Thread: Economic Sanctions against Russia and Russia’s Retaliatory Trade Measures

Zhirinovsky is one of the oldest Russian politicians. His party exists since 1989. He used to be a candidate for all the presidential elections in Russia beginning 1991. Nobody even heard about Putin at that time. He survived the break-down of the Soviet Union, the Presidency of Yeltsin, he's probably going to survive everyone and everything.
But I am not going to discuss anything with you anymore, because it would mean to level with you and I cannot let myself come down so low. Западло.

Originally Posted by SergeMak

Zhirinovsky is one of the oldest Russian politicians. His party exists since 1989. He used to be a candidate for all the presidential elections in Russia beginning 1991. Nobody even heard about Putin at that time. He survived the break-down of the Soviet Union, the Presidency of Yeltsin, he's probably going to survive everyone and everything.
But I am not going to discuss anything with you anymore, because it would mean to level with you and I cannot let myself come down so low. Западло.

So what if he is one of the oldest ones? He's even considered a clown in Russia but it's well known, he's a Putin puppet. He's used by the Kremlin. He has free reign to say whatever, in the Duma. In fact, more than one Russian I talk to has conceded this. I don't know what you are trying to say here - except info that is irrelevant to the argument.

'But I am not going to discuss anything with you anymore, because it would mean to level with you and I cannot let myself come down so low. Западло.'
Um, okay?!? Делай что хочешь.

Apparently, Russia needs more sanctions?

Terrorists trained in Russia are caught after trying to kill Ukrainians during a peace march.

https://www.kyivpost.com/content/kyi...es-381532.html

Putin must have to recruit people with major mental problems but I guess that circumstance is quite prevalent after reading posts here and other places where these sentiments exist. The amount of support and Putin/Kremlin sympathism is too great to simply declare it's a coincidence.

Originally Posted by 14Russian

Terrorists trained in Russia are caught after trying to kill Ukrainians during a peace march.

Yeah, about that

1. Terrorist attack happened at ~13:30 02.22.2015
2. Turchinov said that terrorists were caught (note was published at 15:30, same day) - http://www.pravda.com.ua/rus/news/2015/02/22/7059383/

Секретарь СНБО сообщил, что СБУ совместно с МВД начали антитеррористическую операцию "в результате которой уже задержаны 4 участника подрыва и изъято оружие, в том числе гранатомет".

3. On a video (published at 20:30, same day) where terrorists were "caught" it's night, so it cannot be between 13:30 and 15:30. It's just begs a question why to make a fake again?
And here is that video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RT8a0o9JscE. See 2:15 on a video for в том числе гранатомет

Since this video is obviously fake/staged begs another question, who were the actual terrorists?

Some food for thought
Плод. Должен. Созреть. - Теракт в Харькове 22.02.2015: Неряшливая и бездарная провокация СБУ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ht-3x0V1A-4

The West must have to recruit people with major mental problems to actually believe in that fake but I guess that circumstance is quite prevalent after reading posts here and other places where these sentiments exist.

Originally Posted by 14Russian

...a peace march.

Lol. Poor "peaceful" nazi militants killed by their own masters once again, like it was on Maidan.

Originally Posted by Basil77

Lol. Poor "peaceful" nazi militants killed by their own masters once again, like it was on Maidan.

"Lol"? Ого, как смешно, когда люди гибнут.

Originally Posted by Lampada

"LOL"? Ого, как смешно, когда люди гибнут.

Люди? Мне абсолютно наплевать, сколько нацистов из падальёнов и активистов "Правого сектора" подорвались на бомбе, подложенной СБУ по команде ЦРУ-шников из Лэнгли. А вот когда каждый день на Донбассе у себя в домах гибнут ни в чём не повинные дети, женщины и старики под снарядами доблестных украинских вояк - это действительно трагедия. Только несколько дней назад был случай, когда родители спрятали детей в ванную во время обстрела, чтобы осколками не посекло, а туда попал снаряд. В западных СМИ про это не пишут и такое не показывают. Так что вот по ком, а по этим дохлым уродам с "мирного марша" я плакать точно не собираюсь.

Originally Posted by Basil77

Люди? Мне абсолютно наплевать, сколько нацистов из падальёнов и активистов "Правого сектора" подорвались на бомбе, подложенной СБУ по команде ЦРУ-шников из Лэнгли. А вот когда каждый день на Донбассе у себя в домах гибнут ни в чём не повинные дети, женщины и старики под снарядами доблестных украинских вояк - это действительно трагедия. Только несколько дней назад был случай, когда родители спрятали детей в ванную во время обстрела, чтобы осколками не посекло, а туда попал снаряд. В западных СМИ про это не пишут и такое не показывают. Так что вот по ком, а по этим дохлым уродам с "мирного марша" я плакать точно не собираюсь.

Получаешь предупреждение за троллизм.

