Thread: Economic Sanctions against Russia and Russia’s Retaliatory Trade Measures

Никому не кажется, что тема уходит на оффтопиковую взрывоопасную территорию с переходом на личности? Я боюсь, что надежда на уважительные отношения и взаимопонимание пока не оправдывается.
Закрываю на несколько дней.

Тема открывается с требованием взаимоуважительного отношения участников и отсутствия присутствия любой пропаганды.

I think what's most important is the facts.
1. Nobody is being shelled in Crimea since they annexed to Russia. That's a very positive thing.
2. Russia has been sending humanitarian aid convoys to eastern Ukraine. I haven't seen any other country doing that.
3. The sanctions are counterproductive against a country (Russia) that has created a lasting ceasefire in Ukraine. It's not perfect but it is working.
4. If any other country is sending anything but military aid then please let me know. Because I haven't heard about any country, except Russia, helping those people.

Imo, the sanctions are not only counterproductive, the are NOT deserved.

Originally Posted by UhOhXplode

I think what's most important is the facts.
1. Nobody is being shelled in Crimea since they annexed to Russia. That's a very positive thing.
2. Russia has been sending humanitarian aid convoys to eastern Ukraine. I haven't seen any other country doing that.
3. The sanctions are counterproductive against a country (Russia) that has created a lasting ceasefire in Ukraine. It's not perfect but it is working.
4. If any other country is sending anything but military aid then please let me know. Because I haven't heard about any country, except Russia, helping those people.

Imo, the sanctions are not only counterproductive, the are NOT deserved.

For some reason, there are still armed forces in eastern Ukraine who still feel at war with the Ukrainian army, and who aren't willing to put down their guns. Ceasefire may work for a while, but is it the recipe to stop those forces forever? What can be done about those forces, anyway? Reason them? The last few months showed they cannot be reasoned with any logic or common sense at all. So, is there any other way but the military one to get rid of them? If you think it is, please share one.

Originally Posted by UhOhXplode

I think what's most important is the facts.
3. The sanctions are counterproductive against a country (Russia) that has created a lasting ceasefire in Ukraine. It's not perfect but it is working.

I don't think it is working, moreover I don't think it was intended to work. The "ceasefire" targets two things:
1. Elections to Ukrainian Rada. Ukraine needs to stop military actions, at least on paper, to make the elections "lawful"
2. Western press could stop printing disturbing articles about situation in Ukraine, leaving this situation to be solved "behind the curtains" of publicity.

In reality fights continue every day, people die every day and hatred grows between two sides, every day.

Originally Posted by UhOhXplode

4. If any other country is sending anything but military aid then please let me know. Because I haven't heard about any country, except Russia, helping those people.

Germany Sends Humanitarian Convoy to Ukraine | World | RIA Novosti
Власти Украины отправили гуманитарную помощь на Донбасс - Korrespondent.net

Originally Posted by UhOhXplode

Imo, the sanctions are not only counterproductive, the are NOT deserved.

That is only if you think that sanctions were supposed to motivate Russia to do something different about Ukrainian situation.
IMO people who approved sanction couldn't care less about Ukraine. When they say that their target is "economical isolation" of Russia - I believe them. They don't like Russia's economy to grow and that's the real reason for the sanctions and Ukraine is just a convenient cover for this.

Originally Posted by Eric C.

For some reason, there are still armed forces in eastern Ukraine who still feel at war with the Ukrainian army, and who aren't willing to put down their guns. Ceasefire may work for a while, but is it the recipe to stop those forces forever? What can be done about those forces, anyway? Reason them? The last few months showed they cannot be reasoned with any logic or common sense at all. So, is there any other way but the military one to get rid of them? If you think it is, please share one.

How about, there are still Ukrainian troops who still feel at war with the pro-Russian Ukrainians. I totally do believe its happening on both sides. And I have to disagree. The ceasefire and the pull backs prove that the pro-Russian Ukrainians can be reasoned with.
And yes I think there is a better solution than the extermination of the political opposition. Peace and negotiations.

