Thread: "Да, я гей, но..."

[quote=it-ogo]

Originally Posted by "Throbert McGee":2ixuscdv

are incredibly annoying and ridiculous.

раздражающе нелепы и смешны?

(Как сказать )

Картинка - класс. Где взял?
[/quote:2ixuscdv]

Я взял из своих мозгов! Мне было скучно все время писать "как будет по-русски?", и вдруг вдохновение ударило как будто молния -- должно быть какой-то эмотикон/смайлик который означает именно этот вопрос!

Of course, I'd be happy to create a similar icon that expresses "how do you say in English?", if anyone can give me suggestions for an image that means "English" to Russians -- obviously, the UK or US flag might work. Or maybe Mickey Mouse? It has to be simple and recognizable at 16 pixels high, however!

Although not really useful for this forum, here are a few more icons that I've created:

Ghostly skull:


Greek gods such as Zeus used to appear and disappear when a girl least expected it...


A flashing red light, to warn people that a link might be a little bit... Amsterdam, if you know what I mean.


And finally, a tribute to Terry Gilliam's animations from Monty Python:

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

Ah, thanks. Is there a Russian word that expresses a "metaphoric hug"?

metaphoric hug may be 'приветствует', but is it really in this meaning, not, say
* To avail oneself of: "I only regret, in my chilled age, certain occasions and possibilities I didn't embrace"
that can be translated as 'воспользоваться возможностью/случаем/обстоятельствами'

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

Of course, I'd be happy to create a similar icon that expresses "how do you say in English?", if anyone can give me suggestions for an image that means "English" to Russians -- obviously, the UK or US flag might work. Or maybe Mickey Mouse? It has to be simple and recognizable at 16 pixels high, however!

Of course Union Jack should be the most recognizable sign but even the most banal. Maybe the bust of that girl with a torch can be somehow put into 16 pixels? Or maybe her only head with that terrific barbed circlet is enough recognizable?

My attitude towards gays has always been pretty much like the Basil77’s one.
By the way his aggressively humorous posts on this thread

Короче, как в том анекдоте: больше всего ненавижу расистов и негров

.

Он, случаем, не "Голубая устрица" называется? Lol

Офигеть! Чел, который тут расписывал, как он любит х## c##@ть, упрекает меня в бескультурии!

P.S. I've just imagined what could have happened if I met "a nice young American woman with a good college education". lol I can only be certain about one thing in this case - my wife would not have approved that.

made me laugh my brains out. He was hilariously abnormal, in a good way.

There’s one sad thing though. As I said I sympathize with Basil77 and Ramil on most of the issues here but seeing how helpful and intelligent Throbert McGee had been up until that uncalled for openness outbreak of his, and how he still remains being like that in spite of the onslaught of hostility, I just can’t dub him a bad guy. How I wish he hadn’t raised the topic at all, left us unaware of his true identity and most of all hadn’t mentioned that stupid sausage related business.

Originally Posted by alexB

There’s one sad thing though. As I said I sympathize with Basil77 and Ramil on most of the issues here but seeing how helpful and intelligent Throbert McGee had been up until that uncalled for openness outbreak of his, and how he still remains being like that in spite of the onslaught of hostility, I just can’t dub him a bad guy. How I wish he hadn’t raised the topic at all, left us unaware of his true identity and most of all hadn’t mentioned that stupid sausage related business.

Абсолютно согласен. I wish this thread wasn't appeared at all. Мне сугубо фиолетово было до ориентации автора темы, пока он не вылез со своим идиотским постом про колбасу. Могу пояснить свой агрессивный настрой. Во-первых, мне довелось несколько месяцев поработать под началом у шефа с нетрадиционной ориентацией (он это не скрывал), может он сам по себе как человек был таким чмо, не знаю, но в итоге я швырнул заявление об увольнении ему в лицо и высказал всё, что я о нём думаю, хотя деньги были неплохие и работа непыльная и, если бы не он, я бы, наверное, до сих пор работал в той организации. Во-вторых, ко мне тут недавно обратился мой сын-первоклассник с вопросом следущего содержания, который возник у него после промотра какой-то телепередачи в прайм-тайм (после 9 вечера смотреть телевизор ему не разрешается): "Папа, а кто такие геи?". И что мне было ему отвечать? Знаешь, сынок, это такие нехорошие дяди, которые e-boot друг друга и всё такое? Почему у меня, чьё детсво прошло в Советском Союзе (мне 32), не возникало таких вопросов лет до 14?

