Thread: Local people comment what happened in Mariupol at 9th May (video) + related

Originally Posted by Lampada

Хоть бы по-русски троллил, и то б была какая-то от этого польза.

А тебе самой не стыдно репостить бред "дочерей офицеров", пытающихся оправдать укромерзости и в конец изолгавшихся? Тьфу, противно.
Вот история редактирований поста - очевидно, что эта тварь сидит и на ходу сочиняет:

Originally Posted by UhOhXplode

Thanks for the transcripts! That really helps and I think it's important for news like that to reach other Western people who can't transliterate Russian youtubes.

this is the actual report in the Sunday Times.

Pinned to the ground by blizzard of bullets | The Sunday Times

My face is pressed so hard into the ground I can taste the dirt. I am wearing a brand new flak jacket and helmet, but I feel completely exposed.
Around me a fierce battle is raging between Ukrainian soldiers defending a border crossing with Russia and pro-Moscow separatists fighting to capture it. Dmitry Beliakov, a photographer for this paper, and I are caught in the middle.
Bullets whizz around us, cutting the air with a distinctive whistle and a metallic ping as they repeatedly hit an armoured personnel carrier (APC) a few yards away from us already riddled with holes

Their faces are covered with sweat and dirt. One of them was wounded in the arm, lying in the mud, while his companion bandage his wound. Another makes it antishock injection in the thigh.
My left Lyudmila only woman joined the fighters, experienced nurse, now in the form of a field of clothing

This is auto translated and not edited. It goes on like this for most of the article. It really gives a poor impression. Is that the best Sunday Times can do?
Plus - you are supposed to take out a subscription to read it!

Originally Posted by Hanna

This is auto translated and not edited. It goes on like this for most of the article.
Is that the best Sunday Times can do?

yes. it's probly translated back from inopressa.ru translation. http://inopressa.ru/article/09jun201...aytimes/ukr_fr
I think i better delete it and loook for original text/

No, no - I don't think that's necessary. It's readable. I was just surprised that Sunday times would publish something of that quality. Personally, I can never follow descriptions of battles anyway, so it's lost on me, at least.

The narrative for this has already been set in the West. Most people only take in the headlines of what's right under their noses. Here is what English speaking people, and Europeans now believe:

• Euromaidan were freedom fighters who overthrew a Moscow puppet dictator
• Russia invaded Crimea militarily against the will of many in the population, after a fake/rigged referendum.
• Everything bad that happened since then, particlularly in the East, is Russia's fault.
• The Eastern rebels are terrorists supported logistically from Moscow.
• Putin is doing this due to "Russian imperialism" and/or dreams about resurrecting the USSR.
• All this proves Russia is a threat to Europe and must be stopped from meddling in other countries.

We have at least two people participating in this thread, who believe exactly this.

Also: Ukraine is "old news" now - ISIS and Iraq is the latest story. Another country f-cked up by Western intervention.

Originally Posted by Hanna

No, no - I don't think that's necessary. It's readable. I was just surprised that Sunday times would publish something of that quality.

th sunday times - charges for every article to read online. Even old ones.

BTW. If Franchetti doesn't lie in that report, i can say that there was no one respetively trained and experienced. NO ONE!

The narrative for this has already been set in the West. Most people only take in the headlines of what's right under their noses. Here is what English speaking people, and Europeans now believe:


Euromaidan were freedom fighters who overthrew a Moscow puppet dictator
Russia invaded Crimea militarily against the will of many in the population, after a fake/rigged referendum.
Everything bad that happened since then, particlularly in the East, is Russia's fault.
The Eastern rebels are terrorists supported logistically from Moscow.
Putin is doing this due to "Russian imperialism" and/or dreams about resurrecting the USSR.
All this proves Russia is a threat to Europe and must be stopped from meddling in other countries.

that was expected. I'm not surprised and see no problem

Originally Posted by Alex_krsk

th sunday times - charges for every article to read online. Even old ones.

BTW. If Franchetti doesn't lie in that report, i can say that there was no one respetively trained and experienced. NO ONE!

