Thread: Cold War between US and Russia (again)?

Originally Posted by fortheether

How Putin's Op-Ed Got Watered Down | Opinion | The Moscow Times

Scott

Thank you for that link! Fascinating.

I'm censored again? For 'offensive' comments? Like I said, these stupid letters are just distractions for these two countries' governments. Putin has his in the NYT which still has a wide publication and reaches many homes and also translated to English. McCain chooses 'Pravda' online which hardly anyone in Russia reads.

Do anti-Putin 'letters' submitted in Russian get in the major newspapers in Russia? I know about the columnists and reporters who get shot and killed...

"The very fact of publication proves that everything McCain wrote is a lie," Gorshenin told Izvestia. "If the entire press were controlled from the Kremlin, how could a piece like that appear on a website everyone calls pro-Kremlin?"
The above shows how cunning, shady and unethical these media people are. It's a manipulative lie and I am no fan of McCain at all! The Kremlin doesn't give a **** about web/internet columns that hardly any Russians will look for. Anyway...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24159246

Originally Posted by DrBaldhead

I've noticed that too. Yet, I thought it was reasonable to remove the sentence about Boston to avoid touching the fresh wound and not upset American readers.

Was the real reason "avoid touching fresh wound"?
Or maybe "Don't remind Americans that the NSA is spying on all U.S. citizens BUT failed to spy on the terrorists"?

I have read the article (McCain's), although I don't read 'Pravda' at all. Why 'Pravda'? I guess, firstly, it's a famous brand. Secondly, maybe it was a dream of all McCain's life to publish an article in 'Pravda'? Now it's possible.
Well, there is such a thing like 'copy/paste'. This McCain's text was relayed all over the Russian part of internet, because it's amusing, despite the fact that it's really a lie. McCain says Russian people have to choose 'right way' (in his opinion). But they already did it once. And what happened? The US just robbed Russia, that's all (also we got stupid TV, made according to an American pattern or even worse,. Now Americans want to play the same trick again. Because their debts are enormous.

Anyway, I'm glad this new 'cold war' has started. It's a chance for the world to liquidate the monster. At least, now information is free, so anyone can find the true facts. Butthurt is inevitable, although American media protects the US citizens as it can.

Originally Posted by Paul G.

I have read the article (McCain's), although I don't read 'Pravda' at all. Why 'Pravda'? I guess, firstly, it's a famous brand. Secondly, maybe it was a dream of all McCain's life to publish an article in 'Pravda'? Now it's possible.
Well, there is such a thing like 'copy/paste'. This McCain's text was relayed all over the Russian part of internet, because it's amusing, despite the fact that it's really a lie. McCain says Russian people have to choose 'right way' (in his opinion). But they already did it once. And what happened? The US just robbed Russia, that's all (also we got stupid TV, made according to an American pattern or even worse,. Now Americans want to play the same trick again. Because their debts are enormous.

Anyway, I'm glad this new 'cold war' has started. It's a chance for the world to liquidate the monster. At least, now information is free, so anyone can find the true facts. Butthurt is inevitable, although American media protects the US citizens as it can.

Yes, you read the article. Like everyone else here. LOL! So, I can provide parts of the letter that have no accuracy or truth whatsoever still?:

"I believe you deserve the opportunity to improve your lives in an economy that is built to last and benefits the many, not just the powerful few.

A Russian citizen could not publish a testament like the one I just offered.

They punish dissent and imprison opponents. They rig your elections. They control your media. They harass, threaten, and banish organizations that defend your right to self-governance. To perpetuate their power they foster rampant corruption in your courts and your economy and terrorize and even assassinate journalists who try to expose their corruption.

President Putin claims his purpose is to restore Russia to greatness at home and among the nations of the world. But by what measure has he restored your greatness? He has given you an economy that is based almost entirely on a few natural resources that will rise and fall with those commodities. Its riches will not last.

He has given you a political system that is sustained by corruption and repression and isn't strong enough to tolerate dissent.

So he rules by using those weaknesses, by corruption, repression and violence. He rules for himself, not you."

Yes, Putin and his cronies are angels, of course. McCain is a war monger surely and his article is helping Putin big time as Russians are insulted and/or amused at this letter and the audacity of this uninformed American loon who is apt to support military aggression by the U.S. So, none of the letter has any relevance and coincidentally, Putin, who the USA is mad at has a wonderful article in a well known publication in the USA. This is all by design, certainly. McCain chooses an obscure (by many) media source, already with a questionable or deteriorating reputation, with a letter that will be forgotten about easily. I wonder if any more American hypocrites will try to get published in any other Russian media sources that few have heard of.

