Thread: Sochi Olympics and the Law against Gays in Russia +

Transgender teen crowned homecoming queen at O.C. high school - latimes.com

Вот это да. Необходимо мужество даже участвовать для таких как она... ой, знаешь... слово "мужество" как-то... неловко вышло.. но во всяком случае, я её поздравляю!

A little detail I just read in the Washington Blade (easily one of the "top five" LGBT newspapers in America) -- a five-person Russian delegation visiting the US to discuss planning for the Sochi Olympics will include an open lesbian named Эльвина Ювакаева, who is a co-president of the Федерации ЛГБТ-Спорта России (the other president is figure skater Константин Яблоцкий).

Apparently the decision to include her in the delegation was recently made by the US Embassy in Moscow -- undoubtedly as a political response to the propaganda law. However, Yuvakaeva was careful to avoid criticism of the Russian government -- instead stressing that her group was "officially registered" as an NGO in Russia:

Yuvakaeva said the Russian LGBT Sport Federation was founded in 2010 as a non-political organization with the purpose of promoting and facilitating sports among Russia’s LGBT community. Among other things, it serves as a representative of the Russian LGBT community on the board of the International Federation of Gay Games.

She said Russian authorities have not sought to revoke the group’s registration following the approval earlier this year by the Russian parliament of the gay propaganda law, which Russian officials have said is aimed at protecting minors from homosexuality.

According to Yuvakaeva, authorities consider the Russia LGBT Sport Federation to be in compliance with both the propaganda law and a separate law banning certain organizations from receiving money from foreign groups or governments on grounds that the Russian sports group is non-political.

“The only thing is we couldn’t invite minors to our events and we wouldn’t spread some information among minors about our events because it’s outlawed,” she said in discussing the impact of the gay propaganda law on her group.

I wonder if other gay activists inside and outside of Russia will accuse her of being "Putin's poodle" (which was said about Nikolai Alekseev). And I wonder whether her organization will get in trouble with the "foreign agent" law because the US State Department was directly involved in issuing the invitation. (In other words, I certainly would never claim that THIS is an инициатива снизу!)

On the other hand, I would emphasize that so far, this appears to have been covered only in the Gay Media. (And it seems that neither Yuvakaeva nor Yablotsky are major sports-celebrities in Russia.)

And incidentally, Yuvakaeva said she opposed any boycott or big rainbow-flag demonstration -- instead she suggested that Olympic athletes of any sexual orientation could simply hold hands with another athlete of the same sex. In other words, the "We are all Spartacus!" approach:

PS. Another equally (in)famous scene from Spartacus -- the aristocratic Roman general Crassus (Laurence Olivier) asks his slave Antoninus (Tony Curtis) "Do you prefer to eat snails or oysters?" But of course we know he's not REALLY talking about улитки and устрицы, ho-ho-ho!



Trivia: In 1960, this scene was far too suggestive for Hollywood's team of self-censors, and so it was cut out and not publicly screened for decades. When the film was restored in the 1990s, Olivier was already dead and the audio for this scene had been lost -- so they brought in none other than Anthony Hopkins to dub Olivier's lines! Listen to the "snails or oysters" part and you can easily imagine Hannibal Lecter saying it!

The Global Divide on Homosexuality | Pew Global Attitudes Project

The only problem with this Pew survey is that the word "homosexuality" may be subject to difficulties or ambiguities in translation.* And also the words "accept," and "society," and "should". Though at least the question mark is universally understood, I suppose!

*In some cultures, for example, a "homosexual" is widely understood to be a male who takes the so-called пассивную роль when having sex with another male -- but people might not automatically assume that a male in the "active" role is a "homosexual," unless the question-asker specifically says something like: "By the expression homosexual behavior, I mean to include both the active and passive roles." For that matter, neither ancient Hebrew nor ancient Greek had a general term for "homosexual" that included both the male/male and female/female varieties; they were conceptualized separately. And I would expect that when some Russians HEAR the term "гомосексуализм", they might THINK "мужеложество", for example. (The latter word has had several different definitions at different times in Russian history, but according to Wikipedia, "мужеложество" always implied "male/male" -- as its etymology suggest -- and never included lesbian contacts.)

