Thread: Local people comment what happened in Mariupol at 9th May (video) + related

Originally Posted by bytemare

his chocolate and cakes really are good.

По моего - нет, не очень. А я думаю, может быть продажи его шоколадом уменьшит в России...

Originally Posted by Hanna

По моего - нет, не очень. А я думаю, может быть продажи его шоколадом уменьшит в России...

Лежат в магазинах как и раньше. Кто раньше покупал тот вроде и сейчас покупает.

Originally Posted by Hanna

По моего - нет, не очень. А я думаю, может быть продажи его шоколадом уменьшит в России...

Я покупала здесь в польском магазине. Не понимала названия, пока Порошенка не выбрали "шоколадным" президентом.

По-моему,
, может быть, (с обеих сторон берётся в запятые)
продажа его шоколада
уменьшится

Thanks for the correction Aha! Now I get it, with his name....

Well, I am a bit of a chocoholic, so I always notice what the local chocolate brand is if I travel somewhere. It looks very nice, but I didn't like the taste.. I have seen it here in the UK, in a Polish store, lol. I guess Poles like it then.

Originally Posted by Lampada

... Мне стыдно за тебя тоже.

Прошу прощения.
По глупому недомыслию я запостил то что возмутительно для любого нормального человека.
Прощу прощения у уважаемых участников дискуссии, кого мог оскорбить этот

(Deleted. L.)

безобразный образец троллинга.
Демонстрировать эти грязные призывы почтенной публике было отвратительно с моей стороны.

Прошу великодушно меня простить.
и впредь ещё более активно указывать на мои промахи и недостатки.

Alex_krsk, people get banned for such posts here, especially with pro-Russian point of view, I would suggest to calm down a bit.

Originally Posted by bytemare

Why do you want me to link to English mainstream articles? This crisis has been going on for months, actually with origins going back several years. In any language it would take an encyclopaedia to explain all the nuances. You again generalize all people west of an imaginary line in Europe as not being able to read full articles or search for news on their own that interests them.

Because Western leaders require public approval when they stage violent coups against legitimate governments. Without public approval, they are committing political suicide.
Let's level-up to reality: Public approval = most people in a Western nation support their leaders' plans. To get that much approval, they have to control the media.
I have lots of time to learn Russian and explore the reality of what's really happening. But most Americans don't. I've read that the majority of Americans have to deal with multiple jobs, their families, taxes, daily chores, etc etc. And they want some free-time to chill or have fun. That leaves very little time for reading or watching the media. But hey, if you've read one American media source then you already know what every other American media source is saying.

Originally Posted by bytemare

So what if there's a bias in some places against Russia? In Russia there is some recent bias against parts of Europe and the USA. Who cares? My post wasn't concerned with that though, my post was a reaction to you writing that people in the west are unable or unwilling to read full news articles. I also just wanted to point out that your generalizations about what English speaking people doesn''t really make any difference, true or not. On this topic, it's about Ukraine, and what I posted above seems to represent the general thought there (but there are deviations, like "what do we need the European Union for?") . So while Russia might be gaining sympathy in some parts of the world (I have no evidence of this, I just read it from your post), quite the opposite, unfortunately, is happening in Ukraine.

That's a dangerous statement. It could also be read, "So what if there's a bias in some places against Ukraine?". That bias supports political decisions that have invaded and destroyed other nations.
And btw, any recent Russian bias towards parts of Europe and the USA is understandable, considering the massive Western bias towards Russia. I'm only surprised that the Russian bias didn't start a lot sooner than it did.
Trust me, the majority of people in the US aren't extremely intelligent, aren't willing to take time out to explore foreign affairs, and are the same majority that supported illegal and questionable wars.
That's why Hanna's generalizations are very important. The West couldn't make the decisions and policies it makes without them.
Never underestimate the power of people or the power of governments to control their opinions. Suggested reading, Sun Tzu, The Art of War:
Sonshi.com | Original Sun Tzu's Art of War translation (not Giles) It's a lot about the power of disinformation.

