Thread: Local people comment what happened in Mariupol at 9th May (video) + related

No, no - I don't think that's necessary. It's readable. I was just surprised that Sunday times would publish something of that quality. Personally, I can never follow descriptions of battles anyway, so it's lost on me, at least.

The narrative for this has already been set in the West. Most people only take in the headlines of what's right under their noses. Here is what English speaking people, and Europeans now believe:

• Euromaidan were freedom fighters who overthrew a Moscow puppet dictator
• Russia invaded Crimea militarily against the will of many in the population, after a fake/rigged referendum.
• Everything bad that happened since then, particlularly in the East, is Russia's fault.
• The Eastern rebels are terrorists supported logistically from Moscow.
• Putin is doing this due to "Russian imperialism" and/or dreams about resurrecting the USSR.
• All this proves Russia is a threat to Europe and must be stopped from meddling in other countries.

We have at least two people participating in this thread, who believe exactly this.

Also: Ukraine is "old news" now - ISIS and Iraq is the latest story. Another country f-cked up by Western intervention.

Originally Posted by Hanna

No, no - I don't think that's necessary. It's readable. I was just surprised that Sunday times would publish something of that quality.

th sunday times - charges for every article to read online. Even old ones.

BTW. If Franchetti doesn't lie in that report, i can say that there was no one respetively trained and experienced. NO ONE!

The narrative for this has already been set in the West. Most people only take in the headlines of what's right under their noses. Here is what English speaking people, and Europeans now believe:


Euromaidan were freedom fighters who overthrew a Moscow puppet dictator
Russia invaded Crimea militarily against the will of many in the population, after a fake/rigged referendum.
Everything bad that happened since then, particlularly in the East, is Russia's fault.
The Eastern rebels are terrorists supported logistically from Moscow.
Putin is doing this due to "Russian imperialism" and/or dreams about resurrecting the USSR.
All this proves Russia is a threat to Europe and must be stopped from meddling in other countries.

that was expected. I'm not surprised and see no problem

Originally Posted by Alex_krsk

th sunday times - charges for every article to read online. Even old ones.

BTW. If Franchetti doesn't lie in that report, i can say that there was no one respetively trained and experienced. NO ONE!

The actual paper copy is really nice - as thick as a book, with lots of magazines and things included. But the online version seems terrible.

But really, Ukrainians would have to kill several Western (as opposed to Russian) journalists before they admit that they are anything other than a friendly peace-keeping anti-terrorist squad.

I think something like 3 Russian media people were already killed in Ukraine by the way.

There ARE Western people who understand that the newspapers are not reporting truthfully. But unless they speak Russian or can sit glued to RT there is no source of alternative info.

Originally Posted by Hanna

No, no - I don't think that's necessary. It's readable. I was just surprised that Sunday times would publish something of that quality. Personally, I can never follow descriptions of battles anyway, so it's lost on me, at least.

The narrative for this has already been set in the West. Most people only take in the headlines of what's right under their noses. Here is what English speaking people, and Europeans now believe:

• Euromaidan were freedom fighters who overthrew a Moscow puppet dictator
• Russia invaded Crimea militarily against the will of many in the population, after a fake/rigged referendum.
• Everything bad that happened since then, particlularly in the East, is Russia's fault.
• The Eastern rebels are terrorists supported logistically from Moscow.
• Putin is doing this due to "Russian imperialism" and/or dreams about resurrecting the USSR.
• All this proves Russia is a threat to Europe and must be stopped from meddling in other countries.

We have at least two people participating in this thread, who believe exactly this.

Also: Ukraine is "old news" now - ISIS and Iraq is the latest story. Another country f-cked up by Western intervention.

I don't understand this rant. You are speaking for all English speakers and Europeans as to what they believe. You say most poeple only read certain headlines and don't read beyond that. Do you think that all people beyond a certain line drawn on the European continent have no ability to read and you know exactly what they are thinking?

