Thread: Economic Sanctions against Russia and Russia’s Retaliatory Trade Measures

14Russian, why suddenly so much care for Russians?

He doesn't care a hoot for Russians. The number 14 in his nickname is a code slogan of white nationalists which means the 14 words of either "We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children" or "Because the beauty of the White Aryan woman must not perish from the earth".
I don't think it's productive to join to discussion with nazis. It's better to ignore them.

Originally Posted by SergeMak

He doesn't care a hoot for Russians. The number 14 in his nickname is a code slogan of white nationalists which means the 14 words of either "We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children" or "Because the beauty of the White Aryan woman must not perish from the earth".
I don't think it's productive to join to discussion with nazis. It's better to ignore them.

Зачем это здесь? Абсолютный оф-топик и скорее всего неправда. Я читаю его ник как I for Russian.

Originally Posted by Antonio1986

Cyprus is not a hostile country.
With its 700,000 population is supporting Russia in both European Commission and Council.
We with Germany and other countries have voted many times against strict economical measures against Russia supported by Latvia, Estonia, Poland etc.
I suppose there are also other countries within Europe that support Russian for many reasons (economical, political, cultural etc).

That's a problem
Although sanctions are supported by the EU, so Russia retaliated against the EU.
Those countries that were against the sanctions before need to put pressure on Brussels to lift the sanctions. Somebody gotta do the job.

Originally Posted by SergeMak

He doesn't care a hoot for Russians. The number 14 in his nickname is a code slogan of white nationalists which means the 14 words of either "We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children" or "Because the beauty of the White Aryan woman must not perish from the earth".
I don't think it's productive to join to discussion with nazis. It's better to ignore them.

Wow! I would never come to that in my life, and I had to look it up on the web until I found something like that on Wikipedia. That's a real funny interpretation of just a random number in someone's nickname! Seriously though, the tendency of calling opponents "nazis" has been getting sadly persistent among Russians recently.

Originally Posted by hddscan

That's a problem
Although sanctions are supported by the EU, so Russia retaliated against the EU.
Those countries that were against the sanctions before need to put pressure on Brussels to lift the sanctions. Somebody gotta do the job.

The real problem is, Russia didn't retaliate against the EU, neither against the U.S. What they did is retaliation against their own fellow citizens. I don't think losing the Russian market for the EU & U.S. is even 1% of what losing the ability to buy quality stuff from the first world is for ordinary Russians. Once again, the Russian authorities demonstrate that they treat people just like another resource, like oil, gas, etc. Maybe that will be the last straw for the people to finally wake up though?...

Originally Posted by Eric C.

The real problem is, Russia didn't retaliate against the EU, neither against the U.S. What they did is retaliation against their own fellow citizens.

As you may notice Russians disagree with you

Originally Posted by hddscan

As you may notice Russians disagree with you

I'm hoping the opinion on that is more diverse than what we've seen so far. =))

Originally Posted by Eric C.

The real problem is, Russia didn't retaliate against the EU, neither against the U.S. What they did is retaliation against their own fellow citizens. I don't think losing the Russian market for the EU & U.S. is even 1% of what losing the ability to buy quality stuff from the first world is for ordinary Russians. Once again, the Russian authorities demonstrate that they treat people just like another resource, like oil, gas, etc. Maybe that will be the last straw for the people to finally wake up though?...

Yes, shooting down the second Malaysian plane during a half-year time span with a 100 virologists on board at the moment of a sudden out-break of ebola virus in Guinea, on the very day when Israel began the attack at South Lebanon demonstrates that the US treat people's lives just like another resource, like oil, gas, etc, regardless of whether these are the lives of Europeans or Africans...
But it's too naive to believe that the Europeans can finally wake up and to begin to notice what is happening around them - they got obesity of brain and soul.

Originally Posted by Eric C.

I'm hoping the opinion on that is more diverse than what we've seen so far. =))

Does that mean that you want Russians suffer?
That is rather strange hope, I think.

Originally Posted by SergeMak

Yes, shooting down the second Malaysian plane during a half-year time span with a 100 virologist on board at the moment of a sudden out-break of ebola virus in Guinea, on the very day when Israel began the attack at South Lebanon demonstrates that the US treat people's lives just like another resource, like oil, gas, etc, regardless of whether these are the lives of Europeans or Africans...
But it's too naive to believe that the Europeans can finally wake up and to begin to notice what is happening around them - they got obesity of brain and soul.

