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About LinkBacksReally, did they? I paid zero attention to anything that happened in Russia for most of the 1990s.Originally Posted by dtrq
I thought the reason for the war was that they wanted independence and Russia wouldn't grant it.
Really, did they? I paid zero attention to anything that happened in Russia for most of the 1990s.
I thought the reason for the war was that they wanted independence and Russia wouldn't grant it.
Accords of Khasavurt were technically a cease fire which ultimately led to a peace treaty which, de-facto, acknowledged the independence or Republic Ichkeriya. They were independant from 1996 till 1999 when they invaded Dagestan. During these years there were numerous acts of terrorism in many Russian cities, abductions, slave trade. They printed false dollars, smuggled tons of drugs, etc.
When Putin had succeeded Yeltsin the Second Chechen war began.
P.S. Strangely enough, I knew about these accords but never thought of Chechnya as an independent state. Nevertheless, according to these treaties, they were independent not only de-facto, but de-jure as well.
Send me a PM if you need me.
Нет? Сhechnya's independence is receiving over 30 billion dollars from Pootie although only Kadyrov and his buddies (or immediate connections) benefit. Possibly, rivals are kept silent this way?
But, Dagestan could try for independence? Perhaps, they should try to have a referendum? I am sure Russians are allowed to support such a democratic endeavour?
Indeed, it's quite ruthless of us to fund the Republic of Chechnya with such enormous money. Maybe we should have just bombed the sh~ out of them back in 2000 just like the US do.
Of course they could. Considering that your analogy goes from the situation in Crimea, would you also like to add the Republic of Dagestan to your country as a full-fledged region thus granting all of its residents with your country's citizenship with all the rights it guarantees, including all the social expenses and protection? Just like we do in Crimea?But, Dagestan could try for independence? Perhaps, they should try to have a referendum? I am sure Russians are allowed to support such a democratic endeavour?
If yes... Comrades, I think we've just found a huge money-saving option
It's okay, Putin's gift of all those billions meant that Russians didn't have that benefit so whatever citizens suffered or were killed by Chechen criminals is good enough, right? I'm sure Russians didn't need those 30+ billions and I read that there are promises of 80B more by 2025. Putin is so generous. It's amusing that you think that no one is hurt by these gifts. You should be a comedian.Indeed, it's quite ruthless of us to fund the Republic of Chechnya with such enormous money. Maybe we should have just bombed the sh~ out of them back in 2000 just like the US do.
Of course they could. Considering that your analogy goes from the situation in Crimea, would you also like to add the Republic of Dagestan to your country as a full-fledged region thus granting all of its residents with your country's citizenship with all the rights it guarantees, including all the social expenses and protection? Just like we do in Crimea?
If yes... Comrades, I think we've just found a huge money-saving option
The analogy is that Russia was so ohhhhhh soooo concerned about rights for those in Crimea, so concerned about the Russians there (as he's proven time and time again to be concerned about Russians, of course.... LOL) so I suggested he should be really concerned and give Dagestan the same choice. But, Russians supposedly can't suggest separation of republics by law. I'm suggesting hypocrisy among other things. Sorry, it wasn't clear to you.
Hypocricy is what we learn from 'civilized' countries. One cannot be democratic enough without it.
Send me a PM if you need me.
Lurk the Internet and try to find any well-known Chechen field commanders who are still alive and didn't surrender. Don't be amazed if they happen to hide (and spread their specific version of radical islam) in your own country now.
It's clear that we've separated more than enough during 1991-1993. Try to do the same with your country and then lecture us about admiring a nation's sovereignty.The analogy is that Russia was so ohhhhhh soooo concerned about rights for those in Crimea, so concerned about the Russians there (as he's proven time and time again to be concerned about Russians, of course.... LOL) so I suggested he should be really concerned and give Dagestan the same choice. But, Russians supposedly can't suggest separation of republics by law. I'm suggesting hypocrisy among other things. Sorry, it wasn't clear to you.
could someone who is closer (or more familiar) with the Crimean situation prior to the referendum explain to me the (initial) presence of the military forces that were displaying no country signs. did they come from Russia (as was widely reported in the media where i live)? If i follow the argument of various commentators here, Russia by some agreement had the right to have a presence of 25000 or so forces in the Crimea. If that is so, why then would these 'legal' and organised troops then not display their country identity?
please always correct my (often poor) russian
Piss off, Baldy.
Чечня потратит на восстановление 111 миллиардов рублей -
WaYNaKH Online
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zyalt: Ураза-байрам в Москве
The Duma is pursuing prison terms which is being called incitement to separation and for publicly expressing sympathy for separatist movements. So, if you question the territory integrity of Russia, you will be charged and convicted. This is analogous to the Crimea situation except that Ukraine allowed the referendum and Russia didn't care about taking territory. Hypocrisy at its finest.