The actual paper copy is really nice - as thick as a book, with lots of magazines and things included. But the online version seems terrible.

But really, Ukrainians would have to kill several Western (as opposed to Russian) journalists before they admit that they are anything other than a friendly peace-keeping anti-terrorist squad.

I think something like 3 Russian media people were already killed in Ukraine by the way.

There ARE Western people who understand that the newspapers are not reporting truthfully. But unless they speak Russian or can sit glued to RT there is no source of alternative info.

Originally Posted by Basil77

... - очевидно, что эта тварь сидит и на ходу сочиняет: ...

Значит, всё это враньё. Тогда хорошо, а то народ там на ФБ расстраивается.

Originally Posted by Alex_krsk

this is the actual report in the Sunday Times.

Pinned to the ground by blizzard of bullets | The Sunday Times

My face is pressed so hard into the ground I can taste the dirt. I am wearing a brand new flak jacket and helmet, but I feel completely exposed.
Around me a fierce battle is raging between Ukrainian soldiers defending a border crossing with Russia and pro-Moscow separatists fighting to capture it. Dmitry Beliakov, a photographer for this paper, and I are caught in the middle.
Bullets whizz around us, cutting the air with a distinctive whistle and a metallic ping as they repeatedly hit an armoured personnel carrier (APC) a few yards away from us already riddled with holes

Thanks! I saw that before you deleted and I copied & pasted it. That was a very interesting article and it's something I've never seen in the other news medias. All the media ever wants to discuss is the politics, not the war. I don't think they want anyone to know what war is really all about.

Btw, I thought it-ogo is a him. Just so everyone knows, so am I.
Anyway, I think this whole crisis will end badly. I think the Ukrainian army will probably fall apart and start another revolution because I don't think those people in Kiev know how to run a country. Has Ukraine ever been stable for more than a few years without pro-Russian leadership?

Originally Posted by Hanna

No, no - I don't think that's necessary. It's readable. I was just surprised that Sunday times would publish something of that quality. Personally, I can never follow descriptions of battles anyway, so it's lost on me, at least.

The narrative for this has already been set in the West. Most people only take in the headlines of what's right under their noses. Here is what English speaking people, and Europeans now believe:

• Euromaidan were freedom fighters who overthrew a Moscow puppet dictator
• Russia invaded Crimea militarily against the will of many in the population, after a fake/rigged referendum.
• Everything bad that happened since then, particlularly in the East, is Russia's fault.
• The Eastern rebels are terrorists supported logistically from Moscow.
• Putin is doing this due to "Russian imperialism" and/or dreams about resurrecting the USSR.
• All this proves Russia is a threat to Europe and must be stopped from meddling in other countries.

We have at least two people participating in this thread, who believe exactly this.

Also: Ukraine is "old news" now - ISIS and Iraq is the latest story. Another country f-cked up by Western intervention.

I don't understand this rant. You are speaking for all English speakers and Europeans as to what they believe. You say most poeple only read certain headlines and don't read beyond that. Do you think that all people beyond a certain line drawn on the European continent have no ability to read and you know exactly what they are thinking?

Anyway who cares what some parties think; the general feeling in Ukraine is:
Maidan movement was a fight against corruption. The people who died there are mourned.
Russia took Crimea, but someday Crimea will be returned to Ukraine
Language is not really that important as most people speak both (although, and this is just my opinion, there's more emphasis on Ukrainian language compared to a few years ago, which is ironic since Yanokovich poked fun at it yet during this time more stuff was written in Ukrainian)
Russia was supporting rebels in the East (people even 200km from border say this)
The idea that there are fascists running around and disrupting the lives of ordinary people is a deliberate lie

Based on the above, it's not possible to align with Russia.

In the end, it doesn't matter what BBC, Fox, or RT says

Fine bytemare. So please link to an article in a mainstream English speaking newspaper or news site that tries to explain both sides of the story, or be nuanced about the events in Eastern Ukraine. Or can be neutral when reporting about Russia or Putin. I challenge you.
Meanwhile I can link to 100 that are about as nuanced as black wall.

