Thread: "Russophobia" and "Russophilia" :)

Зачем лагеря, душегубки и печи?..
Есть бомбы и правозащитный укроп.
Европа спасает права человечьи,
Страну загоняя бомбежками в гроб, -

Потом ее живо отстроят под ключ,
И дух перепашут, и многих окучат,
И сладостной славы обломится луч -
И премию Нобеля Павич получит.
(И премию Павича Нобель получит!)

А также на кучу убитых мостов
Объявятся конкурсы вместе с жюрями,
Их уши торчат из европских кустов
И правозащитными бьют козырями,

И ждут долгостроя, строительства в долг,
Чтоб долго в долгах новодела вариться.
…Но, воя, вползет в подсознание волк
Растерзанной сербости, он растворится -

Как соль, этой солью приправят еду,
И море, и кровь. Незабвенно и просто.
И сербости я надеваю звезду,
Чтоб сербов не бросить в аду холокоста.

Юнна Мориц. 1999.

Ну уж не знаю. Новостной сайт - один из многих в моей RSS-ленте, центр "Сова" вроде как обычная российская либеральная правозащитная организация, что, в общем-то, все равно, пока информация, ими предоставляемая, соответствует действительности.
А радостно - потому что я считаю националистов опасными идиотами, стремящимися, не понимя того, развалить мою страну, сделав из нее вторую Украину. Чем больше эти идиоты грызутся между собой - тем меньше у них времени наносить из благих намерений урон России.

Originally Posted by dtrq

А радостно - потому что я считаю националистов опасными идиотами, стремящимися, не понимя того, развалить мою страну, сделав из нее вторую Украину. Чем больше эти идиоты грызутся между собой - тем меньше у них времени наносить из благих намерений урон России.

Ну вот видите.

Александр Билецкий - Если бы во время Великой Отечественной работал интернет...

Originally Posted by wanja

Александр Билецкий - Если бы во время Великой Отечественной работал интернет...

Like не ставлю, но за линк спасибо, интересная импровизация

Without any proof at all, all the English speaking news channels are busy telling the world that pro-Russian separatists shot down the Malaysian plane, using weapons from Russia.

"Putin has some questions to answer" —BBC.


I thought this belonged in the Russophobia thread, since it fits the theme of the thread.

Anyone who wants to know the other side of the story, turn to RT on http://rt.com/news/ (streaming).

Don't jump to any conclusion either way; RT too, is doing a good job of dropping hints in the other direction even though they are more restrictive.

Originally Posted by Hanna

Without any proof at all, all the English speaking news channels are busy telling the world that pro-Russian separatists shot down the Malaysian plane, using weapons from Russia.

"Putin has some questions to answer" —BBC.


I thought this belonged in the Russophobia thread, since it fits the theme of the thread.

Anyone who wants to know the other side of the story, turn to RT on http://rt.com/news/ (streaming).

Don't jump to any conclusion either way; RT too, is doing a good job of dropping hints in the other direction even though they are more restrictive.

Общие соображения:
1. Пассажирские самолёты идут на высоте 10k, там его в принципе нечем достать ополченцам.
2. Воздушное пространство над зоной АТО было официально закрыто Украиной, пассажирский самолёт туда мог попасть только по прямой диверсии авиадиспетчера.
3. Вспоминается выстрел в Сараево, начавший Первую мировую войну.
4. Кажется, пора срочно выяснить, есть ли поблизости бомбоубежища, рассчитанные на ядерный удар.

Originally Posted by RedFox

Общие соображения:
1. Пассажирские самолёты идут на высоте 10k, там его в принципе нечем достать ополченцам.

Allegedly the rebels might have "Buk" missile systems that were taken in June from Ukrainian military base. However official Kiev claimed that those "Buk" systems were broken by Ukrainian military during their retreat from the base.
At the same time Ukrainian military has 27 "Buk" missile systems near Donetsk, they were set there on July 15th (according to Russian sources)

Originally Posted by RedFox

2. Воздушное пространство над зоной АТО было официально закрыто Украиной, пассажирский самолёт туда мог попасть только по прямой диверсии авиадиспетчера.

Apparently that is a common practice for high-flying aircraft to go through a zone of war conflict, it was done so before in Ukraine and other countries.
However the course of the plane has been altered(can be verified through historical information) by Ukrainian flight control (they were controlling the course of the aircraft and nobody denies it). Official version: "due to storms in the area of original flight course"


Note to the moderator: I know it's a veto on Ukrainian topic but could we at least talk about the plane crash?

Apparently, firing the type of missile system that can lock onto a moving target at 10,000 m (where large passenger planes tend to be) is a HIGHLY specialised skill, that requires a team of people who are trained to work together as a in a professional situation. Completely computerised.

It seems really unlikely that the rebels would have BOTH the equipment AND the necessary skills.

It doesn't seem logical that it's them.

If any local militia could shoot down a Boeing 777 at cruising height, then surely terrorists around the world would be doing it regularly? I think it takes a proper national military to do that and therefor I'm leaning towards UA military, simply making a huge mistake.

Apparently UA downed a Russian passenger plane in 2004, by mistake over the Black Sea.

I think they somehow mistook the plane for a military aircraft and downed it. Like a drone or a fighter jet. Apparently Russia has been sending drones over the area.

But isn't the mis-identification spectacular?

