Thread: Why I love (and hate) dating Russian men (article)

Originally Posted by Deborski

It sounds naive. And why is it always the victim's fault when things happen?

It is not the victim's fault. It is just some kind of misunderstanding here. Maybe I should be more clear in my statements, sorry.

I'll draw analogy:
Let's suppose, for example, you were relaxing in a park and when you were leaving it, you had forgotten your phone there. You noticed that and came back in a moment, but your phone had already been stolen. It is not your fault. The fact is a person who stole your phone is a thief from the law's point of view, and he or she should carry punishment by law.
Some weeks later the situation repeated: you left your phone or some other thing in a public place and it were stolen. And some time later it repeated again.
The facts are still the same: some people stole your stuff, so they should be punished. But also we can state there is another fact. The fact is you should probably take more care of your stuff and don't scatter it in public places all the time.

The same is about that woman. It is not her fault that people can be violent, ignorant and so on. But her fault is that instead of thinking about her strategy and taking a few steps in desired direction, she is just complaining and writing "analytical" articles.
Well, I agree, there are lots of ignorant people in Russia. But all those findings on patriarchal society where the same people are gentle and violent at the same time (really?! O_O) is just weird.

Originally Posted by Deborski

My view still reflects that and I do not see where feminism turned into the "monster" you referenced above.

Sometimes people from US and some other countries talk about such kind of problems: men are no longer men, women are no longer women, insane feminism is everywhere and so on. In Russia there are those talks too. So my "monster" is a hyperbole based on those talks. Maybe the monster is true on some small part. (At least, some number of insane feministic people do exist.) But mostly it is just because people don't tend being very responsible when choosing their friends and patrners, I think.

Originally Posted by Deborski

Last time I checked, my pudenda didn't come equipped with a mop

Great aphorism!

Originally Posted by Deborski

As for the woman in the story, sure she could have made different choices. She sounds young, maybe in her 20's. I would not want to live with any of the men I loved in my 20's. Maybe she just hasn't moved beyond the black/white thinking yet. I dunno. I can understand some of her frustrations, certainly. It's hard being single, especially for an intelligent woman.

So I think. Probably it is because of her age. We all have to get through that at certain age.

Originally Posted by RedFox

It is not the victim's fault. It is just some kind of misunderstanding here. Maybe I should be more clear in my statements, sorry.

I'll draw analogy:
Let's suppose, for example, you were relaxing in a park and when you were leaving it, you had forgotten your phone there. You noticed that and came back in a moment, but your phone had already been stolen. It is not your fault. The fact is a person who stole your phone is a thief from the law's point of view, and he or she should carry punishment by law.
Some weeks later the situation repeated: you left your phone or some other thing in a public place and it were stolen. And some time later it repeated again.
The facts are still the same: some people stole your stuff, so they should be punished. But also we can state there is another fact. The fact is you should probably take more care of your stuff and don't scatter it in public places all the time.

The same is about that woman. It is not her fault that people can be violent, ignorant and so on. But her fault is that instead of thinking about her strategy and taking a few steps in desired direction, she is just complaining and writing "analytical" articles.
Well, I agree, there are lots of ignorant people in Russia. But all those findings on patriarchal society where the same people are gentle and violent at the same time (really?! O_O) is just weird.

I dunno how bizarre it is. In my experience people are often contradictory. Good people can suddenly turn cruel. Cruel people can suddenly do something kind. People are walking contradictions, and so is the society they created. Sure, we should all be careful not to put ourselves in harms way - but (at least here in America) we have a disease called "blame-the-ictim-itis" where victims are the ones being punished instead of those who committed the crimes. And this blaming especially seems to occur when the victim is perceived as "weaker" - ie, female, poor, sick, old, etc. If poor people are robbed, it's their fault for living in a bad neighborhood. If a woman is raped, it's her fault because (insert any reason here). If sick people die, it's their fault because they should have been wealthy enough to pay for health insurance in the first place. I don't know if you have this same trend in Russia, but in America it is very pervasive. For example, in the town of Steubenville, Ohio, a little girl was brutally raped by a gang of football players from the local high school. The entire town came together to rally - not in support of the girl who was raped - but in support of the boys who raped her. They were more worried about the boys` reputations, and the boys` future, than they were about the girl. Meanwhile, the boys not only raped the girl, they video taped the whole thing and posted it on youtube. But there was no outrage about the girl's reputation or future which the boys (giggling the whole time) destroyed. And unfortunately, such events are not just limited to one town but are happening with alarming frequency.

Sometimes people from US and some other countries talk about such kind of problems: men are no longer men, women are no longer women, insane feminism is everywhere and so on. In Russia there are those talks too. So my "monster" is a hyperbole based on those talks. Maybe the monster is true on some small part. (At least, some number of insane feministic people do exist.) But mostly it is just because people don't tend being very responsible when choosing their friends and patrners, I think.

If you are talking about women who hate men, or want to dominate men, then I do not consider such women as feminists. Feminism is not about dominance or control. It's about equality, and that's all it has ever been about. The patriarchy has nothing to do with feminism. The patriarchy has been in place for thousands of years - the idea that society must be led by and controlled by men, and that it must be hierarchical - that there must be one man in charge, and he gets to order all the others around, and they get to order around the ones beneath them and so on, and women are at the bottom of that very long pecking order. Feminism has more to do with a collective society where everyone has equality. That probably sounds dangerously like communism, but Soviet The point I am trying to make here is that if a woman wants to hold on to that hierarchical system by simply placing women in charge instead of men, then she cannot call herself a feminist because she still favors dominance and a patriarchal system.

So I think. Probably it is because of her age. We all have to get through that at certain age.

Yes... and those of us who have survived it should be proud of our scars