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Thread: Russian verbal aspects and tenses

  1. #1
    JackBoni
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    Russian verbal aspects and tenses

    Would someone mind checking through these sentences for me to do with verbal aspect? Большой спасибо за помощь!

    Вчера я написал другу длинное письмо
    На прошлой неделе мы поезили в Германию
    В прошлую среду они полетали в Америку
    Завтра он будет читать русскую газету

    How do you form the "will have" and "should have" construction in Russian? Eg:

    Ivan will have read the book by the end of the week
    Katya should have finished the essay last night

    Большой спасибо. Джек

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    Re: Russian verbal aspects and tenses

    Quote Originally Posted by JackBoni
    Большое спасибо за помощь!

    Вчера я написал другу длинное письмо.
    На прошлой неделе мы _ездили (or съездили) в Германию.
    В прошлую среду они _летали (or слетали) в Америку.
    Завтра он будет читать русскую газету.

    How do you form the "will have" and "should have" construction in Russian? Eg:

    Ivan will have read the book by the end of the week
    Иван дочитает книгу в конце недели.
    Katya should have finished the essay last night.
    Катя должна была закончить эссе этой ночью/вчера вечером.

    Большое спасибо. Джек
    In Russian, all nationalities and their corresponding languages start with a lower-case letter.

  3. #3
    JackBoni
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    A more complicated tense - the "future perfect"

    Can someone write the following sentences out in Russian for me please?

    If someone can explain the Russian "will have" verbal pattern to me, then it will be easier for me to make up my own sentences; eg:

    I will have done my homework by the time the bell rings
    We will have arrived in Moscow by the time I wake up
    They will have left England by tomorrow

    I don't understand how the tenses work, so maybe after someone has written down these sentences I will have a better idea.

    Большое спасибо за помощь
    Джек

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    Re: A more complicated tense - the "future perfect"

    I will have done my homework by the time the bell rings
    Я закончу мою домашнюю работу к тому времени, как зазвенит звонок. You can change the parts of the phrase and put it in different places like that:
    К тому времени, как прозвонит звонок, я доделаю моё домашнее задание.
    or Когда прозвенит звонок, я уже сделаю (доделаю) мою домашнюю работу.

    We will have arrived in Moscow by the time I wake up
    К тому времени, как я проснуcь, мы прибудем в Москву.
    Мы уже объявимся в Москве, когда я проснусь.

    They will have left England by tomorrow
    Они покинут Англию к завтрашнему дню.
    Or
    Завтра они покинут Англию.

    I don't know how to make it easier.

    I suspect the word уже (already) could help (it would do if I were you).
    Они уже уедут, уже покинут Англию, когда наступит завтрашний день.
    All the difference between these events is hidden in the word уже - while both events will happen in the future one will happen a little later.

    So we hide the fact that they have left the country before tomorrow has come behind our word already. Then we take this word out and all what we have is the phrase with two similar future tenses - они покинут (Англию), когда наступит (завтра). We have the trace of our already - the word когда - when. When tomorrow comes they will already have left England. (Perhaps I am in a great mistake< but I see it like this)

    К тому времени, как наступит завтра, они уже давно покинут Англию и будут очень далеко.

    By the time when tomorrow comes they will have already left England and will have been very far from here.
    Я так думаю.

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    >В прошлую среду они _летали (or слетали) в Америку.
    You use the iterative (multidirectional) verb to indicate going to a place and returning. Verbs of motion are uniquely different from other verbs. As you can see in Olya's correction, she is using two imperfective verbs летать and слетать, which means they went there and back. The prefix c with verbs of motion means there and back, I am pretty sure. If they did not return, i.e., they are still in America, then you would use the perfective with some other prefix on лететь.

    Так как маловероятно, что это русские летели в Америку а потом вернулись в один день, не было бы лучше сказать Они полетели (возможны разные приставки, у-, от- и др.) в Америку.?

    Конечно, если они уже в Канаде живут, то всё нормально!

