Thread: Are Russians too conservative?

Fabricio you are from Sao Paulo, Brazil - right?
From the things I have heard, I believe that is a more dangerous city than Moscow! I know a woman whose brother got kidnapped in Sao Paulo in the 1980s. Her family paid ransom to the kidnappers, but the brother was never returned, probably killed. I have also heard about people using chauffeured cars in the city because there is such a big risk of being mugged (rich people, probably, but still... )

Of course, it is worrying if random dark skinned people are attacked for no reason in Moscow. Not sure how true that is... but if there IS truth to it, then I wouldn't want to go there if I was black or mixed race. Heard many horrible stories of muggings and shady setups in Russia in the 90s but I THINK such things have stopped now, or are less common.

I once met an African man who had studied in Moscow. He had a good impression of Moscow and did not mention anything about racism.

Originally Posted by Marcus

Базил 77 сказал, что это всё выдумки, что задело меня, поскольку я только что привёл собственный опыт.

Я такого не говорил. Я сказал, что западные сми преувеличивают масштаб проблемы и остаюсь при своём мнении. Мне очень жаль, что с тобой случилась неприятная история. Кстати, только сегодня слушал по радио начальника московской милиции и он сообщил интересные факты: 47% преступлений против личности в Москве совершаются приезжими, большинство из которых принадлежит к "неславянским", так сказать, национальностям. Около 70% населения Москвы - этнические русские (для сравнения в среднем по России - более 80%). Из этих цифр можно сделать два нехитрых вывода: Москва - гораздо более мультикультурный город, чем среднестатистический российский крупный город. И второй: русские гораздо чаще оказываются жертвами насилия со стороны приезжих, чем сами становятся преступниками. Только почему-то если несколько русских бьют кавказца - они нацисты, а если несколько кавказцев бьют русского, они просто хулиганы. Я не оправдываю ни тех, ни других: и то и другое отвратительно. Просто либерастическое нытьё про засилие русских фашиков уже достало.

Originally Posted by Hanna

Fabricio you are from Sao Paulo, Brazil - right?
From the things I have heard, I believe that is a more dangerous city than Moscow! I know a woman whose brother got kidnapped in Sao Paulo in the 1980s. Her family paid ransom to the kidnappers, but the brother was never returned, probably killed. I have also heard about people using chauffeured cars in the city because there is such a big risk of being mugged (rich people, probably, but still... )

Of course, it is worrying if random dark skinned people are attacked for no reason in Moscow. Not sure how true that is... but if there IS truth to it, then I wouldn't want to go there if I was black or mixed race. Heard many horrible stories of muggings and shady setups in Russia in the 90s but I THINK such things have stopped now, or are less common.

I once met an African man who had studied in Moscow. He had a good impression of Moscow and did not mention anything about racism.

Hanna, read the topic, some posts back you can read one guy that said he was beaten for not being russian, because of his skin.

As I said back some posts also, probably São Paulo is more dangerous in numbers than Moscow, but the "reasons" for it are not the same. Here, one would NEVER be beaten/robbed/etc because of his/her skin color. You probably would be robbed if you go with a fancy Iphone, jewelery, in the middle of a favela. The same in the bad areas of Moscow. The same in the bad areas of New York. Anywhere.

Их называют нацистами по факту. У них не было никаких причин меня бить. Мы даже не разговаривали, и я их никак не задел. Я был с другом (белым), и они его не тронули. Они ничего у меня не взяли и кричали: "Россия для русских".

Хотя это тоже справедливо:

В Москве живёт огромное количество выходцев из Средней Азии, и ничего. Русские в Чечне, например, жить не могут. На Западе действительно преувеличивают роль этих организаций, тем более что они везде существуют.
Но отрицать их существование нельзя.

А ещё такие "скинхеды" бывают.
Осторожно! Это видео не способствует укреплению дружбы между народами.
YouTube - ‪"Ты русский?" Если "да", то нокаут‬‏


Всякого у нас можно найти.

I just discovered something... interesting... or disturbing, not quite sure.

Russians are the new idols of the anti immigration movement in Northern Europe! I had no idea these people were so keen on Russia. I was just scrolling the massive Scandinavian forum for everything and anything under the sun and decided to check out the latest from the national socialists or whatever they call themselves these days (they always change names).

Apparently the perception is that "Russia has protected Europe against Moslem invasion for centuries..." "Russians fight wars with a singlemindedness that others lack", "Russians are the strongest single group within the white movement etc, etc". They are talking about "our Russian brothers" and lots of other things along those lines. Interesting, since this movement hated Russians about 20 years ago. But now they are planning trips to Russia etc.

I can't be fussed to translate it because these posts are generally quite stupid... but I have never seen a Western European person express so much admiration for Russia as these people do.

This makes me wonder whether racism in Russia isn't a bigger problem than I had understood.

