Thread: G8 Summit and Russia's Prez

USSR:

Missiles in Cuba, ready to fire at US: 1962
Afghanistan invasion: 1979
Finland invasion: 1939
Czechoslovakia invasion: 1968*
Hungary invasion: 1956 (that year may be wrong)*
6 million Ukrainian kulaks dead, thanks to Stalin: 1924-1953
20 million Russians, Kazakhs, Latvians, etc.... killed, thanks to Stalin: 1924-1953
Vietnam: 1960s-70s*
Korea: 1958 (that may be wrong year, but you were there nonetheless)*
Missiles/weapons sold to Iran: 2003-ish-2006
Missiles/weapons sold to Lebanon: 2006
Georgia (the country, not state): 2006

*=IF NO COUNTRY HAS THE RIGHT TO CHANGE THE POLITICS OF OTHERS, WHAT WERE YOU DOING HERE?!

Originally Posted by RusskiSlav

USSR:
Missiles in Cuba, ready to fire at US: 1962

ha ha There were missiles on both sides "ready to fire" for 40 years, so what?

Originally Posted by RusskiSlav

6 million Ukrainian kulaks dead, thanks to Stalin: 1924-1953
20 million Russians, Kazakhs, Latvians, etc.... killed, thanks to Stalin: 1924-1953

Ok, that's our inner business. I was talking about intrusion to other countries affairs.

Afghanistan invasion: 1979
Finland invasion: 1939
Czechoslovakia invasion: 1968*
Hungary invasion: 1956 (that year may be wrong)*
Vietnam: 1960s-70s*
Korea: 1958 (that may be wrong year, but you were there nonetheless)*

That's true, though there were NO soviet regular troops in Vietnam and Korea and we didn't drop napalm bombs on villages.
Btw in Czechoslovakia there were not only soviet army, but also 4 other armies, including polish. So is Poland now "evil empire"?

Our missiles were in Turkey to counter yours in Cuba (or, the Caribbean) in case you fired yours. We didn't jut put em there because we wanted to.

And I already said I didn't think the US was right to bomb My Lai, remember?

Well Poland was communist, because it was a Soviet satellite, and their communists aren't any better than yours. I wouldn't call it an "evil empire", however, because communism was forced upon them, they didn't choose it.

P.S. I'm sure you're going to have something to say, but don't expect a reply for awhile because I've gotta go somewhere and won't be back for a little bit.

Originally Posted by RusskiSlav

P.S. I'm sure you're going to have something to say, but don't expect a reply for awhile because I've gotta go somewhere and won't be back for a little bit.

Ok, I'm not professor of american history though I'm sure USA wasn't more peacefull than USSR. Actually it expanded the same way as Soviet Union - by annexing other countries territories (sure you know about American-Mexican wars).

So I'll do some Google research on USA military intrusions (yeah, I'm single-minded ) and post the results later. You're welcomed to do the same on USSR.

Cuban missiles vs. Turkey missiles. Do you guys even know your history or has it been rewritten since I last learned it?

The USSR was constructing missile sites in Cuba, but there were never any missiles. That was the outcome of the whole Cuban missile crisis. The Soviets were transporting the missiles to Cuba and America blockaded them. There were never any missiles ready to launch on Cuba itself. Ever.

The deal struck by USA and USSR was that no Cuban missiles would equal to no Turkish missiles. It therefore follows that there were no missiles in Turkey.

Capiche?

Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie

Do you guys even know your history or has it been rewritten since I last learned it?
.......
Capiche?

Capiche.
Your sober view of things spoils our leading-to-nowhere argumant.

And why couldn't you assemble them in your own country? A little suspicious they had to be shipped to a location 90 MILES AWAY FROM THE US to be assembled...


And BTW gRomoZeka, about the Yugoslavia bombings, I told you I didn't support them earlier, and I agree they never should've happened.

Originally Posted by RusskiSlav

And why couldn't you assemble them in your own country? A little suspicious they had to be shipped to a location 90 MILES AWAY FROM THE US...

Because we were to far for missiles to hit target, while your missiles were close enough.

Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

Because we were to far for missiles to hit target, while your missiles were close enough.

Your target being the US. So you were planning to fire them then...hear that, kalinka?

Originally Posted by RusskiSlav

Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

Because we were to far for missiles to hit target, while your missiles were close enough.

Your target being the US. So you were planning to fire them then...hear that, kalinka?

No, we wanted to scare you, and we couldn't achieve the desireable effect because you were too far.

Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie

Cuban missiles vs. Turkey missiles. Do you guys even know your history or has it been rewritten since I last learned it?

The USSR was constructing missile sites in Cuba, but there were never any missiles. That was the outcome of the whole Cuban missile crisis. The Soviets were transporting the missiles to Cuba and America blockaded them. There were never any missiles ready to launch on Cuba itself. Ever.

The deal struck by USA and USSR was that no Cuban missiles would equal to no Turkish missiles. It therefore follows that there were no missiles in Turkey.

Capiche?

Are you sure about that?
A U-2 flight in late August photographed a new series of SAM (surface-to-air missile) sites being constructed, but on September 4, 1962 Kennedy told Congress that there were no offensive missiles in Cuba. On the night of September 8, the first consignment of SS-4 MRBMs was unloaded in Havana, and a second shipload arrived on September 16. The Soviets were building nine sites — six for SS-4s and three for SS-5s with a range of 4,000 km (2,400 statute miles). The planned arsenal was forty launchers, an increase in Soviet first strike capacity of 70%. This matter was readily noticed by the Cuban population, and perhaps as many as a thousand reports of such reached Miami, and were evaluated and then considered spurious by U.S. intelligence [1].

