Thread: The crisis in Syria

Originally Posted by Deborski

If he invades Syria, then I think his Nobel prize should be rescinded..

He should never have had it in the first place! I have no idea why he got it.. He's killed a lot more people than Bin Laden, just as a comparison.

Imo, the reason he even got it, was a bunch of Norwegians on the Nobel Prize comittee wanting to demonstrate their outstanding political correctness - I think he got it because of his skin colour; they were just excited and thought it was a big milestone (which it was). But his war record is actually worse than Bush!









In the UK, even the policians are waking up to the insanity of the proposition to invade Syria.

I mean, the darn Iraq war just ended and the UK still has tens of thousands of guys in Afghanistan.

And all the papers are running stories about "We lost in Afghanistan" and "We made it worse in Iraq".... (both of which are undeniably true).

The other thing that people need to be clear on, is that this is about two objectives:

1) Get rid of a government that isn't pro-Western (but is in fact quite good by Middle Eastern standards).

2) Pave the way for invading Iran.


Syria had been opening up, essentially doing market reforms, and "perestroika" for over a decade. There was already a softening up taking place. Many of those who initially supported the rebels have changed back to supporting the government when they see what kinds of people the rebels are (foreign jihadists!)

This country has been set up, cheated, manipulated and raped. Such a tragedy.
At least let's not start bombing them too!

Russia Worried About Strikes on Syria? Not Really | Features & Opinion | RIA Novosti

Some encouraging news from Russia.

One thing Russia will not do is fight for Syria. Lavrov said it explicitly Monday, and pundits were unequivocal in agreeing he meant it. Like many recent US-led military operations, a strike against Syria simply would not touch enough on Russia’s vital geopolitical interests, leaving Moscow without an incentive to expend the considerable economic and military effort required by overseas military operations, analysts said. Another concern would be public opinion: About the only example of Russia’s military involvement against a US-led military offensive was a sudden takeover by Russian paratroopers of a Kosovo airport in 1999, which left the world slack-jawed but had few consequences otherwise. In that case, however, Moscow could boast to the Russian public of its bold support for the Serbs, a brethren Slavic people perceived as unfairly attacked by the West.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/30/wo..._20130829&_r=0

Britain Rules Out Military Strike on Syria.

Seems not all of Britain's lawmakers are as eager as Prime Minister Cameron is, to take orders from the US!

Prime Minister David Cameron said that Britain would not participate militarily in any strike against Syria after he lost a parliamentary vote by 13 votes on Thursday on an anodyne motion urging an international response.

It was a stunning defeat for a government that had seemed days away from joining the United States and France in a short, punitive cruise-missile attack on the Syrian government of President Bashar al-Assad for reportedly using chemical weapons against civilians.

Thursday evening’s vote was nonbinding, but in a short statement to Parliament afterward, Mr. Cameron said that he respected the will of Parliament and that it was clear to him that the British people did not want to see military action over Syria. “I get it,” he said.

Originally Posted by Deborski

The rebels are not exactly good guys either, Eric. For starters, the rebel movement has been co-opted by Al Qaeda and Al Nusra. Secondarily, the UN investigation so far reveals that it was the rebels - and not Assad - who used sarin gas. And lastly, the rebels engaged in acts of cannibalism - ripping the organs out of their enemies and eating their hearts and intestines.

I cannot begin to comprehend why the US is supporting these people. It's absolutely horrifying. I did not vote for Obama because I wanted to see another repeat of George W. Bush's actions in Iraq.

Well, the way things are going now, I'm inclined to believe some of the sources that depict the rebels as monsters like that. But were they always like that? Do you remember how the whole thing was starting 2 years ago? There wasn't any "rebellion" back then; there were peaceful demonstrations held by completely unarmed people, typically on Fridays; every demonstration had several to several dozen people killed! Whose hands was that blood on? There were no "terrorists" or "Al-Qaeda rebels" at that point, and the dictatorial government didn't even seem to be bothered hiding evidence that it was their soldiers who shot people; now, if you cannot peacefully fight for your rights (or they'll kill you), do you have much of a choice? Anything but starting an armed fight for your rights and dignity? That was how the rebellion started.

