Thread: Occupy Wall Street around the world.... Your thoughts and feelings about it!

Originally Posted by it-ogo

I am not quite sure what those "occupiers" are up to, but AFAIRemember there were slogans against evil financial corporations (i.e. Wall Street) rather then against companies of real sector. So, let us don't mix up everything. Financial corporations produce nothing, they only trade money for money and they are richest: absolute majority of richest companies are pure financial. And they can crash real sector as crisis shown: unsuccessful trading virtual money for virtual money can kill real economy. Financiers don't force you to loan money but if you don't, one day you can find that without credit history you are considered unreliable person and can not, for example, rent a car.In fact, your rights and possibilities become limited.

Aren't those reasons enough for some protests?

I could partially relate to what you said, but let's consider just another aspect of it. Indeed, money is not a real product in terms that a person can't consume money. So, anyone who would trade money for money seemingly would not generate anything useful. Right? Not quite. There's a very complex problem of the resource distribution that market economy allegedly is trying to solve by means of the fluctuations around the optimal proportions at that specific time. Money becomes the means of the economical assessment. For example, what is that evil bank interest? Ultimately, that is an assessment of the prospective chances of a new enterprise producing profit. The riskier the enterprise, the greater the interest up to the point where the assessment of risks and feasibility stops being convincing to the individual or group investors. (And, yes, there's a whole science on how to become more convincing and get lower interest, but that's another story.) Similarly, the other types of 'securities' are interconnected and mutually dependent to the point the system becomes so complex that it just stops making sense to the outside auditor. And yes, this system is fault-tolerating only to the point of the first significant failure at which point the pessimism of the investors outweighs their previous optimism and the money is being pulled off the more risky enterprises and put into the less risky enterprises, which causes the enterprises to slow down their production (or shut it down completely) forcing the other waves of fluctuations collectively named a financial crisis. There are very few things you could really control as the entire system of production is ultimately based on either optimism of the investors or their pessimism both being quite subjective. So, some economists are trying to control those emotions and make predictions based on the previous history. How successful are those economists? Again, that is purely subjective. Some leaders can absolutely assure there would be no default and announce the default the very next day. And so on. As you can see, you have to really grow a thick skin to deal with that situation.

So, now some very concerned people march their way into the Wall Street and openly declare: PEOPLE! THE SITUATION IS NOT THAT GREAT! Are they right? Of course, they are! Thanks for raising the concern as they probably were under impression everyone else was apparently in oblivion the market economy is sent to the Earth from the Heaven. B-U-T!! What do they propose? Social revolution? More control on the banks [and create more corrupted officials and more politics around that]?

Originally Posted by Crocodile

...There's a very complex problem of the resource distribution that market economy allegedly is trying to solve by means of the fluctuations around the optimal proportions at that specific time...

So, now some very concerned people march their way into the Wall Street and openly declare: PEOPLE! THE SITUATION IS NOT THAT GREAT! Are they right? Of course, they are! Thanks for raising the concern as they probably were under impression everyone else was apparently in oblivion the market economy is sent to the Earth from the Heaven. B-U-T!! What do they propose? Social revolution? More control on the banks [and create more corrupted officials and more politics around that]?

Yep, there is a flexibility of distributing resources. And this flexibility worth some efforts. B-U-T!! Isn't the price too high? There are not only investments to real producing economy but investments to investments (so called derivatives) and even more indirect investments. And the real economy feels like Cinderella among these derivatives because overall there are much more money than real economy costs. It is like flipped-over pyramid. And you really expect stability and longevity from such a construction? This is not market economy. This is Matrix economy, Neo.

What they propose? What does your body propose, when you feel a pain? Social revolution? I think it propose to use brain and find a way to improve the situation. NOW!!!

Originally Posted by it-ogo

This is Matrix economy, Neo.

It might be, Morpheus. And the reason seems to me that the real products do not worth that much these days. As you know, the market economy causes more goods and services to be created at the cheaper prices. So, one of the very real consequences is the overproduction of the goods and services. One of the ways around that threat is the innovation. New products create new markets and make the old markets (goods and services) obsolete. So, at some point, the chance had also become measurable in money thus becoming a very real service. That has created ForEx and other thin-air matter which some people might perceive as the Matrix.

Originally Posted by it-ogo

What they propose? What does your body propose, when you feel a pain? Social revolution? I think it propose to use brain and find a way to improve the situation. NOW!!!

Would they be just a bit more specific?