Anyway who cares what some parties think; the general feeling in Ukraine is:
Maidan movement was a fight against corruption. The people who died there are mourned.
Russia took Crimea, but someday Crimea will be returned to Ukraine
Language is not really that important as most people speak both (although, and this is just my opinion, there's more emphasis on Ukrainian language compared to a few years ago, which is ironic since Yanokovich poked fun at it yet during this time more stuff was written in Ukrainian)
Russia was supporting rebels in the East (people even 200km from border say this)
The idea that there are fascists running around and disrupting the lives of ordinary people is a deliberate lie

Based on the above, it's not possible to align with Russia.

In the end, it doesn't matter what BBC, Fox, or RT says

Originally Posted by bytemare

Maidan movement was a fight against corruption. The people who died there are mourned.

Yes it was against corruption. Do you know who Poroshenko was in Yanukovich's govmnt? Minister of economy - Irony. or...
There one more question - what neo-nazism has to do with anti-corruption movement. (Deleted. L.) And these started long before january 2014.
But besides all these, the main point is - it's so freaking familiar!!!!! The copy of russia in 90s!!! Exactly the same schedule : Protest => Some die and become heroes => coup detat =>extreme corruption growth => extreme poverty growth => war

Originally Posted by Alex_krsk

Yes it was against corruption. Do you know who Poroshenko was in Yanukovich's govmnt? Minister of economy - Irony. or...
There one more question - what neo-nazism has to do with anti-corruption movement. Main slogans of maidan, amongst the others, were: "Москалiв на ножi", "Москаляку на гiляку" e.t.c. And these started long before january 2014.
But besides all these, the main point is - it's so freaking familiar!!!!! The copy of russia in 90s!!! Exactly the same schedule : Protest => Some die and become heroes => coup detat =>extreme corruption growth => extreme poverty growth => war

Yes I know about him, and will say his chocolate and cakes really are good. I dare to say better than krasnii oktyabr
The slogans on the Maidan persists, along with the tents :/
It is familiar, in fact people even want a "strong" leader like Lukashenko for stability. And I think the word stability means much more in the mind of the east than the west. There have never been really good candidates there for president, well, in my opinion ONLY (I didn't read that anywhere)

Originally Posted by bytemare

his chocolate and cakes really are good.

По моего - нет, не очень. А я думаю, может быть продажи его шоколадом уменьшит в России...

Originally Posted by Hanna

По моего - нет, не очень. А я думаю, может быть продажи его шоколадом уменьшит в России...

Лежат в магазинах как и раньше. Кто раньше покупал тот вроде и сейчас покупает.

Originally Posted by Hanna

По моего - нет, не очень. А я думаю, может быть продажи его шоколадом уменьшит в России...

Я покупала здесь в польском магазине. Не понимала названия, пока Порошенка не выбрали "шоколадным" президентом.

По-моему,
, может быть, (с обеих сторон берётся в запятые)
продажа его шоколада
уменьшится

Originally Posted by Alex_krsk

There one more question - what neo-nazism has to do with anti-corruption movement. (Deleted. L.) And these started long before january 2014.

Стыдно стало?

Вот вам и ответы на все вопросы.

Originally Posted by Alex_krsk

Стыдно стало?

Вот вам и ответы на все вопросы.

Конечно, стыдно и грустно. И возмутительно для любого нормального человека. Копировать сюда грязные призывы? Мне стыдно за тебя тоже.

Originally Posted by Lampada

Копировать сюда грязные призывы?

Если человек их не провозглашал, а только скопировал, чтобы обосновать свою точку зрения, и даже (могу только предполагать) предлагал их осудить, то в чем проблема? Может, хватит мешать людям обмениваться мнениями в этом форуме?

(Чувствую, закрытие очередной темы не за горами.)

Originally Posted by lodka

Если человек их не провозглашал, а только скопировал, чтобы обосновать свою точку зрения, и даже (могу только предполагать) предлагал их осудить, то в чем проблема? Может, хватит мешать людям обмениваться мнениями в этом форуме?

(Чувствую, закрытие очередной темы не за горами.)

Да нет, пожалуйста, выражайте своё мнение, но троллить запрещено, а также выражать неуважение к форумчанам. Вам предупреждение за неуважительное обращение к модератору: "хватит мешать".