But, I feel like the only objective poster so maybe that is why half my posts (any politically oriented) get moderated.

I read the author of this column weekly. She points out lots of language goodies. Highly recommended!

Scott

Originally Posted by fortheether

How Putin's Op-Ed Got Watered Down | Opinion | The Moscow Times

Scott

Originally Posted by Paul G.

I have read the article (McCain's), although I don't read 'Pravda' at all. Why 'Pravda'? I guess, firstly, it's a famous brand. Secondly, maybe it was a dream of all McCain's life to publish an article in 'Pravda'? Now it's possible.
Well, there is such a thing like 'copy/paste'. This McCain's text was relayed all over the Russian part of internet, because it's amusing, despite the fact that it's really a lie. McCain says Russian people have to choose 'right way' (in his opinion). But they already did it once. And what happened? The US just robbed Russia, that's all (also we got stupid TV, made according to an American pattern or even worse,. Now Americans want to play the same trick again. Because their debts are enormous.

Anyway, I'm glad this new 'cold war' has started. It's a chance for the world to liquidate the monster. At least, now information is free, so anyone can find the true facts. Butthurt is inevitable, although American media protects the US citizens as it can.

Yeah, the article was funny but kinda scary too. I mean, if McCain is really that stupid then what are the other politicians really like?
But yeah, I'm wondering why McCain published the article in Pravda.ru now. I don't usually read that paper since I can find almost anything in Российская газета, but when I heard about that op-ed I just had to check it out. I didn't know it had a low circulation till I read about it in this thread and other news articles.

Well, if there's gonna be a cold war then I'm not enlisting. I know there's a lot of seriously messed up stuff right now (like the NSA and invading other countries without a legitimate reason) but i'm not gonna add to it by hating on people I don't even know. I don't mind fighting with people if there's a reason, but cause "somebody said I should" is Not a good reason.
Good reason: Somebody knocked me off my skateboard.
Bad reason: Because they aren't just like me.
I think our politicians are nutjobs! They are always doing serious stuff that nobody wants them to do. And they almost nuked North Carolina!
BBC News - How US bomber nearly nuked North Carolina in 1961

That's funny how American people on this thread blame the Congress and politicians for things like another Cold War, etc., while the Russians here tend to blame America for all the sh*t that's going on; I think that says a lot about the level of brainwashing on each side.

Originally Posted by Eric C.

That's funny how American people on this thread blame the Congress and politicians for things like another Cold War, etc., while the Russians here tend to blame America for all the sh*t that's going on; I think that says a lot about the level of brainwashing on each side.

At least you admit there is brainwashing on both sides. A lot of Americans don't believe they are brainwashed at all.

I think maybe 1/2 of the U.S. is brainwashed and the other 1/2 isn't. To get brainwashed people have to watch TV and read books and newspapers that are all basicaly from the same source.
But the internet changes that up a lot cause the sources are from the whole planet. And school and immigration helps too cause you can see how different other people are and a lot of the cool ideas they have.
We don't even watch TV here. Everything we watch is on DVD's or online. And the only way to really get what's happening in the world is to look at different sources then decide what adds up. When I hear about something interesting then I check it out in the U.S. news, Российская газета, Al Jazeera, Le Monde, and other news sources.
If fewer people get brainwashed then maybe we can get people in Congress that aren't brainwashed. Maybe even have a law about NOT letting Altzheimers victims (like McCain) run the country.

If as many as 1/2 of the population are not brainwashed, I would be very pleased (and surprised). Unfortunately I think most people are fairly brainwashed. Not just in the US, but everywhere really. Some countries have it worse than others. America has it pretty bad I would say. And a big reason for that is apathy. They are comfortable just trusting the mainstream media, CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, etc. They are not trusting or comfortable with news sites like Al Jazeera, RT, BBC, Le Monde, etc because those sources are "not American." Most people are extremely provincial and they get their information from very limited sources.

I should add, I think there is a spectrum of brainwashing going on. Some are so far into not being brainwashed that they go over the edge into conspiracy theories and so on. The other extreme is, of course, the guy who watches FOX "news" 24/7 and thinks everything else is "librul propaganda." No one can ever know all the truth about everything, of course.