I think that last video is way too simplifying.
Let's not forget that:
1. If there would no buyer then there would be no income for a seller (like Russia and China)
2. If there would be no way to pay debt it wouldn't mean that life or economy would stop on that. Russia went through a default for example and it's still alive and kicking.

(Deleted. L.)
Any Russian (national - who knows what group you belong to) who promotes Putin and the status quo that much is pathetic.

Originally Posted by 14Russian

(Deleted. L.)
Any Russian (national - who knows what group you belong to) who promotes Putin and the status quo that much is pathetic.

If Рutin promoted the "status quo", he would have Russia block the Russia-Ukraine border just as he learned about the crazy nutjobs there fighting everyone "in the name of Russians". Looking at what it is now, it can't be called anything but an aggressive war. And we all know who takes whose side in that conflict, so what "status quo" are you talking about?

Originally Posted by Eric C.

If Рutin promoted the "status quo", he would have Russia block the Russia-Ukraine border just as he learned about the crazy nutjobs there fighting everyone "in the name of Russians". Looking at what it is now, it can't be called anything but an aggressive war. And we all know who takes whose side in that conflict, so what "status quo" are you talking about?

The status quo in general or the status quo regarding Ukraine? Regarding Ukraine, the status quo is to interfere, engage but deny doing anything. What did you think I meant?

Separatist fighter admits Russian tanks, troops 'decisive in eastern Ukraine battles' - Telegraph

https://news.vice.com/article/russia...ing-in-ukraine

Putin admits annexation of Crimea put in motion weeks before referendum - World - Israel News | Haaretz

The Kremlin denied having soldiers that were blocking Ukrainian personnel - 'little green men' but later conceded - when it didn't matter any more. The Kremlin/Putin confessed to having a plan to annex Crimea before the 'referendum' - before accusations of closing down Ukr. TV/media and the rest of unethical/immoral interference claims. So, there are some occasions in which the Russian government concede their interference but the status quo is to deny, distract and accuse - until they're willing to admit A or B - and on their own terms.

Putin's economic team plays Houdini.

Last week, the Russian central bank's currency reserves increased for the first time since last July, showing that the economy may have moved past the panic caused by last year's oil price slump. Perhaps Russia's improving indicators will convince Western governments that economic sanctions are having no discernible effect and that President Vladimir Putin's regime and the country it runs aren't facing imminent collapse.

Putin's economic team plays Houdini - Chicago Tribune

What Sanctions? The Russian Economy Is Growing Again

BY BILL POWELL / APRIL 13, 2015 2:33 PM EDT



http://www.newsweek.com/putin-was-right-be-confident-about-russias-economy-321934

Originally Posted by 14Russian

Apparently, Russia needs more sanctions?

Terrorists trained in Russia are caught after trying to kill Ukrainians during a peace march.

https://www.kyivpost.com/content/kyi...es-381532.html

Putin must have to recruit people with major mental problems but I guess that circumstance is quite prevalent after reading posts here and other places where these sentiments exist. The amount of support and Putin/Kremlin sympathism is too great to simply declare it's a coincidence.

Needs more sanctions? Not really. The West has already proven how unreliable they are as business partners. Or is that hostile? I mean they did do everything they could do to try and crush the competition, right? Imo some of those countries should be sued for fraud and they should all be sued for slander.
About the Ukrainian Secret Service fairy tale - I would believe the sky was green with bright purple dots before I would believe anything they said.

@ Lampada:
I'm not surprised that the Russian economy is growing again. Vladimir Putin brought the economy way up after the Yeltsin economic stagnation. And I noticed he was making all the right moves during the crisis. And now with Unionpay and all the plans for rebuilding industries in Russia, the future look really good. I also believe the Russian economy will grow even more and faster than the economists are predicting.
Btw, happy May Day, everybody! I'll be watching the parade.

To the people who critisized my purchase of Russian shares in December.
YOUR LOSS people!

Here is how these random shares performed since I bought them in November or December last year.

Sistema +214%
Amur Minerals +33.3%
Gazprom +34%
Magnit +40%
Raven Russia -5.3%
VTB Bank +30%

Average growth of my Russian shares in five months: 58 %

Compare the with the average development of the FTSE or Dow Jones since then.

With this level of growth I'll have 100% growth in under a year..
Russia, a loser country, doomed to failure? I think not!

Russia has a fraction of the debt level of the USA, or even the UK.
It has substantive verified gold reserves, as opposed to the USA. They don't have the increasingly complex immigration problems Europe has, and they are not ruining their economy with endless wars and making enemies of everyone, like the USA. It may be a bit tough for Russia now, but the long term prospectives are good.

I have kept an eye on events in Ukraine and Donbass, as sad and tragic as they are. After making sure I heard both sides of the story, I don't see that Russia has done anything sufficiently immoral for me to turn my back. Certainly not in comparison with the UK where I live.

Originally Posted by Eric C.