How are people going to get both sides of the story, if only one is shown to them?
For people who only read English and don't make a major there is only one official narrative.

Alternatively; try arguing the point of view of the rebels, in an English speaking forum and see how far you get before you are either banned or turn the whole forum against you, and get accused of being a Russian psy-ops agent. They hardly have a balanced or deep understanding about it - but no lack of prejudiced comments and opinions!

The debate will quickly move on from Ukraine to Stalin, Pussy riot, homosexuals, communism, Khodorkovsky, Litvinovsky, gulags..... etc! No stereotyping :irony: ..(if you ask me, they've been brainwashed on the matter of Russia and can't think rationally about anything relating to Russia).

People like 14Russian is a fairly average representation of what the average continental European person believes about what's going on in Ukraine, or Russia in general and its history.

If you take UHox, not only does he read basic Russian and has gone to great lengths to inform himself. He is definitely not a representation of regular Americans, quite the opposite. The average person skims through the headlines and a few paragraphs of an article at best. Or watch the 5 minute slot about this on some news channel.

The anti Russia stance at the moment in Europe is particularly bad in the UK, Scandinavia and parts of Eastern Europe. Plus of course the USA. Southern Europe, I think is less biased and more open minded.

But I think elsewhere in the world: Africa, Asia, Middle East South America... Russia is actually winning A LOT of sympathy and respect recently. I came across a few articles in Asian and African papers - they are less prejudiced and make judgement based on facts not on propaganda, stereotypes or wishful thinking.

And remember: Russia did not start the series of events in Ukraine, AT all. It's reacted to it: Somewhat opportunistic in the case of Crimea, but not against the wishes of the locals there. And it has behaved a bit ambigously and mysteriously in relation to Eastern Ukraine - but it's right in Russia's backyard, and many of the people involved are more or less Russians. So it's virtually impossible for Russia to stay completely detached.

Originally Posted by bytemare

Maidan movement was a fight against corruption. The people who died there are mourned.

Yes it was against corruption. Do you know who Poroshenko was in Yanukovich's govmnt? Minister of economy - Irony. or...
There one more question - what neo-nazism has to do with anti-corruption movement. (Deleted. L.) And these started long before january 2014.
But besides all these, the main point is - it's so freaking familiar!!!!! The copy of russia in 90s!!! Exactly the same schedule : Protest => Some die and become heroes => coup detat =>extreme corruption growth => extreme poverty growth => war

Originally Posted by Hanna

Fine bytemare. So please link to an article in a mainstream English speaking newspaper or news site that tries to explain both sides of the story, or be nuanced about the events in Eastern Ukraine. Or can be neutral when reporting about Russia or Putin. I challenge you.
Meanwhile I can link to 100 that are about as nuanced as black wall.

How are people going to get both sides of the story, if only one is shown to them?
For people who only read English and don't make a major there is only one official narrative.

Alternatively; try arguing the point of view of the rebels, in an English speaking forum and see how far you get before you are either banned or turn the whole forum against you, and get accused of being a Russian psy-ops agent. They hardly have a balanced or deep understanding about it - but no lack of prejudiced comments and opinions!

The debate will quickly move on from Ukraine to Stalin, Pussy riot, homosexuals, communism, Khodorkovsky, Litvinovsky, gulags..... etc! No stereotyping :irony: ..(if you ask me, they've been brainwashed on the matter of Russia and can't think rationally about anything relating to Russia).

People like 14Russian is a fairly average representation of what the average continental European person believes about what's going on in Ukraine, or Russia in general and its history.

If you take UHox, not only does he read basic Russian and has gone to great lengths to inform himself. He is definitely not a representation of regular Americans, quite the opposite. The average person skims through the headlines and a few paragraphs of an article at best. Or watch the 5 minute slot about this on some news channel.

The anti Russia stance at the moment in Europe is particularly bad in the UK, Scandinavia and parts of Eastern Europe. Plus of course the USA. Southern Europe, I think is less biased and more open minded.