I read one of their books recently and I have to admit I haven't had such good laughs in a while. There are so many things to quote, so I'm not sure which one is the best. This one came up right away:

Важно отметить, что Свастика не только религиозный символ. Это символ несущий знание о формах мироустройства. Астрономы наблюдают множество галактик в форме Свастики. И наша галактика (Млечный Путь) имеет Свастичную форму. Только с Земли эту форму не увидишь. Наше Солнце находится в одном из Свастичных рукавов, а сама наша солнечная система лежит в плоскости вращения нашей Свастичной галактики. Мы видим с Земли Млечный Путь только как полосу. А структуру Млечного Пути можно увидеть только с планет, перпендикулярных плоскости вращения, например, с планет созвездия Большой и Малой Медведицы. Именно оттуда пришли наши предки и принесли знания о Свастике. Это макрокосмос.

Originally Posted by Hanna

...This makes me wonder whether racism in Russia isn't a bigger problem than I had understood.

Maybe because of historical lack of democracy in comparison to the West Russia has a tradition of low responsibility in political ideas. It means that it is more usual for a Russian to have an extreme political idea of any sort and degree of insanity. And in common life people are usually more tolerant to your "bugs in the head", unless you are making some direct violence.

Maybe because of historical lack of democracy in comparison to the West Russia has a tradition of low responsibility in political ideas. It means that it is more usual for a Russian to have an extreme political idea of any sort and degree of insanity. And in common life people are usually more tolerant to your "bugs in the head", unless you are making some direct violence.

Какая ещё "демократия"и тем более её недостаток? "Демократия" - не более чем пропагандистский термин, использующийся Западом для самовозвеличивания и самооправдания. Какая на Западе политическая ответственность у простых людей?

Interesting, since this movement hated Russians about 20 years ago. But now they are planning trips to Russia etc.

They probably know nothing about Russia, so their opinion is not based on Russian reality.

Originally Posted by Hanna

I just discovered something... interesting... or disturbing, not quite sure...

Don't pay much attention, 99% of those people are just stupid schoolboys. The really disturbing is the remaining percent, wich are very cynic adult people who are using those kids for playing dirty political games playing on the worst strings of human nature.

These groups see that all Western countries are doing their utmost to flood their countries with non-whites while Russian isn't, hence they think Russians are racists and that Russia is the "last hope." Problem is they don't know any Russians, don't speak Russian and have never been there. The occasional high profile racially motivated attack confirms their views. But they aren't aware of nationalist/racists (whatever label) being put away, sometimes for life depending on the crime(s), as the
Western press wouldn't touch those stories with a 10 foot pole.

There are a lot of immigrants from Central Asia and some other places in Russia too. The difference is we don't have developed social policy for immigrants. So they rarely move here with families, they just work here and send money home.

Have you guys seen what happened?

"На 90-й минуте матча «Крылья Советов» - «Анжи» (0:3) в защитника махачкалинцев Роберто Карлоса с трибуны кинули банан.

ВИДЕО СКАНДАЛЬНОГО ЭПИЗОДА СМОТРИТЕ ЗДЕСЬ

Футболист в знак протеста ушел с поля. Сел на скамейку запасных и накрылся полотенцем.

Напомним, что в начале сезона Роберто Карлосу уже пришлось испытать подобные эмоции. Тогда в Санкт-Петербурге в рамках второго тура во время поднятия государственного флага РФ бразильцу протянул банан неизвестный, которого найти так и не удалось. За тот инцидент «Зенит» был оштрафован на 300 тыс. рублей. "

I also felt outraged for him.

Fabricio, that is just silly, childish, rude behaviour. Somebody should give them a slap so they remember for next time! I don't think it's racism precisely, is it? Wouldn't they have treated a white Brazilian the same way, or what do you think? There is nothing political about a banana, is there?

And what exactly is so wrong about those bananas? Is banana a symbol of something abusive?

Ah, so he was black and it is because bananas are originally from Africa as well as black people? Well, if someone in Afrika will give Russian guy a bottle of vodka, I doubt it will be taken as abusion, unless it is a vodka of extremely bad quality.

Originally Posted by fabriciocarraro

"На 90-й минуте матча «Крылья Советов» - «Анжи» (0:3) в защитника махачкалинцев Роберто Карлоса с трибуны кинули банан.

Футболист в знак протеста ушел с поля. Сел на скамейку запасных и накрылся полотенцем.

One more point. That is a guy who is making sport show, a star. He is expected by public to be "a real man". In that situation he had several options to earn respect from simple public. He could take a banana and make with it something funny, he could throw a banana back, he could show a middle finger or a fist to the banana thrower, he could just ignore the situation - that would be good enough. Instead he behaved like a spoiled child.

After that he must be ready to expect much more bananas from his former fans, I think.

Originally Posted by it-ogo

Well, if someone in Afrika will give Russian guy a bottle of vodka, I doubt it will be taken as abusion, unless it is a vodka of extremely bad quality.

Well on the one hand, I see the connection Africa > Banana > Roberto Carlos > mixed race guy..
(but it is actually quite far fetched, and bananas are just..... silly! ) And Roberto Carlos is not even particularly black, is he? He looks a bit like a Southern European person to me. Greek maybe.

But Russians and vodka is the sort of example I was thinking of, but I couldn't think of a good example.

And is it racism on football matches, when the fans from other countries make the Nazi salute and shout "Sieg Heil" to the Germans? It happens every time they have an international game.

Personally I think both the bananas and the hitler salutes are tasteless, and the vodka would be an expensive joke.

People who can't behave like adults and respect a professional player like Roberto Carlos should be banned from games.