Don't you have any shame? A foreigner makes you look like a fool...
Chechens do whatever they want there. Maybe you need to inform yourself about Russia.
Ты постоянно переходишь на личности, что резко и негативно обостряет дискуссию и делает тебя фактически троллем. Следующий раз, когда ты пойдёшь в персональную или в групповую атаку, будешь забанен на 7 дней.Piss off, Baldy.
Чечня потратит на восстановление 111 миллиардов рублей -
WaYNaKH Online
Russia: Yuri Budanov’s Assassination Exposes Deep Wounds of Chechen Wars
Blood Brotherhood: Chechen organised crime | In Moscow's Shadows
Calls for Russia’s breakup must not be left unpunished – Putin — RT Russian politics
zyalt: Ураза-байрам в Москве
The Duma is pursuing prison terms which is being called incitement to separation and for publicly expressing sympathy for separatist movements. So, if you question the territory integrity of Russia, you will be charged and convicted. This is analogous to the Crimea situation except that Ukraine allowed the referendum and Russia didn't care about taking territory. Hypocrisy at its finest.
Don't you have any shame? A foreigner makes you look like a fool...
Chechens do whatever they want there. Maybe you need to inform yourself about Russia.
"...Важно, чтобы форум оставался местом, объединяющим людей, для которых интересны русский язык и культура. ..." - MasterАdmin (из переписки)
Some of them could come from Russia for strengthening. But anyway it was made according to the agreement. So you can't call it 'invasion.' It's a lie.
Because you need to devide these legal troops into three parts: so-called 'folk self-defense', some of the Ukrainian soldiers who took Russian side and, in fact, some legal Russian troops. All of them have been using Russian uniform.If i follow the argument of various commentators here, Russia by some agreement had the right to have a presence of 25000 or so forces in the Crimea. If that is so, why then would these 'legal' and organised troops then not display their country identity?
They don't use their identification signs because it's kinda 'ruse of war.' The agreement says that the Russian command has to inform Ukrainian party about the movements of Russian troops. But if one can't recognize an identity, no one can say that the agreement is broken. Although I think it's only 'playing safe', no more. Since the Ukrainian Government is an illegal junta, Russian part must not inform them.
Yet another extremely embarrasing conversation caught on tape and leaked. I wonder how this happens exactly. Is it Russia listening, or do they have inside moles taping their conversations and then leaking?
Anyway, nuking Eastern Ukraine, is this woman insane?
Plus it's interesting that they are such Ukrainian patriots and still speaking Russian, how does that add up?
Hanna, you should get used to that all the Ukrainian politicians are insane in a varying degree. If they were normal, we wouldn't get this crazy situation.Anyway, nuking Eastern Ukraine, is this woman insane?
Modern Ukrainian "language" which was made out of the Ukrainian dialect is an artificial language. You are not a native Russian speaker so you hardly notice how they torture themselves speaking Ukrainian in public. They must look like true patriots, but nature takes its course. Of course, no one wants/needs to speak an artificial language in a private conversation.Plus it's interesting that they are such Ukrainian patriots and still speaking Russian, how does that add up?
The video is pretty obviously edited around the time she supposedly said
их расстреливать с ядерного оружия
Also I think the translation is incorrect - the man didn't say "what should we do with the 8 million Russians who stayed in Ukraine" he said "what should the 8 million Russians who stayed in Ukraine do" что теперь делать оставшимся восьми миллионам русских, которые остались на территории Украини
Says who? Fine. You can have your own special opinion about the Ukrainian language.
"...Важно, чтобы форум оставался местом, объединяющим людей, для которых интересны русский язык и культура. ..." - MasterАdmin (из переписки)
I kinda support Paul in his opinion. Although I don't consider Ukrainian language (or dialect) particularly artificial, but its official, public version (which is spoken in news and official speeches) surely was modified over the last two decades to distance from Russian language even more.
Yet that's not the problem. The thing is that most of Ukrainian politicians grew up in mixed language environment and it's only natural for them to happen to be actually thinking in Russian. And in this case it is indeed uneasy to remember all those quirky Ukrainian words. Moreover, there are much evidence that even the "Right sector" nationalists are not very good in Ukrainian.
В какой-то мере я поддерживаю Пашу в его мнении. Хотя я не считаю украинский язык (или диалект) именно искусственным, но его официальный, публичный вариант (на котором говорят в новостях и публичных выступлениях) определенно изменялся последние два десятилетия с целью еще больше отдалиться от русского языка.
И все же проблема не в этом. Дело в том, что большинство украинских политиков выросло в смешанной языковой среде, и для них вполне естественно на самом деле думать на русском языке. А в таком случае это и впрямь нелегко - вспоминать все эти хитрые украинские словечки.