    I have been struggling with aspect for more years than I care to admit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chaika
    As you can see in Olya's correction, she is using two imperfective verbs летать and слетать
    Слетать is perfective. Because of с-, I think.
    Что делать? - летать
    Что сделать? - слетать

    If they did not return, i.e., they are still in America, then you would use the perfective with some other prefix on лететь.
    "Улетели в Америку" then.

    Так как маловероятно, что _ русские по/улетели в Америку а потом вернулись через один день, не было бы лучше сказать Они полетели (возможны разные приставки, у-, от- и др.) в Америку?
    Yes, "улетать" is fine. "Отлетели" doesn't work here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Оля
    Quote Originally Posted by chaika
    As you can see in Olya's correction, she is using two imperfective verbs летать and слетать
    Слетать is perfective. Because of с-, I think.
    Что делать? - летать
    Что сделать? - слетать
    No. A normal (not verb of motion) imperfective verb + prefix = perfective verb:
    делать (imp.) + с = сделать (perf.)

    BUT Verbs of Motion are different.

    A multidirectional verb of motion + prefix = imperfective verb
    A unidirectional verb of motion + prefix = perfective verb

    летать (multidirectional) + c = слетать (imperfective)
    лететь (unidirectional) + c = cлететь (perfective)

    ходить (multidirectional) + c = сходить (imp.)
    идти (unidirectional) + c = сойти (perf.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by TATY
    Quote Originally Posted by Оля
    Слетать is perfective. Because of с-, I think.
    Что делать? - летать
    Что сделать? - слетать
    No. A normal (not verb of motion) imperfective verb + prefix = perfective verb
    I'm sorry TATY, who is Russian - you or me?

    As I said, слетать is perfective (in this context, i.e. in the sense "fly away and be back").

    But: there is another verb слетать which answers the question "что делать", and this verb is imperfective. But the sense of this слетать is a bit different. It means "fly off (all the time)".

    For example: Эта гайка всё время слетает (слетает is in the present tense here).
    But:
    В марте моя сестра слетает на пару недель в Америку (слетает is in the future tense here).

    Она давно хотела туда слетать. (хотела что сделать? - the perfective aspect)
    Я хочу, чтобы эта гайка перестала слетать! (перестала что делать? - the imperfective aspect)
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  9. #9
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    [quote=Оля][quote=TATY][quote="Оля":7fprak20]Слетать is perfective. Because of с-, I think.
    Что делать? - летать
    Что [i]с[/i]делать? - [i]с[/i]летать
    [/quote]

    No. A normal (not verb of motion) imperfective verb + prefix = perfective verb[/quote]
    I'm sorry TATY, who is Russian - you or me?

    As I said, слетать [i]is[/i] perfective ([u]in this context[/u], i.e. in the sense "fly away and be back").

    But: there is another verb [i]слетать[/i] which answers the question "что [i]делать[/i]", and this verb is imperfective. But the sense of this [i]слетать[/i] is a bit different. It means "fly off (all the time)".

    For example: [i]Эта гайка всё время слетает[/i] (слетает is in the present tense here).
    But:
    [i]В марте моя сестра слетает на пару недель в Америку[/i] (слетает is in the future tense here).

    [i]Она давно хотела туда слетать[/i]. (хотела [b]что сделать?[/b] - the perfective aspect)
    [i]Я хочу, чтобы эта гайка перестала слетать![/i] (перестала [b]что делать?[/b] - the imperfective aspect)[/quote:7fprak20]

    Нет, "слетать" не может быть глаголом совершенного вида.
    Каждый глагол имеет вид, либо несовершенный, либо совершенный. Просто возможно употреблять некоторые глаголы в настоящее время, чтобы обозначать будущее время. (с)делать - простой глагол, а (с)летать - глагол движения. Грамматика глаголов движения отличается от грамматика простых глаголов.

    [b]В марте моя сестра слетает на пару недель в Америку[/b]
    It is the future tense in context only, like is English "In March my sister is going to America" .. [i]is going[/i]... implies the future, but it is present tense in form.