If Рutin promoted the "status quo", he would have Russia block the Russia-Ukraine border just as he learned about the crazy nutjobs there fighting everyone "in the name of Russians". Looking at what it is now, it can't be called anything but an aggressive war. And we all know who takes whose side in that conflict, so what "status quo" are you talking about?

If he had closed the border he would have been criticized for doing that instead!
I.e. "Putin uses Soviet tactics and stops free travel" "Families split by Putin's blockade", "Putin confiscates passports" would be the headlines we'd see then! There is always a double standard when reporting about Russia.


If the West does Action A, it's for freedom, democracy and human rights.
If Russia also does Action A, then in that context it's a sign of "dictatorship", "infringement of human rights" and "aggression".

Nothing that Russia could have done would have been acceptable.

If Russia had tried to identify the people who wanted to go to Donbass and fight - by spying on citizens, then it would have been criticized for that instead. It would have also had to physically prevent people from travelling (i.e. human rights)

It seem some Chechens, some extreme Russian nationalists, and guys who simply like to fight did go to Donbass on their own initiative. But what can the modern Russian state do to prevent that?

It's always been the case in Europe, that volunteers sometimes join in wars in neighbouring countries, for family reasons, historical, religious or ideological reasons. It's nothing new about the fact that some Russians decided to do that.

Russia clearly didn't instigate or want this new cold war.

Whatever action Russia takes, it's always interpreted in the darkest possible light in Western media. This time Russia is being dragged into a cold war against its will and seems largely innocent if you take a step back and view both sides of the argument.

Finally, the proof is in the pudding: Every time Western countries interfere in foreign countries, it ends up worse than it was before, with suffering, refugees and hardship. Maidan would not have resulted in the overthrow of the government, unless Western powers had been pulling the strings. That's what started the problem.

Anyone who says they believe in democracy would have respected that Yanukovich was democratically elected and that there'd be an election the following year, i.e. now.

Russia doesn't, for instance, spur on the recent riots in American cities, or make demands that the US president needs to step down because some people are unhappy with his government.

Closing the UA/RU border as Eric proposes is simply not realistic. It's a very long border between to very large countries. It would have been cruel to people on both sides who have family across the border - there was no border there for 70 years, then relatively free movement for 20 years. Eric, apparently wants to build walls and close borders!

Originally Posted by Hanna

If he had closed the border he would have been criticized for doing that instead!
I.e. "Putin uses Soviet tactics and stops free travel" "Families split by Putin's blockade", "Putin confiscates passports" would be the headlines we'd see then! There is always a double standard when reporting about Russia.


If the West does Action A, it's for freedom, democracy and human rights.
If Russia also does Action A, then in that context it's a sign of "dictatorship", "infringement of human rights" and "aggression".

Nothing that Russia could have done would have been acceptable.

If Russia had tried to identify the people who wanted to go to Donbass and fight - by spying on citizens, then it would have been criticized for that instead. It would have also had to physically prevent people from travelling (i.e. human rights)

It seem some Chechens, some extreme Russian nationalists, and guys who simply like to fight did go to Donbass on their own initiative. But what can the modern Russian state do to prevent that?

It's always been the case in Europe, that volunteers sometimes join in wars in neighbouring countries, for family reasons, historical, religious or ideological reasons. It's nothing new about the fact that some Russians decided to do that.

Russia clearly didn't instigate or want this new cold war.

Whatever action Russia takes, it's always interpreted in the darkest possible light in Western media. This time Russia is being dragged into a cold war against its will and seems largely innocent if you take a step back and view both sides of the argument.

Finally, the proof is in the pudding: Every time Western countries interfere in foreign countries, it ends up worse than it was before, with suffering, refugees and hardship. Maidan would not have resulted in the overthrow of the government, unless Western powers had been pulling the strings. That's what started the problem.

Anyone who says they believe in democracy would have respected that Yanukovich was democratically elected and that there'd be an election the following year, i.e. now.

Russia doesn't, for instance, spur on the recent riots in American cities, or make demands that the US president needs to step down because some people are unhappy with his government.

Closing the UA/RU border as Eric proposes is simply not realistic. It's a very long border between to very large countries. It would have been cruel to people on both sides who have family across the border - there was no border there for 70 years, then relatively free movement for 20 years. Eric, apparently wants to build walls and close borders!

So, am I getting it right, you say no Russian military or heavy weapons have been crossing the border ever since, and all who have were ordinary crazy Russian individuals, whom the Russian government would actually like to stop, but just doesn't know how ?

Originally Posted by Eric C.

So, am I getting it right, you say no Russian military or heavy weapons have been crossing the border ever since, and all who have were ordinary crazy Russian individuals, whom the Russian government would actually like to stop, but just doesn't know how ?

У каждого на этот счёт может быть своё мнение, основанное на различных источниках информации, так что не нужно задавать провокационные вопросы.