Thread: "Да, я гей, но..."

Во вчерашней газете:
http://www.suntimes.com/news/24-7/20683 ... 10.article
Hate crime charges in beating of gay man on CTA train

This is funny:
"...The attorneys for the three men also pointed out the men were involved in charity work.
McAndrew is a graduate of the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign and helps children in need, attorney Daniel Coyne said. Little volunteers at YMCA Children's Center in Evanston, Gevirtz said. And Eder, a college graduate, also does charity work, attorney Mark Ehrlich said."


В сегодняшней:
http://www.suntimes.com/news/24-7/20693 ... 25.article
Hate crime charges upheld for 3 accused of beating gay man

Это случилось недалеко от моего дома. Argyle is my nearest train station.

The concept of a "hate crime" is very ambigous, it gives an opportunity to manipulate the law and to apply double standards.
What if someone beats up a straight male calling him a "f*ggot"? Will it be a hate crime? Go figure..

Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

The concept of a "hate crime" is very ambigous, it gives an opportunity to manipulate the law and to apply double standards.
What if someone beats up a straight male calling him a "f*ggot"? Will it be a hate crime? Go figure..

It can be charged as a "hate crime," depending on how the laws are written.

For example, Romel and Jose Sucuzhanay were two heterosexual brothers who were walking arm-in-arm late one night in Brooklyn, NY -- something rather unusual for heterosexual men to do in U.S. culture, but perfectly acceptable in the brothers' native Ecuador.

Without provocation, three young men attacked the pair with glass bottles and baseball bats while shouting "spic" (an anti-Hispanic word, and one that's generally considered to be extremely offensive*) and "f*ggot". Romel received only moderate injuries, but Jose died in a hospital several days later from brain damage.

What's interesting, if you examine the news stories about the attack, is that nearly all of them give very prominent attention to the three facts that (a) the brothers were hetero, (b) the word "f*ggot" was used, (c) the attackers -- who were finally caught and brought to trial -- were being charged with an anti-gay "hate crime." As though to say -- "See? There's no double standard, because the law doesn't care whether the victim was, in fact, gay or straight!"

The fact that the non-gay brothers really were Hispanic, and that a racist word against Hispanics was also used by the attackers, seems to be almost secondary, since there's not as much political advantage in emphasizing this point.

* By comparison, calling an Irish-American "mick", or a German-American "kraut," was considered extremely offensive in the past -- as bad as saying "n*gger" to an African-American -- but nowadays, "mick" and "kraut" are, at worst, mild insults.

So basically people are charged for using "bad" words while commiting a crime, and punishing the crime itself is just an afterthought.
I wonder how long will it take for agressive jerks to realise that it's safer to beat people in silence? It will be harder to prove their motivation.

Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

So basically people are charged for using "bad" words while commiting a crime, and punishing the crime itself is just an afterthought.
I wonder how long will it take for agressive jerks to realise that it's safer to beat people in silence? It will be harder to prove their motivation.

Well, in this case, at least one of the attackers would've been charged with first-degree murder anyway, no matter what he said or didn't say. On the other hand, the existence of hate-crime laws in New York state makes it possible (in theory) that the two attackers who "merely" hit Jose Sucuzhanay with a bottle and fists will get the same number of years in prison as the attacker who caused the fatal brain injury with a baseball bat.

And I don't find this totally objectionable -- to treat bad words as "aggravating factors" in sentencing violent criminals -- if it helps to keep truly violent and anti-social people in prison longer. (I don't approve of parole for murderers, anyway, but suppose Jose had survived, so that it were not possible to bring a murder charge, and the attackers were imprisoned for assault. There's a logical argument to be made that "hate crime laws" may make it more difficult for them to get parole, which means they'll have to wait longer before they can once again walk the streets as free men -- which is not a bad idea.)

But the key term here is "violent" -- I completely oppose the concept of "hate crimes" when there is no actual physical violence to persons. For example, spray-painting "88" and "K*kes Die!" on a synagogue wall, or "Got AIDS Yet F*gs?"on the wall of a gay bar, or "ККК Hang the N*ggers" on the wall of a black-owned grocery store, or painting swastikas anywhere, should not be punished more severely than spray-painting "F*ck tha Police" or "NY Yankees Rule!!" or
(;, ФХТАГН
on the very same walls. Graffiti is graffiti.

P.S. Do you know, gRomoZeka, if there's been a thread already about "hate crime" legislation? I think this is an interesting political topic that is totally independent of "gay" issues.

KKK = Kinder, Küche, Kirche?

Посмотрела сегодня "A single man". Интересно, покажут ли его в России.

I didn't handle all 107 messages of this topic.
I just wanted to add it is your own business who you want to sleep with, but usually people don't speak about things they think is normal. So if you still paing attention about this - probably you still can't feel comfortable about this and waiting for a approval and support... which, as you can see, you won't get here...

But I am not on the contrary side and not on yours...

Originally Posted by Incredible_Russian

So if you still paing attention about this - probably you still can't feel comfortable about this and waiting for a approval and support...

Wow! A psychologist?

Originally Posted by Crocodile

Originally Posted by Incredible_Russian

So if you still paing attention about this - probably you still can't feel comfortable about this and waiting for a approval and support...

Wow! A psychologist?

Yeah, right.

Originally Posted by Incredible_Russian

I didn't handle all 107 messages of this topic. ...

It doesn't mean I didn't read it at all

Originally Posted by Incredible_Russian

but usually people don't speak about things they think is normal.

yet of all the topics here you choose this one to speak about...are you normal?

Yes I am)))
I read the 1-st page and there was only one theme to discuss...
But now, on the next pages I can see you talking about everything, so I took my words back

Peace brothers