    [b]Завтра я еду в....[/b]
    [b]еду [/b]implies the future. But what is it? It's the [b]present tense of a imperfective verb[/b] [b]ехать[/b].

    [url="http://www.lingvo.ru/lingvo/Link.asp?Ln=1&CardId=441;43b;435;442;430;442;44c;0 ;4c;69;6e;67;76;6f;55;6e;69;76;65;72;73;61;6c;20;2 8;52;75;2d;45;6e;29&ShowBlock=1"]http://www.lingvo.ru/lingvo/Link.asp?Ln ... howBlock=1[/url]
    несовер. - слетать; совер. - слететь

    Just becaue you're Russian doesn't mean you can invent new Russian grammar rules.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TATY
    Нет, "слетать" не может быть глаголом совершенного вида.
    И может, и есть:
    http://www.gramota.ru/slovari/dic/?word ... 25FC&all=x

    Quote Originally Posted by www.gramota.ru
    СЛЕТАТЬ1 сов. неперех.
    Летая, побывать где-л. и возвратиться назад.

    перен. разг. Очень быстро сходить, сбегать, съездить куда-л. и возвратиться назад.


    СЛЕТАТЬ2 несов. неперех.
    Летя, опускаться куда-л. // перен. Нисходить на кого-л., что-л.

    Взлетая, покидать какое-л. место (о птицах, насекомых и т.п.).

    перен. разг. Стремительно спускаться откуда-л. // Падать, сорвавшись откуда-л., отделившись от чего-л.

    перен. разг. Переставать существовать, проявляться в ком-л., чем-л.; исчезать, пропадать.

    перен. разг. Лишаться должности, места.

    перен. разг. Вырываться помимо воли, нечаянно (о словах, выражениях и т.п.).
    В марте моя сестра слетает на пару недель в Америку
    It is the future tense in context only, like is English "In March my sister is going to America" .. is going... implies the future, but it is present tense in form.
    TATY you are wrong. It is the future tense NOT in context only, but grammatically. One can also say "Моя сестра через два дня летит в Америку" - and yes, in this case the sense is the future, but the form is the present.
    As for "слетает в Америку" - слетает is the future tense in form.

    Just becaue you're Russian doesn't mean you can invent new Russian grammar rules
    I'm Russian and I can determine absolutely accurately what question the verb answers: что делать? or что сделать?
    And I don't invent any rules. You just can't understand that there are two different verbs слетать (the perfective and the imperfective one) which sound equal and have the same root.
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    See, TATY, what did I tell you? I have been struggling for 40 years with verbs of motion. And this particular verb is not the only one of its ilk - many more if not all motion verbs can do this. I have two or three books on verbs of motion and I still have questions sometimes.

    Even multitran says it's imperfective
    http://www.multitran.ru/c/m.exe?a=ShowM ... =28019_2_1

    This prefix c- often means "downward". I can say я съездил в г.Вильмингтон meaning I went down to Wilmington, and returned. I guess it means it's perfective. I don't know what съехал в Вильмингтон would mean, maybe I went there and stayed. I can also say Я ездил в г.Вильмингтон with the meaning there and back again.

    I gotta go hit the verbal books again....

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    слетAть (perf) - слетAть (imperf)
    is analogous to
    сбЕгать (perf) - сбегАть (imperf)

    Does it make things any easier? All 4 of them are different words.

    perf. ones
    past:
    Она слетАла в Америку.
    Она сбЕгала в магазин.
    no present
    future:
    Она слетАет в Америку.
    Она сбЕгает в магазин.

    imperf. ones
    past:
    Шапка слетАла с головы.
    Каша сбегАла с плиты.
    present:
    Шапка слетАет с головы.
    Каша сбегАет с плиты.
    no "genuine" future

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    Quote Originally Posted by E-learner
    слетAть (perf) - слетAть (imperf)
    is analogous to
    сбЕгать (perf) - сбегАть (imperf)

    Does it make things any easier? All 4 of them are different words.
    Clear as mud!

