Thread: Latest from Ukraine

Originally Posted by 14Russian

Explain this, then?:

Russian mother of seven accused of treason over Ukraine

No troops are there, yet this Russian is getting arrested for ....'making things up?" That is treason?!? You will say anything.

She called to an embassy of foreign country and reported classified information (movement of troops, even within borders of Russia is considered classified information according to Russian law). So according to the law (moral considerations apart), it's definitely a treason.

She's already released under the recognisance not to leave.

How to sell prisoners of war. Part 1 (probably 1 of 4). English subtitles available.
Female voice allegedly belongs to Yelena Vasilyeva. A highly controversial figure, claimed to be a "Russian activist", even though she does not live in Russia. She studied in Russia, the US and Finland, a former member of several international non-profit organizations with political influence. Currently very popular in Ukrainian MSM, widely uses anti-Russian rhetorics, that sometimes sound crazy, like ""Zombie rays" that Russia sends through cell phones to "zombify" people". Founder of "Cargo 200" project.

The other party of the conversation is allegedly male person, named "Gena", possibly located in Russia. Voice of this party is unavailable (possibly because it might be a cell phone conversation interception)

They discuss on how to make money on their help of returning Ukrainian prisoners of war back to relatives. Figures vary between five to ten thousand American dollars per prisoner that relatives supposed to give up. It is unclear though how those money would be used. They also discuss possible monopolization of such "business".

Originally Posted by Basil77

She called to an embassy of foreign country and reported classified information (movement of troops, even within borders of Russia is considered classified information according to Russian law). So according to the law (moral considerations apart), it's definitely a treason.

Regardless, the point is Russia keeps claiming they are not involved in the Ukraine conflict and that there's no troops there. Yet, there's evidence always being revealed that this claim is a lie.

Mother of seven accused of treason released from jail amid outcry

It might be technically 'treason' but this excuse is bogus.

Second part of the Cargo 200

Well, there are also people from the other side of the fence: http://nbnews.com.ua/ru/news/140333/

«Возле одной из позиций Вооруженных сил Украины, где несут службу артиллерийские подразделения, была задержана молодая женщина, которая фотографировала позиции артиллеристов», – говорится в сообщении.

Уточняется, что женщина была передана правоохранительным органам. На данный момент они проверяют ее причастность к террористическим группировкам.

You see, she also was just wandering around the military and making some pictures. She wasn't even caught passing that information anywhere. (Perhaps, just to make a cool "selfie", who knows?) That is considered treason?!

Originally Posted by Basil77

Ukrainian army's Chief of Staff officially admitted : 'There is no Russian troops in Ukraine"

Unfortunately, the Chief of Staff had forgotten to send a memo to the Prime Minister, who is still under impression there are. Украина воюет на Донбассе с регулярной российской армией – Яценюк

"У нас есть сильные доказательства того, что Российская Федерация нарушила международный закон и российский президент дал приказ своим Вооруженным силам вторгнуться как в Крым, так и в восточную часть Украины. Мы не боремся против террористев, мы боремся с регулярной армией России", - сказал А.Яценюк на брифинге с госсекретарем США Джоном Керри в четверг в Киеве.

Cargo 200. Part 3 and 4

Originally Posted by hddscan

Cargo 200. Part 3 and 4

One of the comments:

" 2 minutes ago

Анатолий, поскольку это туфта полная, а ты далеко не так глуп, вопрос - какая твоя заинтересованность в этом сливе? ..."

the point is Russia keeps claiming they are not involved in the Ukraine conflict and that there's no troops there. Yet, there's evidence always being revealed that this claim is a lie

No, there is evidence that American and Polish mercenaries are involved like on this footage from Mariupol:



or on this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljWXC...yer_detailpage

or on this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=rUS7hId32GA

Of course. And the rebels have all this firepower out of thin air, too, right? Okay.

Russian-backed rebels taking over eastern Ukraine GIF - Business Insider

Originally Posted by 14Russian

Of course. And the rebels have all this firepower out of thin air, too, right? Okay.

