Thread: Latest from Ukraine

Originally Posted by UhOhXplode

... But the real question is this - When was the referendum of the Crimean people to join Ukraine? Khrushchev did NOT have the authority to give part of Russia to Ukraine. So how can giving Crimea to Ukraine be legal? It's NOT legal to give part of Russia to another country without even a referendum.
...

i suppose you are saying the sowjet union acted illegally at the time

Originally Posted by eisenherz

i suppose you are saying the sowjet union acted illegally at the time

No. I'm saying that Nikita Khrushchev acted illegally at the time. The hammer and sickle represent the working people and the most important principle of communism was to give the power to the working people. So if Crimea was to leave Russia and become annexed to Ukraine then it should have been the decision of the working people in Crimea.
Giving part of a country to another country with only a decree is something a Tsar would do, NOT a communist leader. The act of one man giving Crimea and Sevastopol to the Ukraine defies the principles of communism. It also defies the principles of self-determination.

c

Originally Posted by UhOhXplode

No. I'm saying that Nikita Khrushchev acted illegally at the time. The hammer and sickle represent the working people and the most important principle of communism was to give the power to the working people. ...

glad you found a culprit that would absolve the sowjet union of accountability back then and give justification for annexation now...
so easy... just blame Nikita Khrushchev

you should have told that logic to the Germans - it was Adolf Hitler, not us. Can you see the problem with this line of thinking?

Originally Posted by eisenherz

c

glad you found a culprit that would absolve the sowjet union of accountability back then and give justification for annexation now...
so easy... just blame Nikita Khrushchev

you should have told that logic to the Germans - it was Adolf Hitler, not us. Can you see the problem with this line of thinking?

If you are talking about the annexation of GDR by FRG in 1989 you are right. Hitler has nothing to do with it.

Originally Posted by SergeMak

If you are talking about the annexation of GDR by FRG in 1989 you are right. Hitler has nothing to do with it.

@ SergeMak, i normally respect your arguments, even if we are of different opinons. Here however you miss the point completely. My point was that you cannot seperate the leader from the system propping him up, be it Hitler with Germany or be it Krushchev with the KPsSU. I was not talking about the merit or not so of any annexation. I was merely pointing out the flaw in logic of a different commentator using the supposed illegal actions of one man (Krushchev) as justification for everthing, and at the same time arguing that the soviet union has nothing to do with the actions of that one man.

Originally Posted by eisenherz

@ SergeMak, i normally respect your arguments, even if we are of different opinons. Here however you miss the point completely. My point was that you cannot seperate the leader from the system propping him up, be it Hitler with Germany or be it Krushchev with the KPsSU. I was not talking about the merit or not so of any annexation. I was merely pointing out the flaw in logic of a different commentator using the supposed illegal actions of one man (Krushchev) as justification for everthing, and at the same time arguing that the soviet union has nothing to do with the actions of that one man.

So, continuing your line of thought we come to a conclusion there are 3 objects we must take into account: a leader, a system and the people. So what you are suggesting is to equate all the three. Am I right?

Originally Posted by SergeMak

So, continuing your line of thought we come to a conclusion there are 3 objects we must take into account: a leader, a system and the people. So what you are suggesting is to equate all the three. Am I right?

'Equate' is maybe not the correct word, as they are not necessarily the 'same' or 'equal', but the 3 are inter-connected and do not exist in isolation.

Originally Posted by SergeMak

If you are talking about the annexation of GDR by FRG in 1989 you are right. Hitler has nothing to do with it.

I never saw in English texts translated abbreviations. It's usually DDR and BRD.

Originally Posted by 14Russian

Who would want to trade with somebody like you. You decide later, on 2nd thought, you don't like how the deal went and then you end up at the door with a gun demanding it back.

Sorry. I didn't know we were discussing the Russian Mistrals. Btw, how much did Ukraine pay for Crimea?

Originally Posted by eisenherz

c

glad you found a culprit that would absolve the sowjet union of accountability back then and give justification for annexation now...
so easy... just blame Nikita Khrushchev

you should have told that logic to the Germans - it was Adolf Hitler, not us. Can you see the problem with this line of thinking?

When President Obama issues an Executive Order, that's NOT the fault of the government or the people. Nobody can stop his Executive Orders (Decrees).
Anyway, when I look at Eastern Ukraine I see death and destruction. When I look at Crimea I see life and peace.
So yeah, I totally DO support any country (like Russia) that gives a region (like Crimea) life and peace.

Imo, you should READ the article that SergeMak posted. I was VERY HAPPY to find it.
Who actually annexed the Crimea?

And NO I don't see any problem with my line of thinking.

Originally Posted by UhOhXplode

And NO I don't see any problem with my line of thinking.

I did not expect you to ...

Originally Posted by UhOhXplode

Sorry. I didn't know we were discussing the Russian Mistrals. Btw, how much did Ukraine pay for Crimea?

You don't know what a trade is?!?