Thread: Are Russians too conservative?

Other countries have problems with racist groups, but stories like this suggest Russia has a bigger problem than most.

And for those who don't think this is a problem, well, when you treat other people as less than human you dehumanise yourself. Killing someone because you don't like the colour of their skin is not acceptable wherever you happen to be.

Originally Posted by starrysky

Why don't you all guys care?

M-m, who are you talking to? Or was it a rhetorical question?

Originally Posted by Crocodile

"...What is a progressive society? People en mass rarely reflect on what they are doing, let alone on what type of society they are. They form their opinions based on very arbitrary factors,...."

Which raises a question for me, what is confirmation bias in Russian? Can't find it in Ru wikipedia. If people examined their confirmation biases more, there would be less trouble. Maybe.

Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

M-m, who are you talking to? Or was it a rhetorical question?

No, it's not exactly rhetorical... I put this question for everyone who posts/-ed in this thread. Do you care or do you not? And if not, why? *oh god, I feel I'm gonna get on my soapbox*

It seems to me that people are really lukewarm about this sort of thing while there is reason to be worried. Don't remember if I mentioned this before but I once heard a story about how a father and his little daughter were attacked by a gang of skinheads. They beat the man to death right before his daughter's eyes. I remember I was horrified when I read this. I just imagined how I'd feel if it was my dad and I. I suppose it doesn't touch you deeply when you just hear such stuff in the news but at least there are books and films, like "To Kill A Mockingbird" by Harper Lee (excellent screen adaptation, btw), which really help to put yourself in the shoes of a person who faces racism/prejudice. Racism and prejudice are very hard to get rid of and I suppose they will always exist but I still think we are a sort of backward country when it comes such things and would do better to take notice and try to improve as a society.

Or take the thread on women in politics. It seems there were just a couple of people "for" women in politics, while others said "politics is dirty and women shouldn't participate." Maybe I don't remember correctly, there was no poll. But that was the impression I got. That's just so old-fashioned. So men get to decide about how women's everyday life is affected, huh? How is that fair? And women themselves don't think they can/should step up and do something. Just like slaves were so used to being slaves, they couldn't imagine any other life.

Which raises a question for me, what is confirmation bias in Russian?

What is confirmation bias?

Yes, Crocodile is right -- people en mass are fairly... eh... amoebic in any country. An ordinary person can't do all that much. We all have too many personal problems and work to care about any other stuff. Like, no one takes the drug-addiction or alcoholism problem seriously until someone from their close circle becomes a drug addict or an alcoholic. Alcoholism is mostly joked about and nearly everyone drinks anyway. I used to have a close relative who was a drug addict and sometimes was wondering (bitterly) why the society at large seems so indifferent. It's like you're completely on your own with this and no one cares. Now I no longer live with this, I also don't care that much. No, I sympathise with people who are going through it but what can I do? Participate in a peaceful demonstartion at most.

Originally Posted by starrysky

It seems to me that people are really lukewarm about this sort of thing while there is reason to be worried.

What can I say... Women are better than men in this regard.

Originally Posted by starrysky

No, I sympathise with people who are going through it but what can I do? Participate in a peaceful demonstartion at most.

There is a one huge problem with politics - it's so much up to the interpretation that no statistical lie could ever match that. Say, you participate in a peaceful demonstration and hold out the sign that reads: "Say NO to drugs!" What's going to happen? At the best, the politicians would just ride that wave. The left-wing politicians would blame the right-wing for the negligence of the issue and the other way around. That would do nothing to the very aggressive pyramid-style distribution chain of the drugs. At the best, the police would run a show unveiling another insignificant portion of the chain. So, the drugs would cost a little more to the drug users (because of the shortage) and the profit margin for the rest of the pyramid would raise. Some of the drug users would run out of money, so they would turn to the cheaper (and even more health-damaging) alternatives to the drugs. Or become criminals to get the money they need so desperately.

The solution to the drug problem is well-known. The one that destroys the drug distribution pyramid. But no government would currently have the guts to implement it.

