Thread: About Cold War and more

Originally Posted by rockzmom

[B]
It is interesting that when I was in elementary school they used to have the emergency sirens go off I think once a month to test them. They had it in the school yard. Now they don't do that any more. Does anyone else remember those or am I the only person old enough?

It was the same in USSR except the sirens have been going off for the whole city not just school

My daughter's teacher showed them this video!!

Duck And Cover (1951) Bert The Turtle Civil Defense Film

rockzmom, I believe, that it was my individual perception, not much related to my location. My city is Omsk, and I was growing sure, that nothing bad could happen ever, because we are so distant and earthquakes are not possible. Then I learned, that bombs can be delivered in half-hour. I got nervous since then
We had many military industries in the USSR times, and big refinery. Military works all crippled after USSR's demise, but refinery was captured by Abramovich and it is still profitable and interesting for Pentagon. Look please (there is come text in English at the end):
ﾑﾘﾀ ??? ?蒟?? ??韃 ? ﾎ?

Originally Posted by rockzmom

BappaBa, thank you so much for posting those graphics. While I can't read them, I believe I get the basic understanding of them. Do you by any chance have a date from when they are from?

I believe they are from early 80's, because of the Space Shuttle.

Originally Posted by BappaBa

I believe they are from early 80's, because of the Space Shuttle.

Thanks. I forwarded the second one to her teacher and I just got a text from my daughter that he is showing it to them in class right now!! You see how much you impact the lives of American school children??!!

About the Space Shuttle, I was talking with my dad about that one. Is the picture suggesting that you could launch a weapon from the Space Shuttle? If so, that is something that neither of us thought about before.

Originally Posted by rockzmom

About the Space Shuttle, I was talking with my dad about that one. Is the picture suggesting that you could launch a weapon from the Space Shuttle? If so, that is something that neither of us thought about before.

The space shuttles were one of the key components of the SDI. It was estimated that the cost to deploy the nuclear weapon onto space and maintaining it there would be reduced by the space shuttles.

Originally Posted by rockzmom

Thanks. I forwarded the second one to her teacher and I just got a text from my daughter that he is showing it to them in class right now!! You see how much you impact the lives of American school children??!!

Let us know how it went

Originally Posted by Crocodile

The space shuttles were one of the key components of the SDI. It was estimated that the cost to deploy the nuclear weapon onto space and maintaining it there would be reduced by the space shuttles.

Say what? That little tidbit of information certain went by me. But then again, most of politics did when I was growing up. Remember, Star Wars was a movie to me... one I actually saw in a movie theater, back in 1977.

Well, it went both sides. Militarisation of space - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The Soviet Union was also researching innovative ways of gaining space supremacy. Two of their most notable efforts were the Fractional Orbital Bombardment System (FOBS) and Polyus orbital weapons system."

Originally Posted by Crocodile

Well, it went both sides. Militarisation of space - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The Soviet Union was also researching innovative ways of gaining space supremacy. Two of their most notable efforts were the Fractional Orbital Bombardment System (FOBS) and Polyus orbital weapons system."

Shut the front door!

"orbital nuclear explosion were researched with varying levels of success."

The moon... for real?

"In the late 1950s United States Air Force considered dropping an atomic bomb on the Moon to display U.S. superiority to the Soviet Union and the rest of the world (Project A119). "

Oh my, I love how this is worded. I makes it sound as if the SU is now a pile of ashes. Like the entire country was Lot's wife and blinked and turned into a into a column of salt or something.

In 1991 the Soviet Union disintegrated.

Originally Posted by rockzmom

Shut the front door!
"orbital nuclear explosion were researched with varying levels of success."

That's right. I think that was part of the project Excalibur Project Excalibur - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The main idea was to detonate a nuclear bomb on the orbit and let it power a series of x-ray lasers in various directions to destroy the ballistic missiles or splitting nuclear warheads.

Originally Posted by BappaBa

грубо говоря, наши учили ненавидеть американскую угнетающую верхушку, а американцы учили ненавидеть вообще русских.

Well, how does that old song go again? Oh, yeah:

"Союз нерушимый республик свободных.
Сплотила навеки Великая Русь"

(I.e., While the угнетающая верхушка [oppressive elite leadership] of the Soviet Union was -- from the US point of view -- the major threat, it was them goddamn rooskies who built the USSR in the first place, as they brag about in their own anthem!)

Originally Posted by Doomer

I've got couple army jokes for you
Here is one
Почему при ядерном взрыве нужно класть автомат под себя?
Чтобы капли расплавленного металла не испортили форму
Here is another one
Почему при ядерном взрыве нужно ложиться ногами в сторону взрыва?
Чтобы видеть куда полетят части твоего тела

Q: "Why should you put your machine-gun UNDER you in the event of a nuclear explosion?"
A: "So that the drops of molten metal don't ruin your uniform."

Q: "Why should you lie down with your feet in the direction of the explosion* in the event of a nuclear blast?"
A: "So that you can see where the pieces of your body fly to."

*PS: Actually, I'm not 100% sure whether ногами в сторону взрыва is supposed to mean "with your feet towards the source of the explosion at Ground Zero" or "with your feet pointed in the direction that the blast-wave is traveling, away from the source at Ground Zero." Obviously, these are the opposite of each other.

Originally Posted by rockzmom

Document E:

Source: U.S. News and World Report, December 1957

My parents are retired out in Arizona, and my dad works as a volunteer tour guide at the Titan II Missile Museum near Tucson. (The only Titan II silo still in existence -- though the missile now has no warheads, rocket fuel, or engines, of course! -- since the other 53 sites were dynamited after being decommissioned in the late '80s.)