Originally Posted by Hanna

....If you take UHox, not only does he read basic Russian and has gone to great lengths to inform himself. He is definitely not a representation of regular Americans, quite the opposite. The average person skims through the headlines and a few paragraphs of an article at best. Or watch the 5 minute slot about this on some news channel.

Thanks. Btw, I'm getting very proficient at typing Russian too on my English keyboard. And you're definitely correct. Most Americans believe anything the American media tells them and they don't really care. But the American media is only there to support politicians and oligarchs and thinking out of the box is not considered politically correct in the US. Atm, it would be very easy for American politicians to get the support they needed to start saturation bombings of Germany or France. It's basically anything that the politicians and the oligarchs want. All they need is their media and a believable story-line.

Originally Posted by Hanna

And remember: Russia did not start the series of events in Ukraine, AT all. It's reacted to it: Somewhat opportunistic in the case of Crimea, but not against the wishes of the locals there. And it has behaved a bit ambigously and mysteriously in relation to Eastern Ukraine - but it's right in Russia's backyard, and many of the people involved are more or less Russians. So it's virtually impossible for Russia to stay completely detached.

When Ukraine rose up against Russia, Crimea became a serious National security threat to the SW. It's very fortunate that the Crimean people supported the annexation. Also, Russia will never give up Crimea. If Ukraine wants it back, it will have to fight the Russian military and that wouldn't end well for Ukraine or Europe.
About SE Ukraine. I think what President Putin is trying to avoid is another Yugoslavia. The US is already involved militarily and the government obviously supports geonocides. So does Western Ukraine.

And about Roshen chocolates. They were added to our boycott list when Poroshenko deployed the military against it's own people. There's just too many other amazing chocolatiers out there to ever consider buying it again. Btw, I love Belgian chocolate, especially with hazelnuts!

Originally Posted by UhOhXplode

They were added to our boycott list when Poroshenko deployed the military against it's own people.

Who REALLY are you?

Originally Posted by Eric C.

Who REALLY are you?

I'm a frustrated American 16 yo with an extremely high IQ and a strong Christian conscience. I'm all over alternative rock, metal, shoegaze, post punk, skramz, club, and hardstyle music - you may have noticed that my avatar has everything to do with Wasted Penguinz. I'm also very much into rollerblades, tech, experimental styles (for example, Pinn Panelle), robotics, aeronautics, gaming, hockey, and cooking. I'm 5'3", weigh about 100 lbs, my natural hair color is strawberry blonde, and I have green eyes. Oh, and I'm an active swimmer and diver...
Your turn. Who REALLY are you?

Originally Posted by UhOhXplode

I'm a frustrated American 16 yo with an extremely high IQ and a strong Christian conscience. I'm all over alternative rock, metal, shoegaze, post punk, skramz, club, and hardstyle music - you may have noticed that my avatar has everything to do with Wasted Penguinz. I'm also very much into rollerblades, tech, experimental styles (for example, Pinn Panelle), robotics, aeronautics, gaming, hockey, and cooking. I'm 5'3", weigh about 100 lbs, my natural hair color is strawberry blonde, and I have green eyes. Oh, and I'm an active swimmer and diver...
Your turn. Who REALLY are you?

I'm a not-so-much-frustrated-yet earth resident, 25 y.o. with a high enough IQ and a liberal conscience, though Christianity is my native religion too. I'm into different sorts of metal, and hard rock too. My majors are programming, both online/offline gaming (FPS mostly), and quite often --- useless web surfing like this. =)) My activities mostly imply the indoor way of life, though I also like and do swimming and bike riding. I'm 5'8'', weigh about 150 lbs, my natural hair color is black, my eyes are blue. Oh, and I use the pronoun "my" when talking about myself, not "our". =))

Originally Posted by Eric C.