Cold War between US and Russia

Deb who do you mean by 'us'? You and your neighbor?
Tell me the truth, should it be "the US"?
Please!

Originally Posted by Medved

Deb who do you mean by 'us'? You and your neighbor?
Tell me the truth, should it be "the US"?
Please!

Sorry, Medved... so many years of working as a journalist have changed the way I write. Technically, maybe I should have used a "the" and said "the US" but in news writing we often say "US" without "the" and it became a habit for me. It is still acceptable grammar, by the way.

Examples of some current news headlines which do not use "the" when referring to the US:

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/23...ecruited-in-us
"NY Rep. King: Al-Shabab recruited in US"

http://www.democracynow.org/2013/9/16/headlines
"US, Russia Reach Deal to Destroy Syria’s Chemical Weapons"

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...98N0OJ20130924
"At UN, Brazil's Rousseff blasts US spying as breach of law"

http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/24/world/...day/?hpt=po_c2
"US and Iranian presidents share U.N. spotlight"

Thanks Deb! But I was just kidding .
I think it's called newspaper language.
Just thought the way "the US" looked in this phrase was like personally you plus someone else decided to start another cold war or something like that.

Originally Posted by Deborski

If as many as 1/2 of the population are not brainwashed, I would be very pleased (and surprised). Unfortunately I think most people are fairly brainwashed. Not just in the US, but everywhere really. Some countries have it worse than others. America has it pretty bad I would say. And a big reason for that is apathy. They are comfortable just trusting the mainstream media, CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, etc. They are not trusting or comfortable with news sites like Al Jazeera, RT, BBC, Le Monde, etc because those sources are "not American." Most people are extremely provincial and they get their information from very limited sources.

I should add, I think there is a spectrum of brainwashing going on. Some are so far into not being brainwashed that they go over the edge into conspiracy theories and so on. The other extreme is, of course, the guy who watches FOX "news" 24/7 and thinks everything else is "librul propaganda." No one can ever know all the truth about everything, of course.

Yeah, I saw a thread last night from a girl that thinks the Navy base shooting was a conspiracy. Yeah, like nobody would ever shoot anyone except for a conspiracy, right? LOL! I mean, if anyone had real proof that something happened (like Snowden) then yeah, I believe it. But conspiracy theories are mostly just really lame so i never waste time on stuff like that.
But i will waste time wondering why so many people have so many misconceptions about Russia. I mean, there's so many awesome places in the world so I don't get why anyone wants a cold war. It just locks out about half of the European continent and no way I'm gonna miss out on all the cool stuff like Lake Baikal, the Caucasus mountains, Amur oblast and the new Cosmodrome, and all that awesome snow! People that want a cold war just really needa get a life!

Cold War between US and Russia (again)?

По-моему, прохладные отношения между странами - это норма. Так было при царе-косаре (очень давно), при большевиках (недавно), так есть сейчас. Помните телемосты между СССР и США с Познером и Донахью? На первый телемост наши участники пришли с хлебом-солью. Но американские домохозяйки быстро поставили их на место и началась словесная драка. С тех пор ничего не изменилось. Общественное мнение - вещь очень инертная.

Originally Posted by Eric C.

All I can say is, the most relaxed period in U.S. - Russia relations was during the 1990s. Tensions began to rise back starting from the 2000s...

Мы тогда вели политику, которая противоречила нашим интересам. Отдали большую территорию в Тихом Океане, ушли из Европы без всяких условий. В трезвом уме так политику не делают.

Originally Posted by shnuddy

I understand what it means to have trust in God. But what is that supposed to mean "to have trust in Russia"? I think that media is using equivocating terms which simply mislead people.

Да, но чтобы начать войну против кого-то, нужно именно это поверхностное негативное мнение обывателя, а не эксперта. Так что данное исследование имеет большое практическое значение.

Originally Posted by UhOhXplode

Yeah, I saw a thread last night from a girl that thinks the Navy base shooting was a conspiracy. Yeah, like nobody would ever shoot anyone except for a conspiracy, right? LOL! I mean, if anyone had real proof that something happened (like Snowden) then yeah, I believe it. But conspiracy theories are mostly just really lame so i never waste time on stuff like that.
But i will waste time wondering why so many people have so many misconceptions about Russia. I mean, there's so many awesome places in the world so I don't get why anyone wants a cold war. It just locks out about half of the European continent and no way I'm gonna miss out on all the cool stuff like Lake Baikal, the Caucasus mountains, Amur oblast and the new Cosmodrome, and all that awesome snow! People that want a cold war just really needa get a life!

