Thread: Economic Sanctions against Russia and Russia’s Retaliatory Trade Measures

Originally Posted by bytemare

The title of this thread is over dramatic. It's not a war, it's sanctions. Even the "western world" is questionable but it could pass.

You are wrong. It's a war. Moreover it's a war for survival. It's not a war against Putin or his government, it's the war against Russian people. The aims of the war range from provoking a forced change of the power in Russia as it was earlier made in Ukraine to disintegrating Russia into several unfriendly states leading permanent brother-killing wars against each other. The thousands of innocent victims in the South-East of Ukraine as well as the hundreds of the passengers of the Malaysian Boeing have already become the victims of this war.
On the other hand, the Ukrainian bomb is meant to undermine not only Russia, but Europe as well. So, it's very naive to hope to stay untouched by the war. The bell tolls for everyone, as I used to say earlier.
As we cannot dodge from participating in this war, we have to take the sides. For Russians there is little choice since we are cornered. We will strike back.
As for Europeans there is a choice - either to follow the US politics and to lose their political and economical sovereignty or to take their own side and ally with Russia.

Originally Posted by SergeMak

...I have a question to Lampada. The decision of the USA and EU to introduce the sanctions against Russia is obviously connected with the Ukraine situation. Since all of the forum threads referring the political situation in Ukraine are banned on this site, I wonder why this one isn't?

Упс! Поймали с поличным. Ожидала такой вопрос. Отвечаю: дискуссии о трагедии в Украине не должны были быть забанены на МР, но, как известно, перешли в откровенное перебрасывание "какашками" и всяких оскорблений в адрес людей и стран, что не могло здесь продолжаться. Теперь же эта тема, открытая Антонио, которого интересует всякая экономика, вроде бы обещает в потенциале строиться на чинной, добропорядочной и взаимоуважительной основе. Я думаю, что это вполне возможно, конечно, при желании участников.

Originally Posted by SergeMak

You are wrong. It's a war. Moreover it's a war for survival. It's not a war against Putin or his government, it's the war against Russian people. The aims of the war range from provoking a forced change of the power in Russia as it was earlier made in Ukraine to disintegrating Russia into several unfriendly states leading permanent brother-killing wars against each other. The thousands of innocent victims in the South-East of Ukraine as well as the hundreds of the passengers of the Malaysian Boeing have already become the victims of this war.
On the other hand, the Ukrainian bomb is meant to undermine not only Russia, but Europe as well. So, it's very naive to hope to stay untouched by the war. The bell tolls for everyone, as I used to say earlier.
As we cannot dodge from participating in this war, we have to take the sides. For Russians there is little choice since we are cornered. We will strike back.
As for Europeans there is a choice - either to follow the US politics and to lose their political and economical sovereignty or to take their own side and ally with Russia.

Видишь ли, для простых американцев и, наверное, западных европейцев твоя точка зрения на современную политику, я думаю, будет полностью неприемлема. Опять же я думаю, что они бы, если б задумались, пришли б к заключению с точностью "до наоборот" от твоего понимания политических событий. Всё-таки СМИ тут и СМИ там диаметрально противоположно всё освещают. Жаль, что Дебби нет, она бы, наверное, с твоей точкой зрения согласилась, а также мой племянник, твой тёзка, но он пока в тюрьме. Через год выйдет, постараюсь его сюда затянуть.

"Перебрасывание какашками" происходит не из-за тем дискуссий, а из-за интеллектуального и этического уровня собеседников. Можно ведь устроить грандиозную перебранку с оскорблениями и мордобоем и по таким невинным и бессмысленным темам, как "что лучше - чай или кофе?", было бы желание.
Это во-первых.
Во-вторых, экономические санкции - на самом деле являются инструментом политического давления, а не чисто экономическим явлением, так же как, скажем, порка является методом воспитательного воздействия на сознание, а не физическим упражнением или разновидностью массажа.
Поэтому, говорить о санкциях в отрыве от причин и прогнозируемых последствий невозможно, а как те, так и другие выходят за пределы экономики. Поэтому любой разговор о санкциях неизбежно приведет к обсуждению ситуации на Украине и новым порциям взаимных оскорблений.

Originally Posted by SergeMak

Поэтому любой разговор о санкциях неизбежно приведет к обсуждению ситуации на Украине и новым порциям взаимных оскорблений.

Я думаю, что интеллектуального и этического уровня собеседников должно хватить, чтобы не привело.
Хотя я думаю лучше наказывать провинившихся, нежели всех подряд, закрывая тему, хотя закрыть тему конечно проще.

Originally Posted by Eric C.

I fully encourage you also to break your iPhone/iPad with a hammer, like one Russian dude already did (and posted the evidence to youtube); it's very unfortunate if your car isn't Lada or Volga, too, coz otherwise you'll have to drown it in a lake.

My cellphone was made in Malaysia and no, I don't use and never used Apple products. I always thought it's overestimated marketing garbage.

Money account or cash savings in dollars/euros? You'd better do anything to not let comrade Putin find it out, you don't want to let down his great trust in you, do you?

All my savings and bank accounts are in roubles. I only buy dollars/euros when go to vacation abroad.

And whatever happens, keep one thing in mind, whatever comrade Putin does, he does for the sake of your happiness and prosperity, and he's going to gain or lose from his every decision just the way YOU're going to gain/lose from them.

I'm pretty anti-Putin actually. I still think he is a corrupt crook. But I agree with him on food embargo. It's a good thing in my opinion.