A Boeing looks nothing like a drone or military planes, it's MUCH larger and flies much higher. Surely drones and military aircrafts don't fly at that height?! It seems very odd that it wasn't possible to distinguish between a Boeing 777 and a military target.

Whoever is behind this obviously didn't do it on purpose, but what a monumental fail. So tragic. If it is the rebels despite my hunch, then it's a PR suicide.

Did you notice the fire engine? I was just a little bit sad to see that this rural area is using a 45 year old fire engine at a major aircraft disaster. Well done them for keeping it operational for that long. It looked in good shape despite its age. But they must be very short of funds if they can't afford to replace a fire engine from the 1960s.

Thank goodness at least nobody local was killed! With bad luck, there could have been deaths at the impact location too.

If you want to be really sinister there are two aspects:

1) Malaysia Airlines --- again?! What are the odds?!
2) Some kind of psy-ops / black ops operation to turn public opinion and pave the way for NATO intervention in Ukraine.

Ханна, пока есть только один факт: самолёт потерпел крушение, всё остальное умозрительные домыслы, от которых при такой трагедии необходимо воздерживаться до официального заключения. Тем более, что на все украинские темы на форуме объявлен мораторий.

Originally Posted by Lampada

до официального заключения

Кто верит в правдивость официальных заключений (любых)?

Originally Posted by RedFox

Кто верит в правдивость официальных заключений (любых)?

82 children, 3 infants, and 213 adults died in that crash. It's very sad and the only important issue is that they learn what caused the crash so they can help prevent future disasters. Nobody knows what caused the crash yet so it could be pilot error or a malfunction.
There's something really wrong about this week. First the metro crash in Moscow and now this. My condolences for everybody who lost family and friends in these tragic events.

Btw, they found a second black box and international teams will be investigating the accident. I would post a link to the article but it's too political. They should be focusing on the crash and the victims, not politics.

Originally Posted by Lampada

Ханна, пока есть только один факт: самолёт потерпел крушение, всё остальное умозрительные домыслы, от которых при такой трагедии необходимо воздерживаться до официального заключения. Тем более, что на все украинские темы на форуме объявлен мораторий.

I guess there is a problem with official conclusion.
Theoretically only Ukrainian and Malaysian officials can make such conclusion. Neither of those two has enough resources and knowledge to investigate such crashes. Not to mention that Ukraine is one of the suspected sides.

В Москве люди несут цветы к диппредставительству Малайзии (ул. Мосфильмовская, 50) и посольству Голландии (Калашный пер., 6). На подоконниках посольства Голландии лежат цветы, горят свечи.

This is the most read tabloid in the UK.
The headline is seen by every Brit who passes a newspaper stand or a shop that sells magazines. Agitation & propaganda, much?

Perhaps it illustrates the need to present both sides of this to any English speakers who happen to pass by.





I'll follow Redfox' advice and check out where the nearest nuclear shelter is. :sarcasm: Who knows what those scary Russians will do next? :irony:

Originally Posted by Hanna

This is the most read tabloid in the UK.

These two are even better:

Originally Posted by hddscan

I tried to investigate a little and I came to conclusion that Ukrainian "Buk" systems (location info has been reported by Russia) are pretty far from the crash site. They could have shot down the plane but it's a big stretch.
Here is the map.

Insiders in Ukrainian military said they fired and missed. So the job was finished by a fighter jet.

That's sad but I guess Russians will live in their world and Brits in theirs.
Once again it is proven that the East and the West are not ready to unite or even collaborate.

PS: Those scary Russians have more nukes than anybody else, so better make that shelter big and bury it deep.

bobik_57 - Вот и первые признаки БЧ. Сбивал не "Бук-М1"
Самолёт был поражен осколочно-стержневой боевой частью.
Слова эксперта: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnd9gAxhC-c «самолёт падал не вертикально». Значит пролетел существенное расстояние от точки поражения.
Для меня вывод недвусмысленный. Самолёт сбила украинская авиация.

Меж тем, по Луганску сегодня весь день шпарят Грады и авиация. Трупов мирных жителей столько, что скоро хватит на еще один Боинг. Но «мировому сообществу» насрать. Славяне — не люди, нас не жалко.

Пожалуй, этот мир действительно достоин того, чтобы сгореть в ядреном огне. Надо было Хрущеву нажать тогда на кнопку, в 62-м. Может разумные осьминоги, ну или кто там придёт после нас, будут хотя бы чуть добрее и честнее.

Originally Posted by RedFox

bobik_57 - Вот и первые признаки БЧ. Сбивал не "Бук-М1"
Самолёт был поражен осколочно-стержневой боевой частью.

I would wait for real experts, before jumping to conclusions.
Same picture, different opinion - https://twitter.com/vilnezheettya/st...837952/photo/1

Originally Posted by RedFox

Для меня вывод недвусмысленный. Самолёт сбила украинская авиация.

This should be much-much easier to detect than the missile because of the speed.

Russia is silent on this today but the West is already unwrapped all the propaganda guns and firing at will, many people already "sure" that it was the rebels and they got their weapons from Russia. It's massive brainwashing with no real evidence.
Some people however see resemblance of the tactics that were used "proving" Iraqi WMD.

I tried to investigate a little and I came to conclusion that Ukrainian "Buk" systems (location info has been reported by Russia) are pretty far from the crash site. They could have shot down the plane but it's a big stretch.
Here is the map.

1.jpg