Gee, this topic is popular.

Originally Posted by alexB

...seeing how ... I just can’t dub him a bad guy.

It's not just Throbert... A lot of great people were gays... Tchaikovksy, Hans Christian Andersen, Somerset Maugham, Marcel Proust, Oscar Wilde, Elton John, and the list goes on. Oh yes, and Dumbledore!!!
And then there is Borya Moiseev. I agree with Olya that such matters should remain private.

Russia is definitely far behind the US in terms of tolerance, which is a shame. I personally reserve my judgment on this matter because I simply don't know much about it... As far as I know, gay relationships were normal and encouraged in Ancient Greece and Rome but then there were no other means of birth control. I'd rather everyone accepted gays as normal people but is there really need for parades?

Originally Posted by Basil77

Во-вторых, ко мне тут недавно обратился мой сын-первоклассник с вопросом следущего содержания, который возник у него после промотра какой-то телепередачи в прайм-тайм (после 9 вечера смотреть телевизор ему не разрешается): "Папа, а кто такие геи?". И что мне было ему отвечать?

Er... "It's men who like men, instead of girls."
It's not just about gays. On the whole, there are too many gratuitous sex images on tv. Maybe that's why I like Hindi films so much -- they are more about feelings, love, and romance, than just sex. They don't even kiss there.
I grew up after the collapse of the Soviet Union but it seems our tv didn't damage me that much. I hope.

ETA: Seeing how the planet is becoming more crowded, it's possible that more gays will be born -- nature thinks up all sorts of mechanisms to restrict population growth. There's also a movement of the so-called "child-free" which is gathering momentum -- people who don't want to have children. Seeing how "Life is a sexually transmitted disease with a lethal outcome", I rather sympathise with them.

Originally Posted by Basil77

Почему у меня, чьё детство прошло в Советском Союзе (мне 32), не возникало таких вопросов лет до 14?

Может, ответ находится в самом вопросе?

Originally Posted by starrysky

Gee, this topic is popular.

Originally Posted by alexB

...seeing how ... I just can’t dub him a bad guy.

It's not just Throbert... A lot of great people were gays... Tchaikovksy, Hans Christian Andersen, Somerset Maugham, Marcel Proust, Oscar Wilde, Elton John, and the list goes on. Oh yes, and Dumbledore!!!
And then there is Borya Moiseev. I agree with Olya that such matters should remain private.

"Private" to what degree? Olya used the proverb "У кого что болит, тот о том и говорит". I would respond to that: "Боль здесь ни при чем." And I would coin a new proverb: "У кого что радует, тот о том и говорит." That is the main reason homosexuals like me want the same social freedom to speak about our lives as heterosexuals are accustomed to: because romantic love, and the romantic yearning найти одного особенного спутника жизни, makes us happy, too.

Russia is definitely far behind the US in terms of tolerance, which is a shame. I personally reserve my judgment on this matter because I simply don't know much about it... As far as I know, gay relationships were normal and encouraged in Ancient Greece and Rome

Personally, I would not look to Greece and Rome as models. After all, the word п*дор comes from the Greek word (παιδεραστία) that idealized homosexual love between adult men and teenaged boys -- as in the myth of Zeus and Ganymede. And of course, the Greeks and Romans were familiar with the concept of free adult men buggering male slaves, prostitutes, and prisoners-of-war as a symbol of humiliation.