In early 1992 it was confirmed that key Soviet forces in Cuba had, by the time the crisis broke, received tactical nuclear warheads for their artillery rockets, and IL-28 bombers [5], though General Anatoly Gribkov, part of the Soviet staff responsible for the operation, stated that the local Soviet commander, General Issa Pliyev, had predelegated authority to use them if the U.S. had mounted a full-scale invasion of Cuba. Gribkov misspoke: the Kremlin's authorization remained unsigned and undelivered. (Other accounts show that Pliyev was given permission to use tactical nuclear warheads but only in the most extreme case of an American invasion during which contact with Moscow is lost. However when American forces seemed to be readying for an attack, (after the U-2 photos, but before Kennedy's television address), Khrushchev rescinded his earlier permission for Pliyev to use the tactical nuclear weapons, even under the most extreme conditions. Whether because of the clear American nuclear dominance, or simply out of benevolence, Khrushchev wanted to avoid nuclear war at all costs.)

In 1961, the U.S. started deploying 15 Jupiter IRBM (intermediate-range ballistic missiles) nuclear missiles near İzmir, Turkey, which directly threatened cities in the western sections of the Soviet Union. These missiles were regarded by President Kennedy as being of questionable strategic value; an SSBN (ballistic submarine) was capable of providing the same cover with both stealth and superior firepower.
From the wikipedia article. It would seem that the nukes were in play in both countries...unless, this is one of those times when wikipedia has failed us. There were NOT the missiles themselves, as you noted, but the launchers were being constructed and the intent was clear enough. The missiles WERE in Turkey though.

Bah, facts are always a nuisance. The history DID change, damn that wiki! So, after reading the article a little more nuance is provided.

"They [US Intelligence] were unaware that 12 kiloton-range nuclear warheads had already been delivered to the island and mounted on FROG-3 "Luna" short-range artillery rockets, which could be launched on the authority of the Soviet commander on the island, General Pliyev [4], in the event of an invasion."

and

"Kennedy responded by publicly accepting the first deal and sending Robert F. Kennedy to the Soviet embassy to privately accept the second that the fifteen Jupiter missiles near İzmir, Turkey would be removed six months later. "

But it is essentially what I said

Originally Posted by RusskiSlav

USSR:

Missiles in Cuba, ready to fire at US: 1962
Afghanistan invasion: 1979
Finland invasion: 1939
Czechoslovakia invasion: 1968*
Hungary invasion: 1956 (that year may be wrong)*
6 million Ukrainian kulaks dead, thanks to Stalin: 1924-1953
20 million Russians, Kazakhs, Latvians, etc.... killed, thanks to Stalin: 1924-1953
Vietnam: 1960s-70s*
Korea: 1958 (that may be wrong year, but you were there nonetheless)*
Missiles/weapons sold to Iran: 2003-ish-2006
Missiles/weapons sold to Lebanon: 2006

Oh yeah, I might add the Berlin Wall and the coercion of communism on the people of East Germany and the low living standards endured by those people. (I know of someone whose friend's sister was from East Germany and she had to wait several years before getting the car she ordered, and when she did get it, it looked like crap.) And the KGB agents stationed at the wall shot anyone who attempted to get into West Berlin. It was the US who carried out the Berlin Airlift and dropped food and supplies to the starving East Berliners. We're not all that evil, eh?

Originally Posted by RusskiSlav

Oh yeah, I might add the Berlin Wall and the coercion of communism on the people of East Germany and the low living standards endured by those people. (I know of someone whose friend's sister was from East Germany and she had to wait several years before getting the car she ordered, and when she did get it, it looked like cr@p.) And the KGB agents stationed at the wall shot anyone who attempted to get into West Berlin. It was the US who carried out the Berlin Airlift and dropped food and supplies to the starving East Berliners. We're not all that evil, eh?

No, that wasn't, taking into consideration 30 mln soviet citizens killed in WW2.
Starving? When was that?
Anyway it was very kind of you. Did you also drop supplies to Hiroshima and Nagasaki after dropping nuclear bomb on them?

You guys made a non-agression pact with Hitler, and if he hadn't violated it and invaded the USSR, who knows? You may have kept it....

And yes, the Germans did wrongly kill millions of Soviet citizens but that doesn't mean you need to punish German citizens who had nothing to do with it.

And we did donate money to Japan and help them rebuild, and today they're one of our best friends.

Originally Posted by RusskiSlav

And yes, the Germans did wrongly kill millions of Soviet citizens but that doesn't mean you need to punish German citizens who had nothing to do with it.

Well , we were not punishing them in the strict sense of word. Do you know that Eastern Germans lived not worse but even better than people in Russia, so Russians themselves believed they acted fair and even generous.

Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

Do you know that Eastern Germans lived not worse but even better than people in Russia, so Russians themselves believed they acted fair and even generous.

Ahh...Soviet communism fails once again to achieve happiness...

Originally Posted by RusskiSlav

Ahh...communism fails once again to achieve happiness...

Ahh... Somebody's told you already that there were no communism in USSR, that was socialism.

And I see you ignored my bait about nuclear bomb. Nothing to say?

I said we helped Japan rebuild...

Japan was still going after us, not wanting to end the war. We had to take em out in one fell swoop or they'd do the same to us by continuous warfare in the Pacific.