Russian-backed rebels taking over eastern Ukraine GIF - Business Insider

This article is a blatant lie and propaganda from the beginning to the end, it's based on information provided by Ukraine's military, one of the sides of the conflict, and reflects their point of view. They depict the border line dated by mid-august and pose it as a line according to the Minsk ceasefire deal. In reality the line of contact between the sides on 14 September looked like this:

Do you want to play who has the most lies? Is that it? Sigh.

https://twitter.com/euromaidanpress/...17127544922112

Ukraine rebels start pullback under peace deal - Business Insider


The reality with Crimea:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWw15dIrhHQ

Girkin (Strelkov): ‘Will of People’ in Crimea Achieved at Gunpoint | Planet Putin

https://www.facebook.com/uatodaytv/p...al_comments=38

Forgive me if I don't believe your map is the current situation.

Originally Posted by 14Russian

Do you want to play who has the most lies? Is that it? Sigh.

https://twitter.com/euromaidanpress/...17127544922112

Ukraine rebels start pullback under peace deal - Business Insider

н
The reality with Crimea:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWw15dIrhHQ

Girkin (Strelkov): ‘Will of People’ in Crimea Achieved at Gunpoint | Planet Putin

https://www.facebook.com/uatodaytv/p...al_comments=38

Forgive me if I don't believe your map is the current situation.

I can only give you a peace of valuable advice: learn Russian and watch all these materials in the original. You'll be surprised how brazen the lie you are quoting is. (Deleted. L.)

Well, the above-mentioned links https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWw15dIrhHQ and Girkin (Strelkov): ‘Will of People’ in Crimea Achieved at Gunpoint | Planet Putin say: (I quote) "The only law enforcement unit that joined our ranks back then was Berkut."
That's a lie. In reality what he says is: "The only law enforcement unit that took the side of the people (the inhabitants of Crimea) back then was Berkut."
That's a brazen lie #1.
The brazen lie #2 is:
"We had absolutely no support from the people, not to mention the army."
He didn't say that. In reality he says that they didn't have any support from the government authorities. Government authorities are not all of the people.
So, I would highly recommend to check the translation in order not to look ridiculous. (Это не переход на личности, а добрый совет.)

Originally Posted by SergeMak

Well, the above-mentioned links https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWw15dIrhHQ and Girkin (Strelkov): ‘Will of People’ in Crimea Achieved at Gunpoint | Planet Putin say: (I quote) "The only law enforcement unit that joined our ranks back then was Berkut."
That's a lie. In reality what he says is: "The only law enforcement unit that took the side of the people (the inhabitants of Crimea) back then was Berkut."
That's a brazen lie #1.
The brazen lie #2 is:
"We had absolutely no support from the people, not to mention the army."
He didn't say that. In reality he says that they didn't have any support from the government authorities. Government authorities are not all of the people.
So, I would highly recommend to check the translation in order not to look ridiculous. (Это не переход на личности, а добрый совет.)

You're the liar. I read Russians who confirmed and agree with the premise. Your semantic BS is just pathetic.

Articles from Ukr and Rus sources:
Гиркин: Крымских депутатов силой сгоняли голосовать за отделение от Украины. Видео / Гордон

Гиркин: «Мы сгоняли крымских депутатов голосовать за отделение» | Новости Крыма

Moscow agent Strelkov admits Russian army behind Crimean referendum - read on - uatoday.tv

http://charter97.org/ru/news/2015/1/25/136775/

Written in Russian - confirm the same report. Anyway, no use arguing.

Another video. Read the comments.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aelw...-ts=1421914688

Even if some percentage of citizens were overjoyed and enthusiastic, so what. That is not what is asserted. They 'made sure' to force things and that's the point. The referendum was claimed to being fair is a farce. Look up 'credibility' in the dictionary.