But the modern idea of "egalitarian homosexuality" between two free men (or two women) of similar age and social rank is (as far as I know) rarely described in Greek and Roman literature and mythology. The relationship of the warriors-lovers Achilles and Patroclus, as described by Plato, is an exceptional case of "egalitarian" homosexual love in ancient literature. One could also mention Gilgamesh and Enkidu of Babylonic myth, and (more controversially) David and Jonathan in the Bible. A common thread running through all these myths is that all these men were MOSTLY heterosexual, and assuming that they had homosexual relationships with each other, it was an exceptional event in their lives. To put it in modern terms, they were "occasionally bisexual", rather than "gay."

I'd rather everyone accepted gays as normal people but is there really need for parades?

Вообще я считаю гей-парады здесь в Америке "динозаврами из до-Интернетской эпохи". That is, such parades were more necessary in the days before Facebook and blogs made it much, much easier for gays and lesbians to find each other, and in the days when homosexuality was still a crime in some states (the parades were a form of political protest).

Nowadays, homosexual acts between adults are not a crime anywhere in the US (except in contexts where heterosexual acts between adults would also be a crime -- like in a public library!); many gays and lesbians serve in the US military in a "quietly open" way, despite the fact that this remains officially prohibited; and many religious conservatives are supportive of "civil unions", although they oppose "gay marriage." So why is there a need for parades any longer? And I would advise gays in Russia (and elsewhere) to remember the difference between a "civil-rights protest march" and a "parade."

P.S. How would native Russian speakers express the phrases in green?

By the way, I approach "gay rights" questions from a "libertarian" or "classical liberal" point-of-view -- which, in practice, makes me very "conservative"/"right-wing" in comparison with most American gays. From a "classical liberal" perspective, the most important principle of "gay rights" is simply: Государство должно оставить геев в покое.

And if my neighbor thinks that I'm a "pervert," it's my job as an individual citizen, and not the job of the government, to try to change my neighbor's opinion -- because Государство тоже должно оставить гомофобов в покое.

But if, in the end, my neighbor won't change his opinion, then I must respect his right to consider me a pervert. But of course I will at least make an attempt to change his mind, just as self-respecting Jews try to prove the irrationality of antisemitism, and self-respecting blacks try to make racists "see the light". Unfortunately, many American gays have the attitude: "Change the law (from the top), and the culture (of the masses) will follow."
But I think this is a very backwards and "see-see-see-pee" way to look at things.

И отсюда мой лозунг: "Я гомосексуалист, а не гей" (And hence my slogan: "I'm homosexual, but not gay")

Originally Posted by Lampada

Я вообще подозреваю, что гомосексуалисты существуют в природе, чтобы заботиться о сиротах.

Или, может, гомосексуалисты существуют в природе, чтобы помочь своим братьям и сестрам в воспитании своих племянников и племянниц.

Some evolutionary biologists have proposed the so-called Helpful Gay Uncle hypothesis. (Google it!) In a nutshell, this hypothesis argues that if you consider homosexuals in "economic" terms as non-reproducing adults, then the evolutionary principle of "kin selection" predicts that a population in which there are a small percentage of homosexuals might be more successful in the long term than a population that has zero homosexuals. (NB: In this context, "more successful" = "more grandchildren and great-grandchildren") Why? Because homosexuals, as adults without children, can provide surplus labor to provide food and other material resources for their nieces and nephews -- and back in "caveman days," this extra food would have been more important for survival.

Of course, one logical objection to the "Helpful Gay Uncle" hypothesis is that a "Helpful Celibate Uncle" could do the job just as well! In other words, although it perhaps makes evolutionary sense to have a small number of non-reproducing adults in an extended family (clan), is there really any "added value" if these childless adults are homosexual, instead of having a gene that suppresses the libido entirely? And if one looks at social-living mammals such as lions and elephants, one can clearly observe the phenomenon of "celibate aunts" who help their reproducing sisters take care of the babies, but as far as I know, in most cases these childless females do not form "lesbian" pairs with each other.

Other biologists have suggested that homosexuals might have served the useful function of "harem guards" for early humans -- that is, a male homosexual can be left in the company of his brother's wife/girlfriend without any worry that he will try to get her pregnant. Or, in more general terms, homosexuals of either sex do not compete with their heterosexual brothers and sisters in the "mating game." Again, this could be a reason for evolution to tolerate homosexuality, as long as there aren't TOO MANY homosexuals in the population.

