Thread: Getting rid of the pseudo-Russian slang here

Originally Posted by MISSFOXYSWEETCHERRY

Also this is not a new site/forum, it has been created since 2002, if it was such a big problem, we've already had a section/category for it. I think you overrate this issue.

I think you overrate my involvement with this issue. I was passing by and made a statement accompanied with a suggestion. Yes, I created a poll, but that is for the community and not for my personal self-assertion. I have absolutely no intention to 'convert' people to anything, or even to make myself understood completely in cases such as this. BTW if you are a foreigner with as much respect for my language as for a pair of old boots, I have no objection, but if you are a native Russian speaker taking the role of an expert, you could have provided a more sophisticated opinion.

Originally Posted by MISSFOXYSWEETCHERRY

The most important thing is that users learn and get the answer of their question. If we keep overrate such kind of issues, it will bring up a lot more categories.

For a site that boasts to be around since 2002 and dealing with such a complex topic as a foreign language you have darn few categories, my friend. Fewer than in a junior school textbook.

Originally Posted by NextOfKeen

BTW if you are a foreigner with as much respect for my language as for a pair of old boots, I have no objection, but if you are a native Russian speaker taking the role of an expert, you could have provided a more sophisticated opinion.

Oh really?? I'm half Russian and Russian isn't my native language and i don't live in Russia and guess what? I don't really care you consider me foreigner or what, because i love Russia and Russian language, and am not here to see how you're gonna criticize me and my opinions(whether you call it sophisticated opinion or worse)
I think i forgot your contribution for this site!! Otherwise i can't find any way to see "YOU" respect Russian language, and me and your so called "Foreigners" respect Russian language as a pair of old boots!!
Where have you been since 2009? Cause you just started your activity by complaining!! As it is written under your name, you're a "Новичок". You as a native Russian speaker could/can "contribute".
FYI you better know foreigners are here for "learning" Russian, but you??! Not only you don't contribute but generalize foreigners like this (in your only one and very first thread): "if you are a foreigner with as much respect for my language as for a pair of old boots" . And oh if you're going to deny it i better say your whole sentence means this: Native Russian speakers respect Russian language, Foreigners respect it as they respect pair of old boots.

Originally Posted by NextOfKeen

For a site that boasts to be around since 2002 and dealing with such a complex topic as a foreign language you have darn few categories, my friend. Fewer than in a junior school textbook.

Oh yeah? Maybe you can make your own forum? Bring it up! No one sent you an invitation to register here if it's so bad.

Originally Posted by MISSFOXYSWEETCHERRY

I don't really care you consider me foreigner or what, because i love Russia and Russian language

Good to you if you love Russia and Russian language. I hope you could love me as well, on a spiritual level, but I am happy with what I got. As for accusing me of complaining and being a 'noob' (or 'novice' if you prefer) I lost my login and password and had to re-register, because I had not been to this forum for quite some time. I used to answer some people's question, but back then there were not so many questions about substandard/criminal language, and what I saw today in the topic list gave me a stir. I am not the type of person who will just stick his tongue in his (three letter word) to make someone feel comfortable. This is not the way things are done. You will never get anywhere if you are shy to speak your mind. I did what I had to, I created this topic to drive attention to this situation, but the content of this thread belongs to the community, not me, you or moderator. Also, I am not in a position to enforce my opinion, but I am in a position to defend it.

When I read "pseudo-Russian" I thought this was about learners making fools of themselves using slang words they don't master...

Slang is always an addition to any language. It is not poorer. It's not as if speakers of slang are unable to understand the standard language, even if they don't comfortably use it. But actually they do use it if the need arises.

I think if a native speaker explains or uses slang terms, then he or she should simply clarify that they might be fit only for certain purposes. I am in practically daily correspondence with several native speakers of Russian, and most of them, if slang or colloquial terms arise, say "don't say that in front of your boss" or "you wouldn't say that in the presence of minors or women". And clearly the opinions about individual words differ. For example, one lady correspondent happily used "покеда" to say bye bye, while another said "that's a bad slang word from a criminal context, don't use it". Both, by the way, being language teachers.

I have picked up colloquial terms from Russian and even Ukrainian, and from (classical) literature as a learner you may easily pick up outdated terms, too. As a learner you may be unable to assess the value of an expression (little use in using дякую instead of спасибо if the correspondent isn't Ukrainian), but it is still necessary to acknowledge the fact that different levels of speech exist in any language and to come to terms with them.

Subcultures will always have their specific terms and expressions, and learners won't always come into contact only with mainstream culture. Heck, maybe they even want to come into contact with specific subcultures! And it even extends to pronunciation. I mean, which textbook prepares you for що instead of что? There really is no use in concentrating only on standard literary language. It is the common denominator on which to base one's studies, but sooner or later one has to progress to non-standard variants. It is up to native speakers helping us learners to mark specific variants as such, and that should be all. Separate sections do not help because the learner doesn't know what goes where in the first place.

Originally Posted by bitpicker

I mean, which textbook prepares you for що instead of что? There really is no use in concentrating only on standard literary language. It is the common denominator on which to base one's studies, but sooner or later one has to progress to non-standard variants. It is up to native speakers helping us learners to mark specific variants as such, and that should be all.

"Що" is specifically Ukrainian (literary!!!) variant, Russians would use "чё?" or "шо?" instead (and this would be humorous, informal variant). It is also usefyl to know "ща" (сейчас --> щас --> ща). I cannot imagine a textbook teaching foreign learners different layers of the language. Probably, you should consider it OK to use any generic informal expression in conversation, and avoid all of them in formal writing. I guess, having graduated from a faculty of physics, I have little difficulty writing a formal, scientific-looking text. Yet some people, and I mean native speakers, cannot do it reliably and sound hilarious when they try. Formal language is a sort of a slang itself: there are certain expressions and structures that you are expected to follow. Mess them up - and you sound bad.

Originally Posted by Shady_arc

"Що" is specifically Ukrainian (literary!!!) variant, Russians would use "чё?" or "шо?" instead (and this would be humorous, informal variant).

Yes, but don't expect me to hear any difference between "що" and "шо"... I am hard-pressed to actually discern that difference just about anywhere in real life. Sure, if a Russian expressly wanted to show me the difference and spoke extremely clearly, then yes, its ok, but in real life it's all the same to me...

The trouble with formal writing is that it is needed so very rarely. And yes, there actually are textbooks on slang and whatnot, but apparently only in English. On my native German market there is little in that regard. I have two English books on Russian grammar which deal exclusively with particles like же and with elision respectively.