I personally stopped participating in demonstrations long time ago.

Originally Posted by starrysky

Which raises a question for me, what is confirmation bias in Russian?

What is confirmation bias?

confirmation bias :"is a tendency for people to prefer information that confirms their preconceptions or hypotheses, independently of whether they are true" from wikipedia.

I should mention that not all confirmation biases are bad.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias article is available in

* Deutsch
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* 한국어
* Íslenska
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not Russian.

Originally Posted by Crocodile

There is a one huge problem with politics - it's so much up to the interpretation that no statistical lie could ever match that. Say, you participate in a peaceful demonstration and hold out the sign that reads: "Say NO to drugs!" What's going to happen? At the best, the politicians would just ride that wave. The left-wing politicians would blame the right-wing for the negligence of the issue and the other way around. That would do nothing to the very aggressive pyramid-style distribution chain of the drugs. At the best, the police would run a show unveiling another insignificant portion of the chain. So, the drugs would cost a little more to the drug users (because of the shortage) and the profit margin for the rest of the pyramid would raise. Some of the drug users would run out of money, so they would turn to the cheaper (and even more health-damaging) alternatives to the drugs. Or become criminals to get the money they need so desperately.

Well, I guess drugs are like alcohol -- they'll never go away. So all the crimes connected with them will continue, and if you're unlucky enough to come in any kind of connection, well, that's just your luck.

But on other social issues -- I do sort of believe in the power of people. Like, I've recently watched this Hindi film (oh boy, I've a way of dragging my interests into any discussion ) -- "Rang De Basanti", which is about a group of young people who are really disillusioned about the state of things in their country. (Seems India is just as corrupt as Russia). So, at first they don't think they can do anything but then tragedy strikes, which prompts them to take action. The point is -- that movie (a mere movie!)seemingly made an impact on Indian people, awakening their political consciousness and what-not.

Rang De Basanti had a noticeable impact on Indian society. A study of bloggers behavioral patterns during the first month of the film's release revealed a significant increase in public ire towards government and politicians for constantly being mired in corruption and bureaucracy and their inefficiency in providing basic amenities. Intense political discussions spurred on by the film's influence were observed in these patterns.[63] While commenting on this, writer D'Silva said that the film "has struck a chord somewhere".[92] Besides instigating political thought and discussions, it evoked social awakening for many. Some discussions rallied on how citizens should support and contribute to non-governmental organizations and exercising simple citizen duties of paying taxes and voting, while the others contemplated on how to become more responsible towards the country.[63] Unlike other Indian films with jingoistic overtones, several young Indians could relate well to the characters of this film.[93]

While such reactions were observed on the Internet, youth activism took to streets to protest on public interest issues. A direct impact was on the 1999 Jessica Lall Murder Case, one of the high-profile murder cases in India. A month after the film's release, a court acquitted the main accused because of inefficient prosecution and hostile witnesses.[94] This sparked intense civil protests and media campaigns that sought his re-arrest. Taking cue from the scene in which the protagonists hold a silent, candlelight vigil at New Delhi's India Gate, one such group of demonstrators carried out a similar rally to voice their protest.[95] Shortly thereafter, a survey was conducted to assess reasons for the sudden upsurge in people's social involvements. Eighteen percent of the respondents felt that movies like Rang De Basanti were the main reason behind it.[96] Another such massive youth activism was seen in the Priyadarshini Mattoo rape and murder case where similar rallies were organized in India, United States and around the world.[97][98] Following the release of the film, another social outcry was against the introduction of reservations for socially backward classes in educational institutions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rang_De_Basanti

I think it's pretty impressive... Especially, the protestants managing to overturn a court's decision and making the muderer son of a high-ranking official go to jail. Somehow I can't imagine such a thing happening in Russia. Though we are supposedly a more progressive society.

Originally Posted by Seraph

confirmation bias :"is a tendency for people to prefer information that confirms their preconceptions or hypotheses, independently of whether they are true" from wikipedia.

Aaah, thanks for the clarification, Seraph.