Originally Posted by Lampada

... Мне стыдно за тебя тоже.

Прошу прощения.
По глупому недомыслию я запостил то что возмутительно для любого нормального человека.
Прощу прощения у уважаемых участников дискуссии, кого мог оскорбить этот

(Deleted. L.)

безобразный образец троллинга.
Демонстрировать эти грязные призывы почтенной публике было отвратительно с моей стороны.

Прошу великодушно меня простить.
и впредь ещё более активно указывать на мои промахи и недостатки.

Originally Posted by Alex_krsk

Trolling. Вытерто. Л.

The problem is, of all the people out there, it's mainly Ukrainians and Russians who are involved in endless arguments about the counter-terrorist operation in Ukraine. I can see why the Ukrainians are --- it's their country after all. But what about you, Russian guys? You may not notice that, but you're acting like you really have a share in that conflict, while even the official position of your country is that you're just observers. So you ARE involved, or still not? Or, maybe, you just like arguing so much you just can't resist using every opportunity? That is just confusing...

Originally Posted by Eric C.

But what about you, Russian guys?
you ARE involved, or still not?
That is just confusing...

It's a really good question. I think many western people really can't understand what is the problem, and why people in the East Ukraine rebeled, and why Russians support them.

The key question here is the attitude to the WWII, and its heroes/antiheroes, and the 9th May (Victory Day). This is absolutely the key question. The treatment of veterans, the purpose to abolish the Victory Day, to make, officially, national heroes out of people like Bandera and others... and so on, and so on. You people in the west and especially in the USA have no idea how deep is that war in every Russian's blood. So yes, we ARE involved.
I am repeating, WWII is the key question.

Originally Posted by Eric C.

The problem is, of all the people out there, it's mainly Ukrainians and Russians who are involved in endless arguments about the counter-terrorist operation in Ukraine. I can see why the Ukrainians are --- it's their country after all. But what about you, Russian guys? You may not notice that, but you're acting like you really have a share in that conflict, while even the official position of your country is that you're just observers. So you ARE involved, or still not? Or, maybe, you just like arguing so much you just can't resist using every opportunity? That is just confusing...

I think I could answer that rather easily.
Most of Ukrainians are Slavs, they also were involved with Russia economically and culturally for many decades and even centuries, until collapse of the USSR. Many Ukrainians speak Russian in every day life.
My mother was born in Central part of Ukraine, West from Kiev and has lived there for 20 years, so she is Ukrainian by blood but Russian by citizenship.
My uncle holds dual citizenship (Russian/Ukrainian).
I have two cousins in Crimea.
To me Ukrainians are no different than my mother or my uncle or my cousins.
Many Russians have relatives in Ukraine as well, I suspect they have similar thoughts.
If you have a good look on Russians and Ukrainians - we are but ONE nation, separated by political games.

Originally Posted by hddscan

I think I could answer that rather easily.
Most of Ukrainians are Slavs, they also were involved with Russia economically and culturally for many decades and even centuries, until collapse of the USSR. Many Ukrainians speak Russian in every day life.
My mother was born in Central part of Ukraine, West from Kiev and has lived there for 20 years, so she is Ukrainian by blood but Russian by citizenship.
My uncle holds dual citizenship (Russian/Ukrainian).
I have two cousins in Crimea.
To me Ukrainians are no different than my mother or my uncle or my cousins.
Many Russians have relatives in Ukraine as well, I suspect they have similar thoughts.
If you have a good look on Russians and Ukrainians - we are but ONE nation, separated by political games.

I hope they become two friendly nations some day. But two nations can't be "one".

Originally Posted by Eric C.

I hope they become two friendly nations some day. But two nations can't be "one".

A nice example of ignorance. Go learn the basics All the way down to how and where Russia descends from?

Originally Posted by iCake

A nice example of ignorance. Go learn the basics All the way down to how and where Russia descends from?

I do know history. Russia chose its own way at the end of the medieval ages, and so did the current Ukrainian lands. You can't just go all the way down and restore what was 1000 years ago. If you think you can, fine --- how about making Ulan Bator your capital based on your confederation with the Mongols in the 13-14th centuries?