Thread: Latest from Ukraine

The meaning is in the people and not in the words. Identical logic can be used either to mask evil deeds or to start a humanitarian quest. This time is 2015 and I only see humanitarian goals.
ON-TOPIC:
I seriously doubt that any news about the Donbas will be unbiased. But I agree with SergeMak - The Belarus media would need to be silent since they are mediating the crisis in Minsk and since they both do trade with Belarus.
Imo, the only real way to get unbiased news is to look only at the undeniable facts. There's lots of those facts out there. For example:

1. What was happening on New Year's day in Kiev?
They held a parade to honor a Nazi collaborator named Stepan Bandera.

2. What was happening on New Year's day in Lugansk?
They managed to have some New Year's lights and a huge tree in the square but there were serious rolling blackouts and the houses don't have heat.
A lot of presents for kids were included in the 10th Russian humanitarian aid convoy so that was really cool. But Donetsk and other cities, in the Donbas, are having similar shortages of power and heat.

3. While Russia has been working in Minsk to create a lasting peace, the US passed an anti-Russian bill to allow our President to send lethal aid to Kiev.
The message that sends is that the US supports war while Russia supports peace. For me, that's a seriously unacceptable massage for my country to be sending.

4. Khrushchev had no legal right to give Crimea to the Ukraine. Where was the Internationally recognized referendum? When did the Crimeans vote on annexation to the Ukraine? So the annexation of Crimea by the Ukraine was not legal and is not binding.
Btw, was there ever a referendum to annex Novorossiya to the the Ukraine? I mean, it was Russia that won that land from the Ottoman empire in the 18th century, right?

Anyway, I found a site called "Новороссия" that seems to support a revival. And what's really interesting is how I found it. The link to the site was included in a Washington Post article:

Putin's comment might be taken as it was portrayed – as an aside, or a little tidbit of information – if it weren't for the fact that Novorossiya has been brought up so often in recent days by pro-Russian activists, who have reportedly been chanting the word as they argued against staying with Kiev. Someone has even set up a Web site that appears devoted to bringing the historical region back.

The Washington Post article

The words in bold linked to this site:
appears devoted to bringing the historical region back

So yeah, you can even find news sources in other news sources.
С Новым 2015 годом! Любви, здоровья, успехов, счастья! - I totally do hope this year will be TONS better than last year for Russia and the Russian people.

Originally Posted by UhOhXplode

They held a parade to honor a Nazi collaborator named Stepan Bandera.

Richard Nixon / Bill Clinton: "Sometimes in order to fight one evil you should cooperate with an other evil".

My first question is why Stepan Bandera cooperated with Hitler? He was a мизантроп? He wanted people to burn in gas chambers? He was just insane?
What he wanted from that cooperation with that beast Hitler?

Originally Posted by Antonio1986

Richard Nixon / Bill Clinton: "Sometimes in order to fight one evil you should cooperate with an other evil".

My first question is why Stepan Bandera cooperated with Hitler? He was a мизантроп? He wanted people to burn in gas chambers? He was just insane?
What he wanted from that cooperation with that beast Hitler?

Was Bandera insane? Was Stalin insane? Was Chamberlain insane? Who knows. They all cooperated and Hitler fooled them all.
For some reason, Bandera thought Germany would help to establish Ukrainian state. Instead, shortly after invading the Soviet Union, in 1941, Hitler put him in prison and later in a concentration camp. So much for cooperation.

An important thing to know about Bandera -- he had nothing to do with "дивизия СС "Галичина". Those who associated themselves with him fought against Germans as well as against Soviets or Poles (after his imprisonment, I mean).

Originally Posted by E-learner

Was Bandera insane? Was Stalin insane? Was Chamberlain insane? Who knows. They all cooperated and Hitler fooled them all.
For some reason, Bandera thought Germany would help to establish Ukrainian state. Instead, shortly after invading the Soviet Union, in 1941, Hitler put him in prison and later in a concentration camp. So much for cooperation.

An important thing to know about Bandera -- he had nothing to do with "дивизия СС "Галичина". Those who associated themselves with him fought against Germans as well as against Soviets or Poles (after his imprisonment, I mean).

Looks like you are portraying him rather like a stray sheep and not a true cold blood murderer. But how about this passage;

What else separates the Banderas from every other genocidal perpetrator of the war is this: Even though the German SS had units dedicated to genocide, the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN) approached this mission with a zeal and barbarity that Hitler’s own units could not muster. (Deleted. L.).

Ukraine’s Neo-Nazis. Stepan Bandera and the Legacy of World War II | Global Research

He seems to be different from Hitler only in the scale of his misdeeds but not in its character. And why do some Ukrainians so desperately want to revive this "skeleton" from the "cupboard" right now? My guess it's mainly done in order to troll Russians even more assiduously

Originally Posted by diogen_

Looks like you are portraying him rather like a stray sheep and not a true cold blood murderer. But how about this passage;


Ukraine’s Neo-Nazis. Stepan Bandera and the Legacy of World War II | Global Research

He seems to be different from Hitler only in the scale of his misdeeds but not in its character. And why do some Ukrainians so desperately want to revive this "skeleton" from the "cupboard" right now? My guess it's mainly done in order to troll Russians even more assiduously

You're going to cite Global Research as your source?

There's a lot of ridiculous assertions in this thread and I can see why Ukrainians just abandoned it.

Originally Posted by diogen_

Looks like you are portraying him rather like a stray sheep and not a true cold blood murderer. But how about this passage;


Ukraine’s Neo-Nazis. Stepan Bandera and the Legacy of World War II | Global Research

He seems to be different from Hitler only in the scale of his misdeeds but not in its character. And why do some Ukrainians so desperately want to revive this "skeleton" from the "cupboard" right now? My guess it's mainly done in order to troll Russians even more assiduously

Did you see this in the article? :
"Under the militant leadership of Stepan Bandera in World War II, the ultra-nationalists organized the Ukrainian Waffen SS Galician".
That's enough to stop reading right there. It's not a credible source. Just a piece of Soviet/Russian style propaganda.

"The Banderas, or Banderites, are activists in the Ukrainian Ultra Nationalist movement that is now in control of the government in Ukraine."
I recognize the pen of Mr. Lavrov.
Ridiculous. You can not even begin to understand how ridiculous this is.

Now. I am not saying UPA did not commit any atrocities. There hardly exist an army that didn't. But it wasn't in the question I was answering.

About trolling -- yes, there is a bit of that.

Originally Posted by Antonio1986

Richard Nixon / Bill Clinton: "Sometimes in order to fight one evil you should cooperate with an other evil".

My first question is why Stepan Bandera cooperated with Hitler? He was a мизантроп? He wanted people to burn in gas chambers? He was just insane?
What he wanted from that cooperation with that beast Hitler?

Probably thought there wasn't any choice of an ally who would confront the SU. The USA didn't. No one else did. Of course, most of the sources nowadays are maintained by Russia, USA etc., soviet/communist sources so you will only get one side.

In Russia, certain cronies and clans turn against each other when interests no longer coincide. Is it possible that this happened then? I read that Bandera wanted a 'Greater Ukraine' and when Russia/Novorossiya decide to occupy territory, no one bats an eyelash. But, because these aren't neo-Soviet types, they are villains. It's a matter of perspective or point of view and those nationalists probably thought they wanted to secure their own territory. There were a lot of territorial disputes then and various nationalities/ethnicities all living in the same area.