Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 61

Thread: Do Russians know all the grammatical terms?

  1. #1
    Завсегдатай
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    las vegas
    Posts
    1,687
    Rep Power
    11

    Do Russians know all the grammatical terms?

    I asked a friend what is the gerund form of "to run", and he gave me a strange look and said "what the f--k are you talking about?"
    I got a similar response when I asked about participles.

    Apparently the average American does not know all the technical terms for the different verb forms.

    If I ask the average Russian person a question like "why is the instrumental case used here instead of the genitive case?" would they understand the question?
    Какая разница, умереть богатым или бедным?

    Какой толк от богатства если ты не счастлив.

  2. #2
    Почтенный гражданин
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Kansas City, USA
    Posts
    151
    Rep Power
    10
    If you ask it in English - you'll get the same response

  3. #3
    Увлечённый спикер
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Siberia
    Posts
    46
    Rep Power
    10

    Re: Do Russians know all the gramatical terms?

    Quote Originally Posted by kwatts59
    If I ask the average Russian person a question like "why is the instrumental case used here instead of the genitive case?" would they understand the question?
    Probably. But don't expect a sensible answer from anyone but the folks trained to teach Russian as a foreign language. Native speakers say things this or that way because, well, huh, that's the way one says it.
    The above may contain Siberian words, idioms, usages, and ideas. Take care.

  4. #4
    Почтенный гражданин
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    438
    Rep Power
    10
    I still remember names of all cases (in Russian, I have no idea what instrumental case is, творительный?) but I would have no idea why is it used instead of genitive (винительный?)

  5. #5
    Властелин
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Invalid City!
    Posts
    1,352
    Rep Power
    12
    They might understand the question, but the answer would most likely be "because it's the answer to a different question". It sounds cryptic but it makes perfect sense when you remember that natives of any language learn grammar from the point of view of better understanding a language they already know instinctively. It's exactly the opposite way around for foreigners, so the methodology is different.

    Though that's still better than most English-speakers would manage if asked to explain a bit of English grammar to a foreigner.

  6. #6
    Почтенный гражданин
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    541
    Rep Power
    10
    I do not know rules neither in Russian nor in English.

    Wouldn't be even able to ask something like that.
    DO NOT READ MY SIGNATURE!

  7. #7
    Завсегдатай
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    My Time & Space
    Posts
    6,559
    Rep Power
    16

    Re: Do Russians know all the gramatical terms?

    Quote Originally Posted by kwatts59
    If I ask the average Russian person a question like "why is the instrumental case used here instead of the genitive case?" would they understand the question?
    I think they would. "Average" people having brains - certainly.

    They who understand you and won't say go and do something indecent for sure are philologists. I am one of them. It's my duty to know and manipulate all these millions freakin' terms understandable only by linguists.
    «И всё, что сейчас происходит внутре — тоже является частью вселенной».

  8. #8
    Почтенный гражданин
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    438
    Rep Power
    10

    Re: Do Russians know all the gramatical terms?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rtyom
    they would. "Average" people having brains - certainly.

    They who understand you and won't say go and do something indecent for sure are philologists. I am one of them. It's my duty to know and manipulate all these millions freakin' terms understandable only by linguists.
    Once I asked my ESL teacher why perfect continues is used here, not just perfect, and she couldn't explain. She advised that I believed her native speaker's feelings, which I did. But I still wanted to know why.

  9. #9
    Почтенный гражданин
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    541
    Rep Power
    10

    Re: Do Russians know all the gramatical terms?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vesh
    Quote Originally Posted by Rtyom
    they would. "Average" people having brains - certainly.

    They who understand you and won't say go and do something indecent for sure are philologists. I am one of them. It's my duty to know and manipulate all these millions freakin' terms understandable only by linguists.
    Once I asked my ESL teacher why perfect continues is used here, not just perfect, and she couldn't explain. She advised that I believed her native speaker's feelings, which I did. But I still wanted to know why.
    that is a simple case

    I catch fish = я ловлю рыбу регулярно (каждую субботу скажем), но сейчас я сижу на диване и пью пиво
    I am catching fish = прямо сейчас я сижу и ловлю рыбу, заткнись идиот, ты мне весь улов распугаешь!
    DO NOT READ MY SIGNATURE!

