Thread: Sochi Olympics and the Law against Gays in Russia +

iCake: Did you even read my post? Or better say did you try to understand what I wrote? The law doesn't say that it's possible to make someone gay nor does it say that it's impossible. That just states that telling a juvenile to become gay is illegal. Can you ever try to abstract from your personal feelings when judging something or trying to prove something? As I said I wrote that text at my own risk to become hated and unpopular by who advocate gay rights here. So it seems that risk has come to pass. I'm so dissapointed. But please, take a look at my post again. Did I state there that I dissaprove/approve of gays? Well, it seems I didn't. What a pity.

Igor, the thing is - we have already discussed so many of the things that you brought up! You even said you did not read through the entire thread. I think you should try to read through the thread before you criticize Lampada for "not reading" your post. To be honest, I had the same reaction as Lampada when I saw what you wrote. I don't think it's fair to make statements about her "personal feelings," etc. Let's not make this personal about anyone's ability to understand, read, etc. When people start insulting each other, a rational discussion is no longer possible.

Originally Posted by Deborski

Igor, the thing is - we have already discussed so many of the things that you brought up! You even said you did not read through the entire thread. I think you should try to read through the thread before you criticize Lampada for "not reading" your post. To be honest, I had the same reaction as Lampada when I saw what you wrote. I don't think it's fair to make statements about her "personal feelings," etc. Let's not make this personal about anyone's ability to understand, read, etc. When people start insulting each other, a rational discussion is no longer possible.

Okay, I see. I tried to be as distant about gays as I could and then I got nothing but a personal based biased view thrown back at me. Sorry for asking to be as distant in your views as I tried to be. Sorry for asking not to completely distort the gist of what I said. Sorry for being such a jerk who definitely doesn't support homosexuality, although I didn't even said that. Sorry for trying to express my thoughts while holding on to only facts and I'm most definitely sorry for expecting a reply based on facts as well.

As for the rational conversation I don't see one and I don't think I will.

Nice chatting about gay rights and great job backing each other up

Originally Posted by iCake

Okay, I see. I tried to be as distant about gays as I could and then I got nothing but a personal based biased view thrown back at me. Sorry for asking to be as distant in your views as I tried to be. Sorry for asking not to completely distort the gist of what I said. Sorry for being such a jerk who definitely doesn't support homosexuality, although I didn't even said that. Sorry for trying to express my thoughts while holding on to only facts and I'm most definitely sorry for expecting a reply based on facts as well.

As for the rational conversation I don't see one and I don't think I will.

Nice chatting about gay rights and great job backing each other up

And now who is allowing personal feelings to get in the way? Come on, Igor, I didn't even accuse you of any of those things. I just thought it was unfair how you (and Doomer) ganged up on Lampada and made statements about her not understanding. So, is it ok for you two to "back each other up" but not ok for me to back up Lampada?

Let's just get away from all the personal stuff. What I mean by personal is not our opinions regarding gay rights, but people's individual personalities. Let's not turn this into a flame-fest! The discussion actually has been quite civil so far. Not everyone is agreeing with each other of course, but for the most part, we are not attacking each other on a personal level.

No one is throwing their opinions in your face anymore than you have thrown your opinions out here. Everyone has a right to agree or disagree. I am just asking that we not start attacking people's individual personalities or making statements about their personal faults, etc, etc. Once the insults start flying, there can no longer be a civilized discussion.

Originally Posted by Deborski

And now who is allowing personal feelings to get in the way? Come on, Igor, I didn't even accuse you of any of those things. I just thought it was unfair how you (and Doomer) ganged up on Lampada and made statements about her not understanding. So, is it ok for you two to "back each other up" but not ok for me to back up Lampada?

I'm trying to use facts, you trying to use social studies which are not facts
And all I'm saying that there is NO PROOF for either of theories. But you saying: "oh, well, there is no proof, so we make up our own conclusion and that's gonna be the truth". I mean that is exactly what the Church was trying to do to you when you were younger and sadly this is what you are doing now. You supporting your believes with fakes to make yourself feel better.

Originally Posted by Doomer

I'm trying to use facts, you trying to use social studies which are not facts
And all I'm saying that there is NO PROOF for either of theories. But you saying: "oh, well, there is no proof, so we make up our own conclusion and that's gonna be the truth". I mean that is exactly what the Church was trying to do to you when you were younger and sadly this is what you are doing now. You supporting your believes with fakes to make yourself feel better.

And now you are getting personal and making implications about my level of intelligence/understanding, etc. Sorry, but I am not going to get into this with you. I did not reference "social studies" - I am referencing psychological studies and scientific studies. Whereas, you are just voicing your opinion. You will choose what to believe in, I guess. But as long as you are going after me with veiled insults, I am not going to respond to you further.

Originally Posted by Deborski

And now you are getting personal and making implications about my level of intelligence/understanding, etc. Sorry, but I am not going to get into this with you. I did not reference "social studies" - I am referencing psychological studies and scientific studies. Whereas, you are just voicing your opinion. You will choose what to believe in, I guess. But as long as you are going after me with veiled insults, I am not going to respond to you further.

Could you please point me to the article that confirms that being gay is a genetic disorder, because that's what you said earlier

Originally Posted by Deborski

It's actually in their DNA.

psychological studies cannot confirm the medical fact of genetic disorder because psychological studies can only be done on people who actually can respond i.e. not on babies. Thus they might confirm that "gayness" cannot be "cured" but they cannot confirm that people born with it. And that's a big issue and big question. Because if that's either environmental or social then it can be prevented in some cases and people should now that they might have a choice for their children and this is very important.