I think that some of the propaganda is intentional. But some of it is just "playing to the crowd." They play up the stereotypes because it sells, plain and simple. They know that if there is anything Americans hate more than America, it's Russia. And then, there are a lot of people working in media who were raised on these stereotypes and have never questioned them, so they just perpetuate them endlessly.

How many times do we see articles about Putin where he is described as "a former KGB agent"? And how often is a similar qualifier used to describe George W. Bush, who was CIA? It's very unbalanced.

Originally Posted by Deborski

Originally Posted by Eric C. That's funny how American people on this thread blame the Congress and politicians for things like another Cold War, etc., while the Russians here tend to blame America for all the sh*t that's going on; I think that says a lot about the level of brainwashing on each side.

At least you admit there is brainwashing on both sides. A lot of Americans don't believe they are brainwashed at all.

At the same time -- *cough* -- there are some people who seem to believe that Americans are complete suckers and blindly swallow all the jingoistic Red Dawn propaganda that the government dishes out, and yet... Russians and other non-Americans are sharp-eyed, enlightened skeptics who are much too smart to believe the propaganda from their own governments!

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

At the same time -- *cough* -- there are some people who seem to believe that Americans are complete suckers and blindly swallow all the jingoistic Red Dawn propaganda that the government dishes out, and yet... Russians and other non-Americans are sharp-eyed, enlightened skeptics who are much too smart to believe the propaganda from their own governments!

I hate to say it, but yeah, I do believe that the majority of people are suckers. Not just Americans either. It's just that Americans - by and large - do not seem to realize that they have been propagandized! And not just by the government, but by the media and corporate lobbyists.

As for Red Dawn, the government didn't produce that film. It was produced in Hollywood, where the majority of movies having to do with Russia tend to portray Russians in one of three ways:

1. Evil villains (A Good Day to Die Hard, Red Dawn, Indiana Jones and the Crystal Skull)
2. Cannon fodder, oppressed (The Hunt for Red October, Enemy at the Gates)
3. Comedy relief (Armageddon)

I'm not trying to be hyperbolic here. I am trying to be honest. There is much I love about my country, and much which frustrates me too. I will not white wash it for the sake of false patriotism. My belief is that dissent is the highest form of patriotism. If we do not speak openly about the problems, how can they ever change?

[British philosopher Roger] Scruton uses the term "oikophobia" as the antithesis of xenophobia.^[11] In his book, Roger Scruton: Philosopher on Dover Beach, Mark Dooley describes oikophobia as centered within the Western academic establishment on "both the common culture of the West, and the old educational curriculum that sought to transmit its humane values." This disposition has grown out of, for example, the writings of Jacques Derrida and of Michel Foucault's "assault on 'bourgeois' society result[ing] in an 'anti-culture' that took direct aim at holy and sacred things, condemning and repudiating them as oppressive and power-ridden."^[12]

Derrida is a classic oikophobe in so far as he repudiates the longing for home that the Western theological, legal, and literary traditions satisfy. . . . Derrida's deconstruction seeks to block the path to this 'core experience' of membership, preferring instead a rootless existence founded 'upon nothing.'^[13]

An extreme aversion to the sacred and the thwarting of the connection of the sacred to the culture of the West is described as the underlying motif of oikophobia; and not the substitution of Judeo-Christianity by another coherent system of belief. The paradox of the oikophobe seems to be that any opposition directed at the theological and cultural tradition of the West is to be encouraged even if it is "significantly more parochial, exclusivist, patriarchal, and ethnocentric."^[14] Scruton described "a chronic form of oikophobia [which] has spread through the American universities, in the guise of political correctness."

I absolutely do NOT think that all self-criticism of America (or the West) by Americans (or Westerners) is "oikophobic" -- nor do I mean to accuse anyone on this thread of "oikophobia." Vigorous criticism of oneself or "one's own" can be healthy. But I think it's worth remembering that xenophobia -- which is an irrational degree of contempt for the strange and foreign -- sometimes does have an exact opposite, namely an irrational contempt for the people next door.

And I agree with the famous writer "Anne Onymous", who famously said that "A hatred of the bourgeoisie is totally bourgeois."