Now multiply these basic problems of translation and connotation by more than a dozen different languages, and it's hard to be sure how meaningful the poll results actually were.

To put it another way, if you mean to ask about public attitudes towards same-sex sodomy between men OR between women, you need to use the actual phrase "same-sex sodomy between men OR between women" in the poll; (if you only say "sodomy", some people will assume you mean the male-male kind only. And if you mean to ask about attitudes towards legalized same-sex marriage, you need to use the actual phrase "legalized same-sex marriage"; you can't say "should same-sex unions be allowed," because "legalizing" and "allowing" aren't quite the same thing, and "marriage" and "unions" aren't the same thing.

And you can't use say broad umbrella terms like "homosexuality" or "non-traditional sexual relations" and assume that the other person will understand it in the same sense that you meant it -- not if you want to get valid cross-cultural, cross-language results!

Ух ты, нас в Европу определили! А Нигерия всех сделала.

Originally Posted by maxmixiv

Ух ты, нас в Европу определили!

Если бы Турцию тоже определили в Европу (тоже спорный момент, как и с Россией), мы бы не на последнем месте были =)

Кстати, вроде бы в Америке и Азии Россию считают Европой без вопросов, в Европе, наверное, 50\50, а вот в самой России, похоже, мало кто вообще догадывается, что кто-то где-то Россию называет Европой =)

Anti-LGBT pastor running for Massachusetts gov. because ‘homosexuality is condemned by God’ | The Raw Story

A Christian evangelical pastor who has been sued for his connection to Uganda’s so-called “kill the gays” bill and taken credit for Russia’s law against homosexual “propaganda” announced that he was running for governor of Massachusetts.

In a statement earlier this week, Scott Lively said that prayer had convinced him to make a bid for Massachusetts governor.

“The people of this state need a candidate who can clearly and unapologetically articulate Biblical values without fear or compromise,” Lively remarked. “They need a candidate who will tell the simple truth that abortion is murder, and homosexuality is condemned by God (but that Jesus forgives and heals those who repent). That parents and not the state have authority over their children, because government is our servant and not our master. That socialism is slavery and humanism breeds corruption.”

“But mostly they need a leader who will remind the people that Massachusetts was founded upon Jesus Christ and the Bible and that our future security and prosperity depend on restoring our trust in Him.”

The pastor, whose Abiding Truth Ministries has been deemed a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center, went on to blame both Democrats and Republicans for legalizing same sex marriage, “promoting homosexuality to children in the public schools” and allowing “child-killing through abortion.”

“They both embrace and champion the culture of death,” he noted. “With these two liberal parties splitting the liberal vote, a true conservative independent could win the governorship.”

But Lively said he knew that winning was unlikely without some divine intervention.

“[I]t would take a miracle from God for Scott Lively to become Governor of Massachusetts — and I wouldn’t want it any other way,” the pastor insisted.

In August, a federal judge ruled that Lively must stand trial for crimes against humanity for his role in inciting the persecution of LGBT people in Uganda.

Once a non-believer came before the Rev. Scott Lively, and said unto him, "Reverend, can you summarize the whole Christian Bible while I'm standing on one foot?"

The Rev. Lively smiled calmly and replied, "If a man lies down with another man as with a woman, it is an abomination; their blood shall be upon them and they shall both be put to death. This is the whole of the Law, all the rest is commentary -- go, then, and study."

The non-believer said, "What the fucking fuck are you fucking talking about?!" and decided instead to take a class in Chinese cooking, where he made several new friends, and they all lived happily ever after. (Including the Rev. Lively, who was always happy when people asked him about the Bible.)