And still other scientists have argued that there really is no evolutionary purpose whatsoever for homosexuality, but perhaps there is a very good reason for the existence of bisexuality -- and "pure homosexuality" can be considered simply an extreme expression (or a "side effect") of a hypothetical "bisexuality gene."

In any case, I think it was Buckminster Fuller who observed, "Seeking a cure for homosexuality would be as foolish as opening an expensive Swiss watch and removing one of the smaller gears because it seems to have no useful or important function."

Well, Throbert, you have almost convinced me to change my opinion about gays. I'm sorry for beeing rude. But I'm still think that your first post on that subject was unapropriate and this theme can't be even mentioned in the presence of children, this topic is exclusively an adult's matter.

Originally Posted by Basil77

Well, Throbert, you almost convince me to change my opinion about gays.

Dr. Throbert's prescription for you, "Kenny": Watch more South Park!

(Существование Интернета -- это не единственный фактор, который превратил гей-парады в "динозавров". If they gave out a Nobel Peace Prize for reducing social homophobia, Trey Parker and Matt Stone would be the obvious winners. В польной серьезности, "Big Gay Al" заставил больше американцев передумать свои мнения про гомосексуалистов, чем тысяча парадов успела.)

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

Dr. Throbert's prescription for you, "Kenny": Watch more South Park!

Well, that's the recipe I don't mind to follow at all!

(Существование Интернета -- это не единственный фактор, который превратил гей-парады в "динозавров". If they gave out a Nobel Peace Prize for reducing social homophobia, Trey Parker and Matt Stone would be the obvious winners. Если серьёзно, то "Big Gay Al" заставил больше американцев изменить своё мнение о гомосексуалистах, чем тысяча парадов _.)

Originally Posted by Basil77

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

Dr. Throbert's prescription for you, "Kenny": Watch more South Park!

Well, that's the sort of recipe I don't mind [s:inbj5f80]to follow[/s:inbj5f80] following at all!

(Вместо "that's the sort of recipe I don't mind following", и можно сказать "that's a recipe I don't mind following")

PS. And "to mind" is just one of those verbs where one must use the gerund (i.e., the -ing form of a verb) instead of the infinitive after it. But with many other verbs that express emotional attitude towards something, either "to X" or "X-ing" would be possible: ("That's a book I would love to read" or "That's a book I would love reading" are both correct.)

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

Well, that's [s:9t9hkr2d]the[/s:9t9hkr2d] a recipe I don't mind [s:9t9hkr2d]to follow[/s:9t9hkr2d] following at all!

Thanks! See? I even don't mind to shake hands with you now (virtually of course, (Deleted. L.) Sorry if insulted you once again, but I just couldn't hold myself.

Originally Posted by Basil77

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

Well, that's [s:2orig7rn]the[/s:2orig7rn] a recipe I don't mind [s:2orig7rn]to follow[/s:2orig7rn] following at all!

Thanks! See? I even don't mind to shake hands with you now (virtually of course, (Deleted. L.)

Ummm... what's the use of flinching? Every guy you shake hands with ... (Deleted. L.)

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

Ummm... what's the use of flinching? Every guy you shake hands with has probably... (Делетед. Л.)

The key words here: his own. I don't know about America but in Russia this could never happen.

(Каждый д####т, как он хочет, as the saying goes.)

This very rude proverb is usually used when somebody wants to say: [Every]One performs an action [any action, not that litarally ] in his own way.

Throbert, PLEASE avoid using Russian sex-related words so freely since you are not a native and don't feel their decency and/or appropriateness on a forum; if you want to look like a gentleman, of course.

The public disgust to homosexualism isn't a result of logical deduction. It's emotional in nature. Effiminate men don't look good while masculine women don't either.

I have more candidates to be recognised as equally acceptable as homosexuals:

incest doers,
polyandrious and polygamous people,
sado-mazochists,
necrophiles,
gerontophiles.