Originally Posted by hddscan

I don't think it is working, moreover I don't think it was intended to work. The "ceasefire" targets two things:
1. Elections to Ukrainian Rada. Ukraine needs to stop military actions, at least on paper, to make the elections "lawful"
2. Western press could stop printing disturbing articles about situation in Ukraine, leaving this situation to be solved "behind the curtains" of publicity.

In reality fights continue every day, people die every day and hatred grows between two sides, every day.

Germany Sends Humanitarian Convoy to Ukraine | World | RIA Novosti
Власти Украины отправили гуманитарную помощь на Донбасс - Korrespondent.net

Imo, the elections in Ukraine will never be lawful. The new government was installed after an illegal and violent coup of the Ukrainian government. That wasn't lawful either.
And yeah, burning people alive and executing Ukrainians brought in for questioning then burying them in mass graves is extremely disturbing. So is shelling hospitals, orphanages, residential areas, and schools. But I really don't believe that the people reading the media are ever involved in the peace process. That's only for the politicians.

But no, I wasn't aware of the reasons for the ceasefire. But at least it can reduce the number of deaths and injuries while they work on solutions. More military aid can't.
And yeah there will be a lot of hating both now and after the crisis is solved. I'm not even there but it's impossible to forget those people being burned alive and the Ukrainians laughing. It's also impossible to forget that old woman crying in her shelled house. Or all the children that died. So yeah, it will probaly be even more impossible for them to forget that nightmare.

Good on Germany! I knew they had discussed sending humanitarian aid but this is the first time I've seen any proof that they were sincere about that. But I did believe they would eventually help out.
I also wasn't aware that the Ukrainian authorities had sent aid last August. But if they did then there must have been a political motivation for helping the people they shelled. Also this:

"Это помощь нашим соотечественникам, оказавшимся в зоне АТО в Донецкой и Луганской областях", - сообщил Бурбак

So I seriously doubt that the Ukrainian aid from Kiev was ever given to anyone but the Kiev supporters. Anyone else that tried to get some of that aid was probaly arrested.

Originally Posted by hddscan

That is only if you think that sanctions were supposed to motivate Russia to do something different about Ukrainian situation.
IMO people who approved sanction couldn't care less about Ukraine. When they say that their target is "economical isolation" of Russia - I believe them. They don't like Russia's economy to grow and that's the real reason for the sanctions and Ukraine is just a convenient cover for this.

I was suspecting that. They know the sanctions won't change Russian policies. And the color revolution was staged right after the very successful Sochi olympics. When I saw all those EU and US politicians on the Maidan, I knew it was an NGO sponsored coup.
After everything I've read in both the western and eastern media, my only conclusion is that the Ukrainian crisis is a western war against Russia.
I believe the west (especially the US) is trying to weaken Moscow and spread unrest so they can take Russia out. Further proof is the fact that they are operating Radio Free Europe again and this time they are especially targeting Crimea.

As Russia seized Crimea from Ukraine in March, the station launched a special website for the peninsula in three languages — Russian, Ukrainian and Tatar.

Radio Free Europe back on the frontline with Russian and Ukrainian broadcasts

The west (especially America) wants more bloodshed and this time they want it in Russia.

Originally Posted by UhOhXplode

Imo, the elections in Ukraine will never be lawful. The new government was installed after an illegal and violent coup of the Ukrainian government. That wasn't lawful either.

But the alternative is complete chaos and unrest. In general people do not want to do meaningless things, even politicians around the world have to agree to some form of government in Ukraine. For example Russia has agreed to call Poroshenko president of Ukraine, even that before Russia was saying that the elections were unlawful

Originally Posted by UhOhXplode

But I really don't believe that the people reading the media are ever involved in the peace process. That's only for the politicians.

People, reading the media, are involved in elections and that's where politicians have to be careful

Originally Posted by UhOhXplode

So I seriously doubt that the Ukrainian aid from Kiev was ever given to anyone but the Kiev supporters.

maybe, I know that Mr. Ahmetov is helping Donbass people with humanitarian aid.

Originally Posted by ninamasji

Vladimir Putin is ok. I analyzed the events in Ukraine. It was a provocation. Analogous to this is what you call an insult to Russian culture. If you come visit Russia and the folks invite you to drink vodka, do not leave the crowd until you and the folks have finished the bottle of vodka. You're acting bourgeoisie if you do that.