Originally Posted by Basil77

My cellphone is maid in Malaysia

I'm sure it was a typo but just in case, it's "made" not "maid". Don't beat me too hard

Originally Posted by SergeMak

I have a question to Lampada. The decision of the USA and EU to introduce the sanctions against Russia is obviously connected with the Ukraine situation. Since all of the forum threads referring the political situation in Ukraine are banned on this site, I wonder why this one isn't?

while I can understand Serge's logic with this question, I for one feel that reasonable debate and exchange of opinions should be encouraged rather than banned. These are after all real and current world happenings that affect people's life. If we can't talk even about them, who can?

Originally Posted by hddscan

I'm sure it was a typo but just in case, it's "made" not "maid". Don't beat me too hard

Thanks

Originally Posted by eisenherz

while I can understand Serge's logic with this question, I for one feel that reasonable debate and exchange of opinions should be encouraged rather than banned. These are after all real and current world happenings that affect people's life. If we can't talk even about them, who can?

Do you mean that the happenings in South-East of Ukraine don't affect people's life? Or do you mean that the inhabitants of that region are not people at all?

Originally Posted by SergeMak

Do you mean that the happenings in South-East of Ukraine don't affect people's life? Or do you mean that the inhabitants of that region are not people at all?

Where do you see negative? Didn't he say "affect"?

Originally Posted by Lampada

Упс! Поймали с поличным. Ожидала такой вопрос. Отвечаю: дискуссии о трагедии в Украине не должны были быть забанены на МР, но, как известно, перешли в откровенное перебрасывание "какашками" и всяких оскорблений в адрес людей и стран, что не могло здесь продолжаться. Теперь же эта тема, открытая Антонио, которого интересует всякая экономика, вроде бы обещает в потенциале строиться на чинной, добропорядочной и взаимоуважительной основе. Я думаю, что это вполне возможно, конечно, при желании участников.

As an economist I am interested mainly in the economic aspects.
I didn't link the issue with the Ukraine at all, even if it is connected.

Originally Posted by Antonio1986

As an economist I am interested mainly in the economic aspects.
I didn't link the issue with the Ukraine at all, even if it is connected.

Antonio, be careful! Don't use use the "the" with the word "Ukraine", lest the Ukrainian patriots claim that you are a Putin's spy and provocateur!

Originally Posted by SergeMak

Antonio, be careful! Don't use use the "the" with the word "Ukraine", lest the Ukrainian patriots claim you as a Putin's spy and provocateur!

Serge вам надо успокоиться, вы на грани нервного срыва
Я понимаю что СМИ нагнетают со всех сторони, враги мерещаться за углом и т.п.
Но в западных СМИ Украина по важности занимает строчки даже ниже Сирии, поэтому ваши выпады будут восприниматься с непониманием многими иностранцами.

Originally Posted by Lampada

Where do you see negative? Didn't he say affect?

Of course, see no evil, hear no evil! It's so convenient. "let's come together right now oh yeah in sweet harmony"

Originally Posted by Lampada

Yours is the wrong way to approach discussion. You are passing judgement on something you have not viewed for yourself firsthand. You might have your opinion, but being so categorical never helps mutual understanding.

Yes, it's my opinion and I explained and elaborated in the same post. There should be mutual undersanding



I only explained why Russians that posted in this topic underestimated the trade sanctions and demonstrated a rational theory about the current status/state of the Russian economy. So, I theorized that they were inaccurate based on the facts. It does not matter why or who are included in the sanctions. Even if Russia finds other customers, they are at a huge disadvantage. If they are 'buddies' with China concerning trade, they are a massive disadvantage.

14Russian, why suddenly so much care for Russians?
Oh that evil Putin, oh he wants to neglect Russians.
First of all what you are saying almost word to word repeats Western MSM, so you don't deliver anything new here.
Second, if you would talk to Russians (even here) you would notice that many of them approve the ban and think of it as more good than bad. But it seems that you want to believe Western MSM and don't want to believe Russians which you are trying to "protect".
Your position perfectly fits to "sour grapes" story and that's position also taken by many Western politicians right now. It's understandable, many people don't want to admit reality if it shows them in bad shape.
I wonder if Canada will try to do something even more stupid, like Australia talking about banning Uranium trades with Russia. Mr. Abbott was obviously so not ready to admit that Australia would be affected by Russian sanctions that he wants to shoot himself to the other leg.

The truth is the West doesn't know Russia or Russians, but not only it claims that it does, it also thinks that it knows better what Russians want and need. Ignorance and snobbism, that are unfortunate qualities of current Western politicians.

Originally Posted by SergeMak

Of course, see no evil, hear no evil! It's so convenient. "let's come together right now oh yeah in sweet harmony" ...

Не знаю, что сказать... Пожалуй, здесь лучше мне остаться в непонятках.

Originally Posted by SergeMak

Do you mean that the happenings in South-East of Ukraine don't affect people's life? Or do you mean that the inhabitants of that region are not people at all?

with all respect I do not understand how you read either of the two into my post;
i merely expressed my thinking that I prefer debate and exchange of opinions as opposed to discussions being banned.

Originally Posted by Basil77

I fully support Putin's food embargo from hostile countries

Cyprus is not a hostile country.
With its 700,000 population is supporting Russia in both European Commission and Council.
We with Germany and other countries have voted many times against strict economical measures against Russia supported by Latvia, Estonia, Poland etc.
I suppose there are also other countries within Europe that support Russian for many reasons (economical, political, cultural etc).