Anyway, the Titan II missiles and the underground silos that housed them were both designed to deal with that "35 minute" problem described in the graphic. For instance, the missiles used a special fuel mixture that did not have to be stored in huge refrigeration units (like liquid oxygen) and pumped into the rocket's fuel tanks at the last minute -- so the missiles were completely fueled at all times, and could launch in just under 1 minute.

And the silos were massively engineered and theoretically capable of surviving a "nearby" detonation by a Soviet first strike -- not only were there steel doors and concrete walls more than a meter thick, but absolutely everything inside the silo was mounted on gigantic shock-absorption springs to protect electronic equipment from shockwaves. (Thus, even if a multi-megaton Soviet missile had destroyed the nearby city of Tucson, the silo that's now the Museum should have been able -- at least in theory -- to launch a retaliatory strike.)

Thus, the Titan II program was an attempt to preserve the US Govt's official "no first strike" policy, even in an age where Soviet missiles could reach the US in about half an hour. (Note that the magazine article posted by rockzmom is from 1957, and the Titan II silos were completed and activated by around 1963.)

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

*PS: Actually, I'm not 100% sure whether ногами в сторону взрыва is supposed to mean "with your feet towards the source of the explosion at Ground Zero" or "with your feet pointed in the direction that the blast-wave is traveling, away from the source at Ground Zero." Obviously, these are the opposite of each other.

The first one

Those jokes actually based on real things
Because you are supposed to put your AK under you
And you are supposed to drop and lie on the ground with your feet toward the explosion if you see the flash

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

Thus, the Titan II program was an attempt to preserve the US Govt's official "no first strike" policy, even in an age where Soviet missiles could reach the US in about half an hour.

Every nuclear country claims the same thing

But the actual idea is an ability to respond on nuclear bombing and that' basically the main deterrent force

I remember from that era, having a huge fight with my best friend about how many times over the whole world could be destroyed by the existing nuclear arsenal. It was like 8 times, I believed, but she said 18, or something like that... Somebody came to school to lecture about this.

There were a number of really creepy books about a post nuclear war society which perhaps some remember? One that I remember one was about animals that lived in a Russian town after all the people had died in a nuclear war. The animals tried to understand what happened, and in the process made some wise observations about the madness of an arms race. Anyone remembers that book?

One of the things that was often said was that any nuclear war was most likely going to be started by a misunderstanding or mistake -- neither super power would deliberatly start a nuclear war.
There was apparently an incident where the USA almost fired off the nukes because a flock of birds were flying from Siberia towards Alaska and appeared on the radar like missiles!

It was a big thing where I grew up, to believe in "neutrality", that the superpowers were generally crazy and greedy for land and assets.

In the neighbourhood I grew up, another thing was whether to join, the scouts or the pioneers. My best friend was in the pioneers, and in addition they had a really varied program of activities. I wanted to join but was not allowed by my parents and had to be in the sea scouts instead, which I did not enjoy. I don't think the pioneer organisation exists in Sweden anymore

Remember another school lecture about why Sweden needed a defense, and compulsory military service for the guys (now stopped). Kids said "What's the point - the Russians/Americans could invade us any time they wanted, we wouldn't stand a chance...".

The idea was that the Northern part of Scandinavia was incredibly strategically important for some complicated reason that I totally missed. So, supposedly either super power might come up with the idea to invade, "liberate", forcibly send a bunch of "advisors" and insist on a military base there, or something like that. However, our guys on skis with white anoraks could prevent this due to superior training, local knowledge etc....I did not buy it.... Sweden has not had any spine at all militarily for the last few hundred years, and would probably have surrendered long before anyone actually died in a hypothetical invasion! This is evidenced for exampled by our behaviour during both WW2, and what happened at the end of the Cold War - Senior politicians and other leaders changing the politics and alliances like others change socks.

I wonder how many times over the world could still be destroyed by the existing nuclear arsenal, and whether it matters?
No idea!

Nowadays I am more concerned about Environmental matters, and it is still nice to think that the military tension and scary border controls are gone from the European continent.

But talk of this played a huge part of my childhood, as it probably did for everyone over the age of 35.

Super creepy book from my childhood - some kids get cancer and starve to death after a nuclear war..."The Last Children"
I read this book several times in my childhood.

Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

I can't remember hearing about anything as extreme as American "home-made" bomb shelters, and later, in the 80s the atmosphere was very much relaxed, despite occasional talk about WWIII or American nuclear threat. We studied what we should do during the nuclear strike at school, but no one took it very seriously. The possibility of actual nuclear war seemed very small.

Perhaps it was part of a propaganda campaign to scare Americans by suggesting that it would be wise build their own bomb shelters. There are thosands of American TV shows from that era with "evil Russians" plotting something nasty against nice Americans. I don't think there was equivalent bad portraying of Americans on Soviet TV.

I remember the first time I saw such a film and was able to follow the plot. I was totally shocked at the prejudiced, ill informed and one dimensional portrait of Russians - I regularly saw Russian ferry passengers at my local metro stop, and had been in the USSR, so it was clear to me that the film was blatantly untrue in what it conveyed.

But how would an American living in the midwest watching the same filem have known?

But now it is almost as if the propaganda has become the official truth!

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

Well, how does that old song go again? Oh, yeah:

"Союз нерушимый республик свободных.
Сплотила навеки Великая Русь"

(I.e., While the угнетающая верхушка [oppressive elite leadership] of the Soviet Union was -- from the US point of view -- the major threat, it was them goddamn rooskies who built the USSR in the first place, as they brag about in their own anthem!)

Советский Союз представлял собой угрозу американскому господству в мире, а не самой Америке. Разница в пропаганде очевидна.

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