Thread: Occupy Wall Street around the world.... Your thoughts and feelings about it!

Originally Posted by nulle

If americans do not want to limit fuel consumption now - then prices like 20$ per litre will do it for them later.
And then they will sell their hummers for scrap metal...
10 years ago fuel here was 3x cheaper than it is now.
In 2000 fuel (95 gasoline) price in Latvia was about 0,60$ per litre - now - 1,80$ per litre.
And it will not get cheaper.

You see, it's not that simple. A Hummer can theoretically also run on a renewable fuel like biodiesel or use some other eco-friendly stuff like fuel cells where the electricity to split hydrogen was obtained from water/wind turbines installed in some very remote areas. I think I mentioned it a couple of times in this forum, but, there's a HUGE difference between limiting the level of consumption and a way of securing it. Let me give you a simple example. Say, some 12,000 years ago the humanity grew in numbers and, as a result of the not-very-eco-friendly way of securing food (i.e. the hunting), the amount of food shrunk considerably causing a famine. That was a first global ecological catastrophe the humanity ever knew. So, two options came alive. First, limit the amount of consuming food (i.e. somebody had ceased to live). Second, move to the agricultural civilization and go on eating and grow in numbers. Apparently, the humanity went the second way. Consequently, several other ecological disasters loomed over the millenia. Like, people could no longer burn the forests before planting their grain and move on burning other forests, but rather switch to the more settled way and just swap fields rather than constantly looking for new ones. Even in the beginning of the 20th century there was danger of famine as the land was unable to sustain that many people. So, the fertilizers were invented and used. And later on a similar problem was solved by means of the GM-food. And each and every time the humanity was faced with the request to limit consumption and yet it went on and on evading the dangers. So, now you're saying the "1,80$ per litre" would do the trick?

Originally Posted by Hanna

I really like this movement. Nice to see that people are waking up!
Has it reached Russia? Elsewhere in Europe it seems to have caught on too. I read about similar protests in Italy, Germany in Sweden today.
It's interesting how media are portraying the demonstrators as hooligans when they are really regular people who are participating for the first time.

In hindsight maybe that last sentence should be changed?

This should be interesting:

OWS Protesters Calling For 'Day Of Action' Following Loss Of Camp In Zuccotti Park

Scott

Interesting - how foreign corporations are operating in Russia - do they have to pay bribes too?

Interesting - how foreign corporations are operating in Russia - do they have to pay bribes too?

Of course, they do.

Throwing stuff at policemen will not win the heart and minds of most Americans:

Violence Escalates At 'Occupy' Protests In New York City | Fox News

Scott

Originally Posted by fortheether

Throwing stuff at policemen will not win the heart and minds of most Americans:

Violence Escalates At 'Occupy' Protests In New York City | Fox News

Scott

We wanted to shut down business as usual. I think we've done that.

Would it be somewhat criminal if I wanted to shut them down?

Some small businessmen in the area are now protesting the occupiers:

Downtown Workers in NYC Take on 'Occupy' Protesters - Fox News Video - Fox News

Funny sign: "Occupy a Desk!"

Scott

Are these the goals of the occupiers???

Blog: What does Occupy Wall Street Want?

I found some here:

99 Percent Declaration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Liberty Square Blueprint - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You folks that support this movement what do you think of these goals?

Scott

Repeal the Taft-Hartley Act. Unionize ALL workers immediately.

Here we have some bolshevik ideologists...

Open the borders to all immigrants, legal or illegal. Offer immediate, unconditional amnesty, to all undocumented residents of the US

And a bunch of Spanish speaking comrades. xD

You and I do not have the same worldview at all. You might as well say that the sun is blue.