It's very sad that now, there are lots of war criminals and provokers there who pretend to be "rebels"; I'm sure enough there wasn't much of them 1-1.5 years ago; anyway, I think the "true rebels", those who fight for their rights and freedom against the dictatorial regime are real heroes, and helping them will help their country, eventually.

Originally Posted by Eric C.

Well, the way things are going now, I'm inclined to believe some of the sources that depict the rebels as monsters like that. But were they always like that? Do you remember how the whole thing was starting 2 years ago? There wasn't any "rebellion" back then; there were peaceful demonstrations held by completely unarmed people, typically on Fridays; every demonstration had several to several dozen people killed! Whose hands was that blood on? There were no "terrorists" or "Al-Qaeda rebels" at that point, and the dictatorial government didn't even seem to be bothered hiding evidence that it was their soldiers who shot people; now, if you cannot peacefully fight for your rights (or they'll kill you), do you have much of a choice? Anything but starting an armed fight for your rights and dignity? That was how the rebellion started.

It's very sad that now, there are lots of war criminals and provokers there who pretend to be "rebels"; I'm sure enough there wasn't much of them 1-1.5 years ago; anyway, I think the "true rebels", those who fight for their rights and freedom against the dictatorial regime are real heroes, and helping them will help their country, eventually.

In the beginning, the rebels asked the UN for a no-fly zone. They were denied. So Al Qaeda stepped in to help them because no one else did. At least that is my understanding from talking with a friend of mine from Syria, whose husband has been volunteering in the refugee camps. But even she tells me that the rebels do not want America to get involved militarily.

If we want to help people, we should send food, medical aid, blankets, tents... whatever we can do to help anyone who is suffering. But military involvement will not bring an end to all the bloodshed. It will only worsen the situation, if what the majority of analysts say is true.

Originally Posted by Deborski

In the beginning, the rebels asked the UN for a no-fly zone. They were denied. So Al Qaeda stepped in to help them because no one else did. At least that is my understanding from talking with a friend of mine from Syria, whose husband has been volunteering in the refugee camps. But even she tells me that the rebels do not want America to get involved militarily.

If we want to help people, we should send food, medical aid, blankets, tents... whatever we can do to help anyone who is suffering. But military involvement will not bring an end to all the bloodshed. It will only worsen the situation, if what the majority of analysts say is true.

The people should ultimately defeat the regime though... I'm not sure what exact help that will take, but it occurs to me that just food and clothes won't be sufficient (they'll be helping people survive, but that war might never end that way)

Exactly. So best way to do is support "the dictatorial government" (and I wonder, could exist non-dictatorial one in the East at all?) to suppress the opposition and take away their arms. Then, in gratitude Asad will unfold civic reforms, and may be even eventually lose the power.
Forecasts are gloomy, though, in any case. For many years it would be like Egypt or worse.

Originally Posted by maxmixiv

Exactly. So best way to do is support "the dictatorial government" (and I wonder, could exist non-dictatorial one in the East at all?) to suppress the opposition and take away their arms. Then, in gratitude Asad will unfold civic reforms, and may be even eventually lose the power.
Forecasts are gloomy, though, in any case. For many years it would be like Egypt or worse.

I think many people in the middle east want a non-dictatorial leadership, but they are inexperienced with it and it seems that every time a leader is established, he turns into a dictator, no matter how he got into power.

U.S. military officers have deep doubts about impact, wisdom of a U.S. strike on Syria - The Washington Post

Many of America's top military brass don't want to take action against Syria either!

Former and current officers, many with the painful lessons of Iraq and Afghanistan on their minds, said the main reservations concern the potential unintended consequences of launching cruise missiles against Syria.