  10. #10
    Завсегдатай
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    My Time & Space
    Posts
    6,559
    Rep Power
    16

    Re: Do Russians know all the gramatical terms?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vesh
    Quote Originally Posted by Rtyom
    they would. "Average" people having brains - certainly.

    They who understand you and won't say go and do something indecent for sure are philologists. I am one of them. It's my duty to know and manipulate all these millions freakin' terms understandable only by linguists.
    Once I asked my ESL teacher why perfect continues is used here, not just perfect, and she couldn't explain. She advised that I believed her native speaker's feelings, which I did. But I still wanted to know why.
    I wonder what certificate she has got. What I spoke of is real specialists.
    «И всё, что сейчас происходит внутре — тоже является частью вселенной».

  11. #11
    Завсегдатай
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    My Time & Space
    Posts
    6,559
    Rep Power
    16

    Re: Do Russians know all the gramatical terms?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pioner
    Quote Originally Posted by Vesh
    Quote Originally Posted by Rtyom
    they would. "Average" people having brains - certainly.

    They who understand you and won't say go and do something indecent for sure are philologists. I am one of them. It's my duty to know and manipulate all these millions freakin' terms understandable only by linguists.
    Once I asked my ESL teacher why perfect continues is used here, not just perfect, and she couldn't explain. She advised that I believed her native speaker's feelings, which I did. But I still wanted to know why.
    that is a simple case

    I catch fish = я ловлю рыбу регулярно (каждую субботу скажем), но сейчас я сижу на диване и пью пиво
    I am catching fish = прямо сейчас я сижу и ловлю рыбу, заткнись идиот, ты мне весь улов распугаешь!
    You're not in command of the subject. Vesh meant perfect tenses.

    Vesh, you can write the thing that confused you and we'll make an attwmpt to explain it.
    «И всё, что сейчас происходит внутре — тоже является частью вселенной».

  12. #12
    Почтенный гражданин
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    438
    Rep Power
    10

    Re: Do Russians know all the gramatical terms?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pioner
    Quote Originally Posted by Vesh
    Quote Originally Posted by Rtyom
    they would. "Average" people having brains - certainly.

    They who understand you and won't say go and do something indecent for sure are philologists. I am one of them. It's my duty to know and manipulate all these millions freakin' terms understandable only by linguists.
    Once I asked my ESL teacher why perfect continues is used here, not just perfect, and she couldn't explain. She advised that I believed her native speaker's feelings, which I did. But I still wanted to know why.
    that is a simple case

    I catch fish = я ловлю рыбу регулярно (каждую субботу скажем), но сейчас я сижу на диване и пью пиво
    I am catching fish = прямо сейчас я сижу и ловлю рыбу, заткнись идиот, ты мне весь улов распугаешь!
    perfect continues vs perfect.

    "I've lived in CA since 1999." vs "I've been living in CA since 1999."

  13. #13
    Почтенный гражданин
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    541
    Rep Power
    10

    Re: Do Russians know all the gramatical terms?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vesh
    "I've lived in CA since 1999." vs "I've been living in CA since 1999."
    ooops, вот что значит моя необразованность. Это сложнее, но тоже можно:

    Первое предложение несколько неправильно, я думаю. Должно быть:
    "I've lived in CA for 5 years" = к настоящему моменту я прожил в Калифорнии 5 лет, но сейчас я там не живу (действие завершено)

    Второе предложение:
    "Я живу в Калифорнии с 1999-го года, и сейчас продолжаю там жить".
    DO NOT READ MY SIGNATURE!