But I think elsewhere in the world: Africa, Asia, Middle East South America... Russia is actually winning A LOT of sympathy and respect recently. I came across a few articles in Asian and African papers - they are less prejudiced and make judgement based on facts not on propaganda, stereotypes or wishful thinking.

And remember: Russia did not start the series of events in Ukraine, AT all. It's reacted to it: Somewhat opportunistic in the case of Crimea, but not against the wishes of the locals there. And it has behaved a bit ambigously and mysteriously in relation to Eastern Ukraine - but it's right in Russia's backyard, and many of the people involved are more or less Russians. So it's virtually impossible for Russia to stay completely detached.

Why do you want me to link to English mainstream articles? This crisis has been going on for months, actually with origins going back several years. In any language it would take an encyclopaedia to explain all the nuances. You again generalize all people west of an imaginary line in Europe as not being able to read full articles or search for news on their own that interests them.

So what if there's a bias in some places against Russia? In Russia there is some recent bias against parts of Europe and the USA. Who cares? My post wasn't concerned with that though, my post was a reaction to you writing that people in the west are unable or unwilling to read full news articles. I also just wanted to point out that your generalizations about what English speaking people doesn''t really make any difference, true or not. On this topic, it's about Ukraine, and what I posted above seems to represent the general thought there (but there are deviations, like "what do we need the European Union for?") . So while Russia might be gaining sympathy in some parts of the world (I have no evidence of this, I just read it from your post), quite the opposite, unfortunately, is happening in Ukraine.

Originally Posted by Alex_krsk

Yes it was against corruption. Do you know who Poroshenko was in Yanukovich's govmnt? Minister of economy - Irony. or...
There one more question - what neo-nazism has to do with anti-corruption movement. Main slogans of maidan, amongst the others, were: "Москалiв на ножi", "Москаляку на гiляку" e.t.c. And these started long before january 2014.
But besides all these, the main point is - it's so freaking familiar!!!!! The copy of russia in 90s!!! Exactly the same schedule : Protest => Some die and become heroes => coup detat =>extreme corruption growth => extreme poverty growth => war

Yes I know about him, and will say his chocolate and cakes really are good. I dare to say better than krasnii oktyabr
The slogans on the Maidan persists, along with the tents :/
It is familiar, in fact people even want a "strong" leader like Lukashenko for stability. And I think the word stability means much more in the mind of the east than the west. There have never been really good candidates there for president, well, in my opinion ONLY (I didn't read that anywhere)

Originally Posted by Alex_krsk

There one more question - what neo-nazism has to do with anti-corruption movement. (Deleted. L.) And these started long before january 2014.

Стыдно стало?

Вот вам и ответы на все вопросы.

А мне интересно, что там за грязные лозунги были.

Originally Posted by Alex_krsk

Стыдно стало?

Вот вам и ответы на все вопросы.

Конечно, стыдно и грустно. И возмутительно для любого нормального человека. Копировать сюда грязные призывы? Мне стыдно за тебя тоже.

Originally Posted by Lampada

Копировать сюда грязные призывы?

Если человек их не провозглашал, а только скопировал, чтобы обосновать свою точку зрения, и даже (могу только предполагать) предлагал их осудить, то в чем проблема? Может, хватит мешать людям обмениваться мнениями в этом форуме?

(Чувствую, закрытие очередной темы не за горами.)

Originally Posted by lodka

Если человек их не провозглашал, а только скопировал, чтобы обосновать свою точку зрения, и даже (могу только предполагать) предлагал их осудить, то в чем проблема? Может, хватит мешать людям обмениваться мнениями в этом форуме?

(Чувствую, закрытие очередной темы не за горами.)

Да нет, пожалуйста, выражайте своё мнение, но троллить запрещено, а также выражать неуважение к форумчанам. Вам предупреждение за неуважительное обращение к модератору: "хватит мешать".

Вам предупреждение за неуважительное обращение к модератору: "хватит мешать".

И себе заодно не забудьте вынести предупреждение за неуважительную по отношению к одному из форумчан фразу "Хоть бы по-русски троллил, и то б была какая-то от этого польза."