Originally Posted by Deborski

This is an excellent movie about Matthew Shepard, the gay man who was beaten, tortured and killed in Colorado several years ago. His story was a major turning point for the gay rights movement in the United States. In my younger years, I was homophobic (thanks to religious indoctrination) and as I grew older I remained ambivalent. But this story really changed my thinking on many levels. I realized that gay people are who they are, and beating them or persecuting will never change them. I fear that Russia will have a few Matthew Shepards of its own before attitudes in Russia change. But I do have faith that most Russians do not approve of violence or cruelty, and that eventually Russia's attitude towards gay people will change. It may be many years before this happens, but I believe that some day it will.

I highly recommend this movie for anyone who wants to understand why America is so "tolerant" of gay people. We have a long way to go even here, where gay people are gaining rights, because gay men and women are still beaten and killed by religious homophobes even in our "land of the free." And I am always the first to say when I think America does wrong - such as in the case of our global military aggression. But gay rights, I believe, is one of the good things. One of the things which makes me proud to be American.

Originally Posted by Deborski

The Global Divide on Homosexuality | Pew Global Attitudes Project

I conclude that people who feel strongly about gay rights should go and complain in places like Nigeria and Jordan, rather than Russia.

Originally Posted by Hanna

I conclude that people who feel strongly about gay rights should go and complain in places like Nigeria and Jordan, rather than Russia.

Люди будут жаловать где они живут. При чем тут Нигерия если они живут в России? Они хотят право в своих странах.

Originally Posted by Hanna

I conclude that people who feel strongly about gay rights should go and complain in places like Nigeria and Jordan, rather than Russia.

Over 70% is traditionally considered a majority with regard to opinion polls and sociologial analyses.

So with 74% Russia is above this threshold.

It's interesting that China's figure is 57 (considered as authoritarian, one-party system, not a democracy).

Statistically speaking, it's also worth mentioning that (given that Russia is assumed as Europe) Russia's NO figure is the highest in Europe

Originally Posted by Deborski

The Global Divide on Homosexuality | Pew Global Attitudes Project

А нет ли исследований, в каких странах терпимо (или не очень) относятся к коммунистам? Если такого исследования нет, то это несправедливо, так как они тоже люди и нуждаются в нашей с вами защите.
Я слышал, что в США "комми" - это обзывалка?.. А какие крупные соревнования скоро будут проводить в США, которые мы могли бы использовать для борьбы с данным отношением к коммунистам?..

Originally Posted by maxmixiv

Ух ты, нас в Европу определили! А Нигерия всех сделала.

В 1960 г. вышла книга Political Man (Lipset, Seymour Martin. Garden City, New York: Anchor Books, 1960.)
В ней при сравнении стран СССР отнесен к Европе.

Очевидно, с точки зрения геополитики (а не с географической точки зрения) Россию относят к Европе (и сама она больше тяготеет к Европе; Россия не принимает участие в чемпионате Азии по футболу, например).

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

And I would expect that when some Russians HEAR the term "гомосексуализм", they might THINK "мужеложество", for example.

It's a valid observation. But to be exact, they might think 'MALE homosexual relations of any kind', while мужеложество implies 'intercourse' (let us say it's a narrower term, ).

People tend not to think about the technical accuracy (or scientific) of the term; besides, any borrowed word or scientific term may evolve in its own way in a given language. In Russian 'homosexuality' in everyday language almost always implies male homosexuality. One shouldn't forget also that lesbian relations are often not treated as something negative, even acceptable (at least it seems to me in Russia that is the case).

The pollsters (researchers) probably (hopefully) clarified what they meant by the term 'homosexuality', but of course it's not always clear whether the interviewed understand the question 100%. Probably they had to use a broader term for the purpose of the survey (it is implied that the idea of the survey was to ask specifically about 'homosexuality', and not to make it gender-specific).