Putin is okay for oligarchs, banks and brainwashed people.

This is what he's good for:

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/pu...200700766.html

Russia Brain Drain Putin Ukraine Crimea - Business Insider

http://www.businessweek.com/articles...s-pension-fund

He's good for destroying Russian culture, provoking ethnic Russians to leave and for inviting migrants in. That's okay for many, it seems.

Putin cares about Russians!!! LMAO!

7500 Mosques Have Been Erected In Russia Since Putin Became President | The Interpreter

Well I bought some Russian shares for my pension fund on Monday.
No doubt they will be back to previous levels within 1-2 years maximum, so for me, this is a good deal.
My only worry about this is that Russian companies de-list from the London Stock Exchange.
There wasn't a lot to choose from so I bought Sistema, Gazprom and Magnit.

However I am very sorry that this is affecting Russia. What's happened is deeply unfair and corrupt. Basically Saudi acting on US orders to hurt Russia and Iran by bizarre manipulation of the oil prize.

In the meantime, hysteria in Sweden about Russia is 10 times higher than ever in my lifetime.
It's beyond a joke. It's total insanity. It's a tragi-comedy.
A lot of people are actually falling for it, particularly young people.

Anyone who just accepts media stories will believe that Russia is actually planning to invade Sweden shortly.
They make up various accusations about planes, submarines illegally on Swedish territory.

They are actually planning to re-call guys who did their military service 10 years ago on a refresher drill "due to the hostile threat from abroad".

Those who are still able to think critically and aren't paralysed by irrational fear of Russia realise that there is manipulation going on. We are pushed into the arms of NATO probably and already half way in. It makes me sick.

Tragic to see that my country has totally lost its independence and is now a puppet operated from Washington and Brussels.

As for the unmentionanable country starting with a U.....
A tragedy beyond belief to see what it looks like now.

I just want to tell Russians: There are plenty of thinking people in Europe (and the USA, I think) who realise that you are being the victim of a very nasty conspiracy at the moment. I don't think Russia deserves this at all. Russia is being punished for not being the loser country it was in the 1990s anymore. I am not worried in the least about the alleged "aggressiveness" of Russia and I think Russia is behaving with integrity, more or less.

Originally Posted by Hanna

Basically Saudi acting on US orders to hurt Russia and Iran by bizarre manipulation of the oil prize.

It is a possibility but to me it seems unlikely.

Originally Posted by Hanna

Anyone who just accepts media stories will believe that Russia is actually planning to invade Sweden shortly.
They make up various accusations about planes, submarines illegally on Swedish territory.
They are actually planning to re-call guys who did their military service 10 years ago on a refresher drill "due to the hostile threat from abroad".

Originally Posted by Hanna

Well I bought some Russian shares for my pension fund on Monday.
No doubt they will be back to previous levels within 1-2 years maximum, so for me, this is a good deal.
My only worry about this is that Russian companies de-list from the London Stock Exchange.
There wasn't a lot to choose from so I bought Sistema, Gazprom and Magnit.

..................

Forget about them.

Originally Posted by Serge_spb

..................

Forget about them.

I understand she had already converted all her savings to Russian rubles

Originally Posted by Eric C.

I understand she had already converted all her savings to Russian rubles

LOL!

Originally Posted by Serge_spb

..................

Forget about them.

Are you crazy! This is the best investment I've made in my life other than some China shares.
Система gained 153% in 5 days and it's trading at less than 25% of the value from last year.
I will make over 1000% profit on this, when the Russian economy goes back to the level of last year. And that will absolutely happen before my retirement for goodness sake. (It's a self invested pension plan) I can't lose.

Who cares about Sweden?

Swedes.

Originally Posted by xXHoax

Swedes.

Where?!?

Originally Posted by 14Russian

Where?!?

There used to be a guy from Sweden on this forum, Fester, he was okay. I mean, I've always had a lot of respect for the Swedes as a nation, and he wasn't an exception. But there's one more person from that country on this forum, that continuously tries to change my mind about that nation with her every post on any political thread. But she's not doing a good job. =))