I'm a not-so-much-frustrated-yet earth resident, 25 y.o. with a high enough IQ and a liberal conscience, though Christianity is my native religion too. I'm into different sorts of metal, and hard rock too. My majors are programming, both online/offline gaming (FPS mostly), and quite often --- useless web surfing like this. =)) My activities mostly imply the indoor way of life, though I also like and do swimming and bike riding. I'm 5'8'', weigh about 150 lbs, my natural hair color is black, my eyes are blue. Oh, and I use the pronoun "my" when talking about myself, not "our". =))

Cool. 25 yo isn't that old so basically we're just 2 young people with different ideas that don't get too personal about our opinions. I mean, discussing politics is new so it's very interesting but no way it trumps checking out new bands or new rollerblade tricks or even trips to the water parks. And yeah, I noticed that a lot of 21+ people are all over hard rock or classic rock but I like hearing new stuff (like the new Of Mice and Men album, totally does pwn, btw!).
Anyway, when I said "our boycott list", I meant me and my family's. My parents are boycotting Nestle too. I would never call myself "our", lol!
Btw, since you like metal, check out Of Mice and Men, Bones Exposed. Highly recommended. Highly evolved.

Originally Posted by UhOhXplode

Btw, since you like metal, check out Of Mice and Men, Bones Exposed. Highly recommended. Highly evolved.

That thing is pretty cool, such a melodic thrash core, kinda reminds me of how I used to listen to Slipknot everyday as a student, lol ; but here every part seems to be much more intense, both the thrash core and melodic solo; the music vid rocks, btw --- looks just like my 1000th date in the town xDDD

Well anyone young would be wise to bear in mind that the average age among the Russian fully English speaking participants here, is a lot higher than both Eric and UHox.

Many of the people here have personally lived through Soviet socialism, perestroika, the wild and destructive 90s in Russia, and the modern era with Putin.

They are people who managed to learn a quite different foreign language to full fluency either because of hard studies or due to moving country - which in itself is an experience that teaches a person a lot.

So in light of what I that, it's well worth listening carefully to what people like Alex, Lampada, SergeMak, Basil77, Crocodile (although he's taking a vacation from the forum), diogen(?), Iodka(?) and many others have to say (there are others, I think, but i am less sure of their age ranges, or they are less frequent participants).

They don't represent one unanimous viewpoint, but a spectrum, hence giving a broad but trustworthy source of information.

You don't have to agree with everything they say, but you should certainly respect that they are likely to have a much more relevant and well-founded view than somebody who doesn't live in the region, isn't a native Russian speaker and is too young to have a broad and mature perspective on the political, economic and social changes that Russia and the other USSR countries went through!

So take the opportunity to learn from people who had some very unique and interesting experiences and have been around on this planet a while longer than yourselves, instead of being prejudiced and hostile. If you do not agree with somebody, try to understand what causes that person to have a different viewpoint.

Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.

Originally Posted by Alex_krsk

Trolling. Вытерто. Л.

The problem is, of all the people out there, it's mainly Ukrainians and Russians who are involved in endless arguments about the counter-terrorist operation in Ukraine. I can see why the Ukrainians are --- it's their country after all. But what about you, Russian guys? You may not notice that, but you're acting like you really have a share in that conflict, while even the official position of your country is that you're just observers. So you ARE involved, or still not? Or, maybe, you just like arguing so much you just can't resist using every opportunity? That is just confusing...

Originally Posted by Eric C.

But what about you, Russian guys?
you ARE involved, or still not?
That is just confusing...

It's a really good question. I think many western people really can't understand what is the problem, and why people in the East Ukraine rebeled, and why Russians support them.

The key question here is the attitude to the WWII, and its heroes/antiheroes, and the 9th May (Victory Day). This is absolutely the key question. The treatment of veterans, the purpose to abolish the Victory Day, to make, officially, national heroes out of people like Bandera and others... and so on, and so on. You people in the west and especially in the USA have no idea how deep is that war in every Russian's blood. So yes, we ARE involved.
I am repeating, WWII is the key question.

having to emphasize an 'extremely high IQ' more often than not points to the opposite being true ...and if not then at least to a lacking level of maturity

Originally Posted by Eric C.

That thing is pretty cool, such a melodic thrash core, kinda reminds me of how I used to listen to Slipknot everyday as a student, lol ; but here every part seems to be much more intense, both the thrash core and melodic solo; the music vid rocks, btw --- looks just like my 1000th date in the town xDDD

Thrash metal FTW! And yeah, their style's a lot like The Devil Wears Prada, The World Alive, or maybe even Attack Attack (well, without the pop elements mixed in). There's so many cool bands out there. I hear a lot about Slipknot at the music forums and total props for that band. I really need to check them out more. Lol @ the 1000th date but yeah, that vid pwns too.