This reminds me of an old Soviet dialog:

- Я говорю, у вашей страны множество проблем, от полного внутреннего тоталитаризма, до абсолютной закрытости рынка и милитаризованности экономики.
- И что, а в Америке негров линчуют!

I'd understand if those were excuses made by public figures, to hide up the faults of their policies by switching everyone's attention to "the evil U.S."; but how's that relevant to ordinary people???

Originally Posted by SergeMak

Yes, shooting down the second Malaysian plane during a half-year time span with a 100 virologists on board at the moment of a sudden out-break of ebola virus in Guinea, on the very day when Israel began the attack at South Lebanon demonstrates that the US treat people's lives just like another resource, like oil, gas, etc, regardless of whether these are the lives of Europeans or Africans...
But it's too naive to believe that the Europeans can finally wake up and to begin to notice what is happening around them - they got obesity of brain and soul.

And on the plane, since when do the U.S. help the separatists in eastern Ukraine?

Originally Posted by hddscan

Does that mean that you want Russians suffer?
That is rather strange hope, I think.

That means, I hope there are people in Russia who don't like their rights violated, and are ready to fight for them. Consumer rights, for instance.

Никому не кажется, что тема уходит на оффтопиковую взрывоопасную территорию с переходом на личности? Я боюсь, что надежда на уважительные отношения и взаимопонимание пока не оправдывается.
Закрываю на несколько дней.

Тема открывается с требованием взаимоуважительного отношения участников и отсутствия присутствия любой пропаганды.

I think what's most important is the facts.
1. Nobody is being shelled in Crimea since they annexed to Russia. That's a very positive thing.
2. Russia has been sending humanitarian aid convoys to eastern Ukraine. I haven't seen any other country doing that.
3. The sanctions are counterproductive against a country (Russia) that has created a lasting ceasefire in Ukraine. It's not perfect but it is working.
4. If any other country is sending anything but military aid then please let me know. Because I haven't heard about any country, except Russia, helping those people.

Imo, the sanctions are not only counterproductive, the are NOT deserved.

Originally Posted by UhOhXplode

I think what's most important is the facts.
1. Nobody is being shelled in Crimea since they annexed to Russia. That's a very positive thing.
2. Russia has been sending humanitarian aid convoys to eastern Ukraine. I haven't seen any other country doing that.
3. The sanctions are counterproductive against a country (Russia) that has created a lasting ceasefire in Ukraine. It's not perfect but it is working.
4. If any other country is sending anything but military aid then please let me know. Because I haven't heard about any country, except Russia, helping those people.

Imo, the sanctions are not only counterproductive, the are NOT deserved.

For some reason, there are still armed forces in eastern Ukraine who still feel at war with the Ukrainian army, and who aren't willing to put down their guns. Ceasefire may work for a while, but is it the recipe to stop those forces forever? What can be done about those forces, anyway? Reason them? The last few months showed they cannot be reasoned with any logic or common sense at all. So, is there any other way but the military one to get rid of them? If you think it is, please share one.

Originally Posted by UhOhXplode

I think what's most important is the facts.
3. The sanctions are counterproductive against a country (Russia) that has created a lasting ceasefire in Ukraine. It's not perfect but it is working.

I don't think it is working, moreover I don't think it was intended to work. The "ceasefire" targets two things:
1. Elections to Ukrainian Rada. Ukraine needs to stop military actions, at least on paper, to make the elections "lawful"
2. Western press could stop printing disturbing articles about situation in Ukraine, leaving this situation to be solved "behind the curtains" of publicity.

In reality fights continue every day, people die every day and hatred grows between two sides, every day.

Originally Posted by UhOhXplode

4. If any other country is sending anything but military aid then please let me know. Because I haven't heard about any country, except Russia, helping those people.

Germany Sends Humanitarian Convoy to Ukraine | World | RIA Novosti
Власти Украины отправили гуманитарную помощь на Донбасс - Korrespondent.net

Originally Posted by UhOhXplode

Imo, the sanctions are not only counterproductive, the are NOT deserved.

That is only if you think that sanctions were supposed to motivate Russia to do something different about Ukrainian situation.
IMO people who approved sanction couldn't care less about Ukraine. When they say that their target is "economical isolation" of Russia - I believe them. They don't like Russia's economy to grow and that's the real reason for the sanctions and Ukraine is just a convenient cover for this.

Originally Posted by Eric C.

For some reason, there are still armed forces in eastern Ukraine who still feel at war with the Ukrainian army, and who aren't willing to put down their guns. Ceasefire may work for a while, but is it the recipe to stop those forces forever? What can be done about those forces, anyway? Reason them? The last few months showed they cannot be reasoned with any logic or common sense at all. So, is there any other way but the military one to get rid of them? If you think it is, please share one.

