, for one, am not at all afraid of involving myself in the blood part of a revolution, and that I don't think the better choice would be to back down from the opportunity to do so

Here it goes, how far can one go following implementation of his/her ideas, and what's meant by the "blood part"?

Originally Posted by Hanna

Originally Posted by Sala_

If their job skills are as vague as their message I'm not surprised they're unemployed..

I think you may have OD:d on Fox News.....

I don't watch FOX News, but I do understand you are most likely to receive the desired solution to your protest if you provide the solution yourself. Clearly the protesters do not have a solution either. Wall Street does not intentionally want these people to be unemployed but the only clear message they are sending is "We are going to sit here and do nothing for as long as it takes" which is exactly how Wall Street will respond.