Более того, есть немало примеров того, что даже националисты из "Правого сектора" не так уж сильны в украинском.
rZsH3wN9Lbo.jpg
Interesting. The conversation looks like the common BS by the shocked people. It consists of phrases that express nothing but strong emotions and obviously have nothing to do with real planning etc. Conversations like that obviously had many simple Ukrainians just after invasion. That is why I believe it is afakepefrormance. The woman is a cold-blooded power-hungry b@@@ch, she does not ever think like that, but easily can make a public performance (playing a common simple-minded person) to raise up her nowadays low ratings. So I believe that the leakage is intended and is an internal PR action of Julia: she wants to show that she shares the emotions of the people.
As for Russian language in Ukraine, didn't I explain? It is more common than Ukrainian. As for "8 millions of Russians" JD already commented about a "petty" misinterpretation in translation. Keep in mind that former opposition, current government, the list of killed people in Maidan ("Heavenly Hundred") etc. all are full of ethnic not-so-Ukrainians. And Julia Timoshenko herself is also ethnic not-so-Ukrainian despite of her Ukrainian last name that she took from her husband.
"Россия для русских" - это неправильно. Остальные-то чем лучше?
An interesting historical analogy. Featuring Hitler again, but the point is different.
Ex-Army - Libertarian Nationalist: Pat Buchanan on the Idiotic Ukraine MessIn the run-up to World War II, the Brits, in their wisdom, guaranteed the Poles that they'd defend the Polish border from Hitler for them, which Britain didn't have the power to do. This had the effect (Pat wrote) of making the Polish government idiotically self-confident and cocky. So much so, that they refused to even discuss the German territory that had short-sightedly been awarded to Poland at Versailles. And that territory was old German territory, that had been Prussian territory before the German state even existed. The thought that Hitler, or any German leader, would let that state of affairs continue indefinitely was just plain stupid.
My own thinking is that if the Brits had kept their busybody noses out of it, the Poles might very well have been sensible and prudent enough to negotiate with Germany, and have ceded all or part of the disputed territory to Germany, and conceivably even have ended up with an alliance with Hitler to protect them from the Soviets, and the war just might have been avoided entirely.
Now we have a similar situation. When the Soviet Union fell apart, things were so disorganized that Ukraine, traditionally a part of Russia anyway, became an independent country with enormous numbers of Russians in it, most significantly in Crimea.
Now we have nutcases like McCain, and draft-dodger Joe Biden, running around squawking that we'll defend any number of places from Putin. The deep-thinking neocon philosophers, also mostly draft-dodgers, are ramping up the war talk as well. Could this make the governments of these countries as adamant and pig-headed as the Poles were decades ago? Human nature being what it is, that's quite likely.
Yes, we have an objective opinion about Ukrainian dialect. According to the rules, Ukrainian dialect can't be considered as a language. If someone doesn't agree, it's their problem. I don't need to support somebody's political decision and call white black.
It-ogo, I just want to point out that Western media makes a VERY big thing out of Ukrainian language.
Essentially they would have the rest of Europe believing that the language that most people in Ukraine speak, is Ukrainian. This didn't tally with my experience, but I only visited two cities and was really beginning to question myself, sort of "maybe they WERE speaking Ukrainian and I just didn't notice (however I can definitely tell the difference).
So there is a big campaign of mis-information going on about this, as if Russian was forced on Ukraine and people are now happy to speak their own language.
The conversation was far too muddled and fast for me to hear much at all, I only understood snippets here and there. Without the translation I wouldn't have understood what they were talking about. So I didn't notice the editing, but if it everyone is certain, I trust you on this. Very sneaky to edit the tape!
Julia Timoshenko seems very unpleasant! I liked her at first, simply because she's a woman, and I thought the braid was a cool touch.... But I understand now she is a ruthless and corrupt business woman/oligarch who wants to manipulate Ukrainian politics for her own ends.
If they say they have their own language, then they do! I think you should respect that.
Just because you as a Russian can understand some of it, doesn't mean it's not a separate language.
The two languages are not even fully mutually understandable, you can't understand ALL Ukrainian, can you? Nor could you speak it, could you? It has sounds that Russian doesn't have, and some different letters, as well as words that are completely different. Even I know this!
As a Swedish person I can understand ALL Norwegian, and Norway used to be Swedish territory. I could even pretend to speak Norwegian if I wanted. But it would never occur to me to claim that Norwegian is not a separate language. They say it's a different language, they have their own spelling and some words that are separate.
Saying that Ukrainian is a dialect of Russian and not a separate language seems to be deliberately provocative towards [some] Ukrainians, and it gives fuel to the anti Russian sentiment in Ukraine. Is that really helpful?
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