How about, there are still Ukrainian troops who still feel at war with the pro-Russian Ukrainians. I totally do believe its happening on both sides. And I have to disagree. The ceasefire and the pull backs prove that the pro-Russian Ukrainians can be reasoned with.
And yes I think there is a better solution than the extermination of the political opposition. Peace and negotiations.

Originally Posted by hddscan

I don't think it is working, moreover I don't think it was intended to work. The "ceasefire" targets two things:
1. Elections to Ukrainian Rada. Ukraine needs to stop military actions, at least on paper, to make the elections "lawful"
2. Western press could stop printing disturbing articles about situation in Ukraine, leaving this situation to be solved "behind the curtains" of publicity.

In reality fights continue every day, people die every day and hatred grows between two sides, every day.

Germany Sends Humanitarian Convoy to Ukraine | World | RIA Novosti
Власти Украины отправили гуманитарную помощь на Донбасс - Korrespondent.net

Imo, the elections in Ukraine will never be lawful. The new government was installed after an illegal and violent coup of the Ukrainian government. That wasn't lawful either.
And yeah, burning people alive and executing Ukrainians brought in for questioning then burying them in mass graves is extremely disturbing. So is shelling hospitals, orphanages, residential areas, and schools. But I really don't believe that the people reading the media are ever involved in the peace process. That's only for the politicians.

But no, I wasn't aware of the reasons for the ceasefire. But at least it can reduce the number of deaths and injuries while they work on solutions. More military aid can't.
And yeah there will be a lot of hating both now and after the crisis is solved. I'm not even there but it's impossible to forget those people being burned alive and the Ukrainians laughing. It's also impossible to forget that old woman crying in her shelled house. Or all the children that died. So yeah, it will probaly be even more impossible for them to forget that nightmare.

Good on Germany! I knew they had discussed sending humanitarian aid but this is the first time I've seen any proof that they were sincere about that. But I did believe they would eventually help out.
I also wasn't aware that the Ukrainian authorities had sent aid last August. But if they did then there must have been a political motivation for helping the people they shelled. Also this:

"Это помощь нашим соотечественникам, оказавшимся в зоне АТО в Донецкой и Луганской областях", - сообщил Бурбак

So I seriously doubt that the Ukrainian aid from Kiev was ever given to anyone but the Kiev supporters. Anyone else that tried to get some of that aid was probaly arrested.

Originally Posted by hddscan

That is only if you think that sanctions were supposed to motivate Russia to do something different about Ukrainian situation.
IMO people who approved sanction couldn't care less about Ukraine. When they say that their target is "economical isolation" of Russia - I believe them. They don't like Russia's economy to grow and that's the real reason for the sanctions and Ukraine is just a convenient cover for this.

I was suspecting that. They know the sanctions won't change Russian policies. And the color revolution was staged right after the very successful Sochi olympics. When I saw all those EU and US politicians on the Maidan, I knew it was an NGO sponsored coup.
After everything I've read in both the western and eastern media, my only conclusion is that the Ukrainian crisis is a western war against Russia.
I believe the west (especially the US) is trying to weaken Moscow and spread unrest so they can take Russia out. Further proof is the fact that they are operating Radio Free Europe again and this time they are especially targeting Crimea.

As Russia seized Crimea from Ukraine in March, the station launched a special website for the peninsula in three languages — Russian, Ukrainian and Tatar.

Radio Free Europe back on the frontline with Russian and Ukrainian broadcasts

The west (especially America) wants more bloodshed and this time they want it in Russia.

Originally Posted by UhOhXplode

Imo, the elections in Ukraine will never be lawful. The new government was installed after an illegal and violent coup of the Ukrainian government. That wasn't lawful either.

But the alternative is complete chaos and unrest. In general people do not want to do meaningless things, even politicians around the world have to agree to some form of government in Ukraine. For example Russia has agreed to call Poroshenko president of Ukraine, even that before Russia was saying that the elections were unlawful

Originally Posted by UhOhXplode

But I really don't believe that the people reading the media are ever involved in the peace process. That's only for the politicians.

People, reading the media, are involved in elections and that's where politicians have to be careful

Originally Posted by UhOhXplode

So I seriously doubt that the Ukrainian aid from Kiev was ever given to anyone but the Kiev supporters.

maybe, I know that Mr. Ahmetov is helping Donbass people with humanitarian aid.