Originally Posted by Hanna

Well anyone young would be wise to bear in mind that the average age among the Russian fully English speaking participants here, is a lot higher than both Eric and UHox.
Many of the people here have personally lived through Soviet socialism, perestroika, the wild and destructive 90s in Russia, and the modern era with Putin.
They are people who managed to learn a quite different foreign language to full fluency either because of hard studies or due to moving country - which in itself is an experience that teaches a person a lot.
So in light of what I that, it's well worth listening carefully to what people like Alex, Lampada, SergeMak, Basil77, Crocodile (although he's taking a vacation from the forum), diogen(?), Iodka(?) and many others have to say (there are others, I think, but i am less sure of their age ranges, or they are less frequent participants).
They don't represent one unanimous viewpoint, but a spectrum, hence giving a broad but trustworthy source of information.
You don't have to agree with everything they say, but you should certainly respect that they are likely to have a much more relevant and well-founded view than somebody who doesn't live in the region, isn't a native Russian speaker and is too young to have a broad and mature perspective on the political, economic and social changes that Russia and the other USSR countries went through!
So take the opportunity to learn from people who had some very unique and interesting experiences and have been around on this planet a while longer than yourselves, instead of being prejudiced and hostile. If you do not agree with somebody, try to understand what causes that person to have a different viewpoint.

Yeah, that's why we have the 89er's day parade every year - to commemorate and learn about the Oklahoma land rush in 1889 (our State's only 125 years old). But we don't have a Perestroika day parade so this is the best place to learn about that. But don't forget, we weren't even alive when all that happened so it's easier for older people to discuss - We have to learn the history first before we can even post.

Originally Posted by eisenherz

having to emphasize an 'extremely high IQ' more often than not points to the opposite being true ...and if not then at least to a lacking level of maturity

It's true but it was only a defensive statement. And I really hope you don't believe that learning curves are more important than who somebody is. I think me and Eric just proved that they aren't.
And you do know that a lot of important scientific discoveries were made by people with average IQ's, right? So no, it's really not an epic issue.

@ UhOh - ok, fair enough...

Пытаюсь рассказать сыну про события в Украине. Слушал, слушал и спрашивает: "А кто там Левые?". (Хочет быть на стороне левых).
Я: - Да не знаю. Вроде нет Левых. Есть Правые.
Сын: А партия "Свобода"? (Не знаю, где услышал).

Умора с ним! Нравится ему слово свобода.

Originally Posted by Lampada

Пытаюсь рассказать сыну про события в Украине. Слушал, слушал и спрашивает: "А кто там Левые?". (Хочет быть на стороне левых).
Я: - Да не знаю. Вроде нет Левых. Есть Правые.
Сын: А партия "Свобода"? (Не знаю, где услышал).

Умора с ним! Нравится ему слово свобода.

Дай ему почитать вот этут статью (специально даю ссылку на уважаемое американское издание, чтобы не транслировать "путинскую пропаганду"):

The Silence of American Hawks About Kiev’s Atrocities | The Nation

А насчёт так называемой партии "Свобода"... Вот цитата из википедии (статья про Бабий Яр):

За два дня 29-30 сентября 1941 зондеркоманда 4а под командованием штандартенфюрера Пауля Блобеля (входившая в состав айнзатцгруппы С под командованием д-ра Раше) при участии^{[уточнить]} частей вермахта (6-й армии) и украинской вспомогательной полиции расстреляли в этом овраге 33 771 человека (это количество не включает малолетних детей до 3-х лет, которых тоже убивали в эти два дня, но не считали^[6]). На этом расстрелы не прекратились. Дальнейшие расстрелы евреев прошли 1, 2, 8 и 11 октября 1941.

Так вот, для партии "Свобода", эти ребятки из "украинской вспомогательной полиции", которыми руководили эсэсовцы, являются национальными героями.