Was it only me who found this self-centered and hypocritical?

http://www.cleanupwashington.org/doc.../RevovDoor.pdf.
Revolving door between the US Government and Industry.
American Policy Center .
Revolving Door: 1,447 Former Government Workers Lobbying For Wall Street | Common Dreams.
Monsanto employees and government regulatory agencies employees are the same people!.
Government-industry revolving door - SourceWatch.
Revolving Regulators: SEC Faces Ethics Challenges with Revolving Door.
And on and on and on and more and more and more. The amount of material about these things is so great that you could never get to the end of it...If you don't know who drives the political machine by now and runs big gov, maybe you never will.

all they want is everyone making no more than $40,000 a year ($20 an hour)

Well - many people in Latvia earn 20$ per day, not per hour...
minimum wage here is about 280$ per month after taxes.
So I would be really glad to be as poor as average 99% american.

Just don't forget that this may come with increased social inequality, higher criminal rate and no social protection (like pension)
Balance is the key

So - I - working man - should pay some bum that does not want to work, otherwise he will steal my bike or rob my apartment?

Originally Posted by nulle

So - I - working man - should pay some bum that does not want to work, otherwise he will steal my bike or rob my apartment?

Don't tell me that this is a surprise for you
Don't tell me that you don't do that now - you paying 25% (min) to Latvian government as taxes and it's up to them what to do with your taxes, Latvia as not ultra right it's very liberal

http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/12004

Dov Seidman on his book "How: Why How We Do Anything Means Everything”
Also on Occupy...

on Monday, November 21, 2011

I think that, as usual, the truth is somewhere in between. I mean, on the one hand there are lots of people on a financial relief who just plain enjoy the situation and are busy making some extra untaxed cash on top of what the government (=the other people that is) is providing them with. On the other hand, though, there are lots of people who would LOVE to go on doing skilled jobs and are qualified to do it, but are plain stuck with some specific situations: like they don't have the local experience and have poor lying skills to pretend they do. Even though I'm also on the conservative side, and I think the socialism and communism are definitely not the way to go, I must admit the capitalism also has lots of embedded social issues. So, there should be some balance and, I guess, the only way to get close to it would be to allow the competition between the left and the right to make the system fluctuate around some optimal values.

Also, kidkboom, if you allow me to make a comment, there seems to be a noticeable gap in some of the leftist logical deductions you mentioned above. You see, it is definitely humane to share what you have, and it's also socially-proven as right throughout the centuries. However, there are various ways to get there. Do you think a BUREAUCRAT would be a better person to distribute the 'extra wealth' fairly? Do you think you are not capable to make that decision yourself of how much you want to spend and to whom you want to give it? Are you aware that some very rich people find it humane to establish their own relief funds and campaign for it among their circles and in the media? I bet you are, but it seems like a tiny drop in the ocean of what needs to be done, particularly because MOST OF THE MONEY HAD ALREADY BEEN TAKEN BY THAT VERY BUREAUCRAT and spent to whatever that guy seems right. Have you ever seen how much power and influence those officers have? And they use that power to their own satisfaction. They are generally rude, speak their narrow mind with superiority and they know those who are on a relief usually don't have much choice and have to take it all. No wonder the not-so-fortunate people's perception of the government is usually formed based on their own experience with those rude officers. And you can't blame them, but in the end you have a situation with people who don't work anywhere (or work illegally constantly worrying because legally they can't make an extra dollar as they would loose all their benefits) and at the same time they hate the government and (SURPRISE!) everybody who makes more money. So, you don't spit in their change cup, but instead of giving them some change you would open your wallet to a stranger and say: "ok, ask how much the poor people in this street need, take that from my wallet and give it to them." So, after doing that you wonder why instead of the grateful "thank you" all you hear is the shouts of hatred and envy from the alcohol-n-drug impaired people in your neighborhood. Can that situation qualify as what you intended it to be?

Uploaded by OccupyTVNY on Nov 21, 2011

Originally Posted by Lampada

Uploaded by OccupyTVNY on Nov 21, 2011

I like the music in the video. Do they have any videos of what their goals are and how to achieve them?

Scott

Вот хорошо разжевано.

(Some good analysis in Russian.)