    Sorry, I'm not making fun of you, but it took me a while to puzzle out exactly what you were talking about (my first thought was that you made a typo and meant слетать vs. слететь).

    Luckily, the New Penguin Russian Course can help! Readest thou sections 20.3 and 20.4 for an explanation. Normally, when a multidirectional verb, i.e., летать, takes a prefix, it remains imperfective. There's even a с- prefix, which generally mean 'off', so the verb слетать is imperfective and means to fly down, to fly away, etc.

    The problem is that there's a different с- prefix, which means 'to make a single round trip.' When you apply this с- prefix (or по- apparently) to a multidirectional verb, it becomes perfective.

    In the Katzner dictionary, you'll find 2 different entries for слетать:

    1. (imperf.) to fly down, fly away, etc.
    2. (perf) to fly (to a certain place and return)

    AFAIK, the unidirectional verbs always become perfective when you add a prefix, so there should be no confusion there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by E-learner
    слетAть (perf) - слетAть (imperf)
    is analogous to
    сбЕгать (perf) - сбегАть (imperf)
    This reminded me about the word that is very rarely used and is considered illiterate, like
    "Слётай за поллитрой".

    So, it is not impossible that some time ago this analogy existed:

    слЁтать (perf) - слетAть (imperf)
    сбЕгать (perf) - сбегАть (imperf)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grogs
    The problem is that there's a different с- prefix, which means 'to make a single round trip.' When you apply this с- prefix (or по- apparently) to a multidirectional verb, it becomes perfective.
    Yes, this explanation is much, much easier than mine, provided that you know what "multidirectional verb" is, which I don't. Well, I did my best.

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    Quote Originally Posted by E-learner
    Yes, this explanation is much, much easier than mine, provided that you know what "multidirectional verb" is, which I don't. Well, I did my best.
    No problem. It's not an easy concept to get across.

    Ходить, летать, ездить, and бегать are multidirectional verbs of motion because they generally imply motion in more than one direction (or that the direction is irrelevant), as opposed to идти, лететь, ехать, and бежать, which are unidirectional and imply motion in only one direction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grogs
    It's not an easy concept to get across.
    Definitely. I remember someone (TATY?) correcting me when I mixed up лететь with летать.
    But now that you explaned it it seems pretty easy. Still, you need to apply different set of rules to which category and all this business with suffixes and prefixes seems terribly complicated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chaika
    I can say я съездил в г.Вильмингтон meaning I went down to Wilmington, and returned. I guess it means it's perfective.
    Yes, съездил is the same case as слетал, and it's perfective.

    Quote Originally Posted by chaika
    I don't know what съехал в Вильмингтон would mean, maybe I went there and stayed.
    It would mean you were on top of a hill, and Willmington was down, and you slided down, to Willmington
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    Quote Originally Posted by Оля

    Quote Originally Posted by chaika
    I don't know what съехал в Вильмингтон would mean, maybe I went there and stayed.
    It would mean you were on top of a hill, and Willmington was down, and you slided down, to Willmington
    Оля, мне ужасно понравилась твоя версия!

    There is another meaning - if wilmington is a name of mention or your family estate or manor house for rent or a city quarter, or even a city - you could move there from your current house. So you could съехать из дому в Вильмингтон. Старый баронет помер, и их сиятельство новый баронет Вильмингтон третьего дня съехали с их Брайтонской квартиры в Вильмингтон - их имение.

    Or even worse, it was Duke of Wellington (it is very possible, since it could be a misprint), who by accident rolled down from the hill and broke his thumb, lost five teeth and a horse and all his fortune (his father's last will has been catched by the wind and flu in the undetermined direction)! He must be under the evil eye, so bad luck you know!
    Я так думаю.

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    Я тоже подумала про такую версию, но мне все-таки кажется, что гораздо чаще говорят съехать откуда, а не съехать куда. Например, "он съехал с квартиры", "он отсюда съехал", или просто "он съехал" - звучит вполне нормально. А вот "он съехал в Москву", "он съехал в другое имение" - для меня звучит плохо.
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