Some questioned the use of military force as a punitive measure and suggested that the White House lacks a coherent strategy. If the administration is ambivalent about the wisdom of defeating or crippling the Syrian leader, possibly setting the stage for Damascus to fall to fundamentalist rebels, they said, the military objective of strikes on Assad’s military targets is at best ambiguous.

Syrian Novelist Khaled al-Khalifa on a Possible US Strike

A noted Syrian novelist, opposed to American involvement, speaks out:

Tell me when did the invaders bring freedom?

“At the end I will never be in favour of any American intervention in our area, because I know them very well. They could have defended the values from day one of our revolution and could have helped us, but they waited till the country was destroyed.

(Deleted. L.)

Originally Posted by 14Russian

...

This if off-topic post and sounds strictly personal as like some other of you posts. Are you aware of existence of Private Messaging on this forum? Before I removed your post could you please send it via PMing?

P.S. I copy-saved your post in case you'd need it

Originally Posted by 14Russian

I don't post for 'likes' unlike you. For me, it's not a popularity contest. Of course, the non-Russian mod will censor the truth I give. But, anyone who engages you is wasting their time since you will just pull the persecution/paranoia card any time anyone illustrates your lack of reason.

I'm not talking about your points but when someone disagrees.

It doesn't matter about your justification for voting for Obomber. Most Americans should have known what they were getting. There was plenty of criticism and insight about it prior to both elections. There's the internet, fyi. Maybe, you've heard of it?

You make a lot of assumptions, 14Russian... and you judge people too harshly. I am sorry that you see everyone as so inferior to yourself. My posts have nothing to do with wanting "popularity" - LOL - in case you didn't notice I have been attacked because of my "so popular" views on gay rights. Even my husband's website was hacked. So your point is meaningless. As for the victim card, I am no one's "victim" but I sure as hell am not going to shut up when people attack me. I'm going to call them on it, expose them, and do all in my power to stop the attacks.

I have nothing further to say to you.

Originally Posted by Lampada

This if off-topic post and sounds strictly personal as like some other of you posts. Are you aware of existence of Private Messaging on this forum? Before I removed your post could you please send it via PMing?

P.S. I copy-saved your post in case you'd need it

He knows that if he PM's me, I will just ignore it and not respond. He addresses me in a public forum because he hopes to gain points with those who already hate me. But I agree, all this personal attacking and nonsense has no place in a serious discussion.

I don't care who people voted for. It doesn't make some kind of blanket statement about people! It isn't as if Americans have a lot of choices in any case. It was Obama, or it was Romney, or it was one of a dozen other lesser candidates who would never win anyway. Simple choice and I feel no shame for it. My husband is alive today because of Obamacare. Nothing which happens in Syria can take that away from me, and there is STILL A CHANCE that Obama might back off from the precipice and decide against the air strikes, since so few Americans support this!

Of course, the non-Russian mod will censor the truth I give.

Кстати, Лампада, кажется, что ты не русская! Жалко.

Но я должна сказать, что ты всё равно отлично говоришь по-русски!

Originally Posted by Deborski

Кстати, Лампада, кажется, что ты не русская! Жалко.

Но я должна сказать, что ты всё равно отлично говоришь по-русски!

Мой сын считает, что я русская.

By the way, 14, I know your attitude for different sorts of propaganda, which I have to say I like, and having said this, I'd like to bring up some point here which I think you should consider, which is, no one of the participants on this thread has come even close to the level of propaganda buying at which those fighting the war in Syria on Assad's side are

Originally Posted by Lampada

Мой сын считает, что я русская.

)))))) Его кот тоже, наверное, русский!

У него две кошки.
Наши евреи смеются: "Там мы были евреями, а тут мы все сразу стали русскими".

Originally Posted by Lampada

У него две кошки.
Наши евреи смеются: "Там мы были евреями, а тут мы все сразу стали русскими".

Да )))) И в Америке, кажется, что я даже русская. Я слишком часто говорю о Россие, по-этому мои друзья все называют меня "русская"

Странно, потому-что когда я жила в России, меня называли "американка"...

Я уже не знаю, кто есть я