  14. #14
    Почтенный гражданин
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    438
    Rep Power
    10

    Re: Do Russians know all the gramatical terms?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pioner
    Quote Originally Posted by Vesh
    "I've lived in CA since 1999." vs "I've been living in CA since 1999."
    Первое предложение несколько неправильно, я думаю. Должно быть:
    "I've lived in CA for 5 years" = к настоящему моменту я прожил в Калифорнии 5 лет, но сейчас я там не живу (действие завершено)
    Думаю, ты ошибаешься. Перфект вовсе не обязательно подразумевает завершенность действия.

    Но xотелось бы послушать носителей языка.

  15. #15
    Почтенный гражданин
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    541
    Rep Power
    10
    неа, не ошибаюсь. Возможны исключения, но основное правило это. Действие должно быть завершено к моменту разговора.

    I have driven to San-Francisco for 2 hours (и вот я уже приехал)
    I have been driven to SF for 2 hours (я уже за рулем 2 часа, и все еще еду)
    DO NOT READ MY SIGNATURE!

  16. #16
    Завсегдатай
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    My Time & Space
    Posts
    6,559
    Rep Power
    16
    Вообще-то разница между простым и длительным перфектом в том, что первый подразумевает законченность действия в прошлом, а второй его продолжительность даже в момент речи. Факт.
    «И всё, что сейчас происходит внутре — тоже является частью вселенной».

  17. #17
    Властелин
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Сварга
    Posts
    1,391
    Rep Power
    12
    I lived in Narofominsk for 5 years.

    Точное указание срока - Simple Past Tense

    Perfect - моя вторая тихая ненависть после артиклей

  18. #18
    Завсегдатай
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    My Time & Space
    Posts
    6,559
    Rep Power
    16
    Quote Originally Posted by Indra
    I lived in Narofominsk for 5 years.

    Точное указание срока - Simple Past Tense

    Perfect - моя вторая тихая ненависть после артиклей
    Это потому, что перфект и прошедшее простое используется также, как и артикли. Тоже, кстати, факт, зафиксиованный в подробных пособиях по грамматике.
    «И всё, что сейчас происходит внутре — тоже является частью вселенной».

  19. #19
    Почтенный гражданин
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    438
    Rep Power
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by Indra
    I lived in Narofominsk for 5 years.

    Точное указание срока - Simple Past Tense

    Perfect - моя вторая тихая ненависть после артиклей
    Wrong. You do need perfect here.

    Unfortunately I instinctively avoid using perfect in my speech. A lot of non-native speakers do.

  20. #20
    Почтенный гражданин
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    541
    Rep Power
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by Vesh
    Quote Originally Posted by Indra
    I lived in Narofominsk for 5 years.

    Точное указание срока - Simple Past Tense

    Perfect - моя вторая тихая ненависть после артиклей
    Wrong. You do need perfect here.

    Unfortunately I instinctively avoid using perfect in my speech. A lot of non-native speakers do.
    Indra is partially right. I mean her sentense makes sense. But that was in the past in general, without linking to current moment at all.

    I lived in Narofominsk for 5 years = Я прожила в Нарофоминске 5 лет
    I have lived in Narofominst for 5 years = Вот, устраиваюсь в Москве, а до этого я 5 лет прожила в Нарофоминске
    I have been living in Narofominst for 5 years = Я тут живу уже 5 лет.

    Кстати, упущена еще одна форма, которая меня смущала поначалу:

    I used to go to that school = Я (бывало) ходил в ту школу
    DO NOT READ MY SIGNATURE!

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Medical terms
    By flyfisher in forum Grammar and Vocabulary
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: October 17th, 2015, 10:52 AM
  2. Grammatical gender
    By Misha Tal in forum Grammar and Vocabulary
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: June 19th, 2010, 07:05 AM
  3. Russian Grammatical Dictionary
    By gariche in forum Grammar and Vocabulary
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: February 2nd, 2010, 08:27 PM
  4. Grammatical words and a few phrases
    By JackBoni in forum Grammar and Vocabulary
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: July 7th, 2008, 11:51 AM
  5. Grammatical Terms....again
    By piehunt in forum Book Reviews
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: June 11th, 2003, 12:10 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


Russian Lessons                           

Russian Tests and Quizzes            

Russian Vocabulary