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

Go to prison? Don't be f***ing ridiculous, dude.

The Negroes would strip the meat from your bones with their razor-sharp teeth (after first paralyzing you with the fast-acting neurotoxins in their poison glands) before the police could even think about arresting you.

All true. I've seen movies about that. Blade and Blade II.

Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

[I remember Olya saying that she's never seen a skinhead in her life, while mishau_ (if I remember correctly) was sure that Russia is swarming with them. Are there any reliable sources?

She lives in the biggest city on the European continent and she has never seen a skinhead?!! That's very strange.

But I think it was more common in the late eighties and nineties than it is now.
They are not dangerous if you are 'white'. Largely it's just confused teenagers. It's a shame though, and one has to wonder how much of that ideology stays with them after they stop outwardly being a skinhead. It's considered a working class thing in most countries I think.

Apparently there are plenty of skins both in Russia and the US. At least that's what I've read in the papers. In the Northern part of Europe there are plenty of them too -- just kids who don't like immigrants/refugees and have nothing better to do...

They get into fights with gangs of immigrant kids who are just as stupid as they are. They drink a lot too.... There are some examples of skins who are criminal but usually they are not.
Even Britain has some skins and largely they are just confused idiots.

Some skins attacked me late at night at a train station when I was about 17 or so. It was scary but nothing happened in the end, they backed off and left. I am certainly white enough but they wanted money and accused me of being an anarchist.

If you don't know what they look like, you can easily recognise them from the jacket and the haircut.

Are you sure you don't have those in Moscow?

Originally Posted by Hanna

Are you sure you don't have those in Moscow?

Таких?

Или таких (перепостил отсюда):

Вот вам вроде бы традиционно наряжённая невеста: ...Церковное венчание предполагает и соблюдение ряда правил относительно платья невесты. Венчальный наряд не должен быть ярким, тёмным и красным. Лучше выбрать платье светлых пастельных тонов, желательно, белого. Спина, плечи и руки до локтей должны быть закрыты. ...

Originally Posted by Lampada

Спина, плечи и руки до локтей должны быть закрыты. ... [/i]

Ага! Пупок, значит, таки можно наружу выставлять.

OMG that bride has her suspenders and string knickers showing! Nothing wrong with such underwear in in themselves..... but showing it IN CHURCH, at one's wedding??? Very tacky in my opinion!

She ought to have had her marriage outside... on the beach or something.

I doubt she is religious at all, or she'd realise that that is a disrespectful way to dress in church.

Not religious, at least superstitious pagans at cinical atheists.

Originally Posted by Hanna

I doubt she is religious at all, or she'd realise that that is a disrespectful way to dress in church.

Well, the minister doesn't seem to mind...

Originally Posted by Vincent Tailors

Of course not. What a dumb question.

Agreed. It is the best the way it is.

Originally Posted by SAn

Why we need to love gays and negroes to live better?

I first seen a negro when I was a child (approximately 7-8 years old). I was shocked, cried, and ran to my mother. She explained me that far away are living black-skinned people (called negroes), and sometimes they are going to Russia, even into our small town Taganrog.

So, if they are so good, why they are scaring small children?

I know this is an old response but i fell out my chair laughing about this reponse. Im still laughing.

Just to confirm... you are trolling, right, SAn? I mean, no-one could actually be that stupid in reality... could they?

Well, you guys are russian and you can tell me.

I'm brazilian and married to a russian women. I have the ordinary brazilian (latin) skin, not black, not white, we call it "moreno". Last year I was in Moscow (in the summer), and everyone was telling me to be carefull with people there, because they might want to beat me up or something like that.
In the end, nothing happened, not even a police check, but I'm not sute if this was because ALL the time I was with my (very) russian wife, or because things are getting better, or they were just lying? Other chance, maybe people are nicer in the summer? []

We're going to Moscow again in this summer, probably July/August. I intended to go on a football match, like CSKA x Spartak, or some game like that. Would I have any problems at a stadium?

What I mean is, was I just lucky that I didn't suffer with any prejudice last year, or no?