I think you missed the point Strelkov was trying to convey. He said that the government was pro-Ukrainian and not the pro-people, so to speak. Nothing surprizing in that, eh? Prior to the referendum taking place, the government had to vote to make it legitimate. That is when the 'pro-people' militia had to virtually force the government to come and vote for the referendum. And the fact that the people were 'listened to' was due to the Russian military presence. So, the people were finally able to cast their vote for something they could not for 20 years. It is very important what was asked. If the referendum was to either to stay with Ukraine or to stay with Ukraine, the turn about would be somewhat 30% as usual.

So, what is so outrageous in what Strelkov had 'admitted'? The only fact he admitted was that the Crimean government was as anti-people as in the rest of Ukraine. And if the Ukrainian government would have dared to ask the very same question in the other Russian-speaking regions, the people's answer would most likely be the same. But, unfortunately, Ukrainian government backed up by the police and the army made sure the people would not be asked. Why are you so surprised?

Originally Posted by Crocodile

I think you missed the point Strelkov was trying to convey. He said that the government was pro-Ukrainian and not the pro-people, so to speak. Nothing surprizing in that, eh? Prior to the referendum taking place, the government had to vote to make it legitimate. That is when the 'pro-people' militia had to virtually force the government to come and vote for the referendum. And the fact that the people were 'listened to' was due to the Russian military presence. So, the people were finally able to cast their vote for something they could not for 20 years. It is very important what was asked. If the referendum was to either to stay with Ukraine or to stay with Ukraine, the turn about would be somewhat 30% as usual.

So, what is so outrageous in what Strelkov had 'admitted'? The only fact he admitted was that the Crimean government was as anti-people as in the rest of Ukraine. And if the Ukrainian government would have dared to ask the very same question in the other Russian-speaking regions, the people's answer would most likely be the same. But, unfortunately, Ukrainian government backed up by the police and the army made sure the people would not be asked. Why are you so surprised?

"His latest appearance was on the Neuromir.tv network ‘Political Ring’ talkshow debating another extreme nationalist, Nikolai Starikov, co-chair of the Great Fatherland Party. When Starikov claimed that all the security organs and government in Crimea supported the people there in breaking away from Ukraine and joining Russia, Girkin laughed a bit and said ‘Have you actually been to Crimea during the referendum? Well I have. I have been there since 21 February. What you are describing here is absolute nonsense. There were no policemen who supported our side at that time. The only law enforcement unit that joined our ranks back then was Berkut. The rest of the law enforcement agencies remained under control of Ukrainian Ministry of Internal Affairs, and kept carrying out their orders. Yes, sometimes they were sabotaging these orders, but all in all they were under Ukrainian control. I didn’t see any support from official government representatives in Simferopol. Our troops had to force the deputies into the Oblast Council hall so that these representatives would vote in favor of our initiatives. I know this because I was at the time commanding one such militant teams and I saw it all from the inside. We had absolutely no support from the people, not to mention the army. The Ukrainian army units remained loyal to Kyiv as they were. Furthermore, most of the army remained that way. The only thing that made what we have accomplished in Crimea possible was the presence of Russian army.’

You distort the facts. He conceded they forced opposition to vote for their initiatives. They used guns to get their own way, more or less. They got rid of any pro-Ukrainian media and only had pro-Kremlin media. They had media that fabricated stories and used disinfo. This was not a just and democratic referendum. I'm against the current Kiev government (I hope they vote in someone else and NOT any of the more known names and parties.). But, to be perfectly honest, the 'referendum' in Crimea was a farce and just like Girkin conceded 'he fired the first shot' previously, he's also saying that they forced the referendum to obtain their objective. Whether the previous government didn't want to vote or vote for them or not, the point is that they held people up at gun point to get their desired goal. Yet, they claimed everyone wanted to be part of Russia. Well, we'll see for how long as Russia's running out of funds.

Speaking about Crimea, Ukrainian goverment recently hired some German research institute to figure out current public opinion there and here is the result (note that the source is highly biased and anti-Russian):

One year later, most Crimeans prefer Russia - Chicago Tribune