Thread: Sochi Olympics and the Law against Gays in Russia +

Do you believe that stripping away these tiny signs of respect (which are probably the only things that keep the life on the Earth), by applying them to all the others who want to behave the same way but are not ready in any way to provide newly born human beings, will encourage the female humans to give more births?

Speaking as a woman, I do not feel in the slightest that my "signs of respect" have been "stripped away" by gays finally being allowed to experience the same marital hell which heterosexuals "enjoy." So if gays want to get married, and bicker and quarrel and get divorced and have custody battles and legal drama - by all means let them!

My "respect" as a female has been stripped away more by a society which praises all that is male and masculine, and shames all that is female and feminine.

Aggressiveness, toughness, ambition, power - these are masculine traits which society glorifies

Passiveness, gentleness, sensitivity, compassion, cooperation - these are feminine traits which society only pays lip service to, but does not really honor.

I do not believe that granting equality to another minority group in any way hurts my own fight for equality as a woman. And I also do not believe that my value as a human being who happens to be female, should be relegated to being a vessel for a man's sperm and incubating baby humans, either.

I spent long years as a journalist and witnessed so many things in my life that I could never describe all of them even if I wrote a thousand books. But I never had children. Some people look at me and think that is sad and shameful, but I do not feel ashamed for my life. Why should every woman consider it her "duty" to have children? There are already eight billion human beings on this planet. That number is so vast it is almost impossible to calculate. We are already overgrazing our planet and yet people are screaming "let's have MORE babies!" as if we had a whole other planet to unleash our population on.

There is nothing wrong with choosing not to have babies. And I do not believe that my entire value in the world is summed up in a wedding ring or a white dress.

If those are the only tokens of appreciation society can bestow on a woman, then the problem is not gays, the problem is SOCIETY and its backward and male-identified view of women as sex objects, brood-mares and cleaning maids.

Originally Posted by Deborski

I also do not believe that my value as a human being who happens to be female, should be relegated to being a vessel for a man's sperm and incubating baby humans, either.

You got me totally wrong.

I've not stated what a woman should or should not do, must a woman to have babies or not. It is totally her own business only. I addressed the attitude of the society to the Public Display of Affection (PDA) for straights and gays. The wedding ring and holding hand is also a sort of PDA under the discussion.

The different attitude rises from the different expected income to the society. If the society sees a PDA of a heterosexual couple it expects the income in the form of a baby (not every PDA results in this but some amount of it does). Seeing it many time society became reflecting unconsciously that PDA means babies and encourage the PDA (of course if it is a sort of a weird society that needs babies). The more PDA, the more babies. So the PDA encouragement is a sort of benefit which was granted by a society to a heterosexual couple for a new baby to be born. Then if the society sees the PDA of a homosexual couple it reflects about babies but at the same time realizes that there will not be any babies at all. So the society thinks that it was cheated and discourages the homosexual PDA (especially if the homosexual couples demand the same benefits that were granted to the heterosexual couples for creating babies). If a couple disclosures its PDA to the society then the couple gives a message to the society and the society responds to the message back whether it approves the message or not. The society addresses its strategic needs. There is nothing homophobic or antigay in this, this is just about the public display of affection and its influence onto the society.

Originally Posted by Deborski

I do not believe that granting equality to another minority group in any way hurts my own fight for equality as a woman.

It is not about granting equality. It is about granting benefits (PDA encouragement) for some achievements (babies). If somebody did something he got some benefits (or salary). What kind of equality can be if someone did nothing and ask for the same benefits (or salary)?

Originally Posted by CoffeeCup

You got me totally wrong.

I've not stated what a woman should or should not do, must a woman to have babies or not. It is totally her own business only. I addressed the attitude of the society to the Public Display of Affection (PDA) for straights and gays. The wedding ring and holding hand is also a sort of PDA under the discussion.

It is not about granting equality. It is about granting benefits (PDA encouragement) for some achievements (babies). If somebody did something he got some benefits (or salary). What kind of equality can be if someone did nothing and ask for the same benefits (or salary)?

Let's agree to disagree. I will just say that I do not understand any mindset which thinks that "public displays of affection" are something that should be "allowed" or "not allowed."

When I was a lonely 20-something living in Leningrad, I saw many young Soviet couples kissing (and more) on the late-night metro and it didn't make me think "oh how sweet, they will have a baby!" It made me think, "God I am lonely. I wish I had a boyfriend!" Seeing two men kiss does not in any way threaten me as a heterosexual woman. If they want to kiss, I don't care and it doesn't bother me anymore than watching those young couples making out in Russia did. I'd rather people not have sex in public of course, I don't need to watch the entire act, but people kissing doesn't offend me. I've dated guys in both Russia and America, and the American guys were actually the least likely to kiss me in public. One of my American boyfriends also referred to this as "PDA's" and he was embarrassed if I took his hand in public. I've never understood that mindset and I never will. To each, their own. As for me, I'd like to see more people kissing and holding hands in public and I find that far less offensive than people who fight in public, or rage and belittle each other in public, or humiliate someone in public.