Thread: The crisis in Syria

Americans voted in Obomber (TWICE) and then complain afterwards. Typical lefties.

Speaking of semantics games....

A short, but somewhat meaningful humor break, courtesy John Cleese of Monty Python fame:



ALERTS TO THREATS
IN 2013 EUROPE

From JOHN CLEESE

The English are feeling the pinch in relation to recent events in Syria and have therefore raised their security level from "Miffed" to "Peeved." Soon, though, security levels may be raised yet again to "Irritated" or even "A Bit Cross." The English have not been "A Bit Cross" since the blitz in 1940 when tea supplies nearly ran out. Terrorists have been re-categorized from "Tiresome" to "A Bloody Nuisance." The last time the British issued a "Bloody Nuisance" warning level was in 1588, when threatened by the Spanish Armada.


The Scots have raised their threat level from "Pissed Off" to "Let's get the Bastards." They don't have any other levels. This is the reason they have been used on the front line of the British army for the last 300 years.


The French government announced yesterday that it has raised its terror alert level from "Run" to "Hide." The only two higher levels in France are "Collaborate" and "Surrender." The rise was precipitated by a recent fire that destroyed France 's white flag factory, effectively paralyzing the country's military capability.


Italy has increased the alert level from "Shout Loudly and Excitedly" to "Elaborate Military Posturing." Two more levels remain: "Ineffective Combat Operations" and "Change Sides."


The Germans have increased their alert state from "Disdainful Arrogance" to "Dress in Uniform and Sing Marching Songs." They also have two higher levels: "Invade a Neighbour" and "Lose."


Belgians, on the other hand, are all on holiday as usual; the only threat they are worried about is NATO pulling out of Brussels ..


The Spanish are all excited to see their new submarines ready to deploy. These beautifully designed subs have glass bottoms so the new Spanish navy can get a really good look at the old Spanish navy.


Australia, meanwhile, has raised its security level from "No worries" to "She'll be right, Mate." Two more escalation levels remain: "Crikey! I think we'll need to cancel the barbie this weekend!" and "The barbie is cancelled." So far no situation has ever warranted use of the last final escalation level.


Regards,
John Cleese ,
British writer, actor and tall person


And as a final thought - Greece is collapsing, the Iranians are getting aggressive, and Rome is in disarray. Welcome back to 430 BC.

Life is too short...

Review & Outlook: Loose Lips on Syria - WSJ.com

From this article:

An American military attack on Syria could begin as early as Thursday and will involve three days of missile strikes, according to "senior U.S. officials" talking to NBC News. The Washington Post has the bombing at "no more than two days," though long-range bombers could "possibly" join the missiles. "Factors weighing into the timing of any action include a desire to get it done before the president leaves for Russia next week," reports CNN, citing a "senior administration official."

The New York Times, quoting a Pentagon official, adds that "the initial target list has fewer than 50 sites, including air bases where Syria's Russian-made attack helicopters are deployed." The Times adds that "like several other military officials contacted for this report, the official agreed to discuss planning options only on condition of anonymity."

Typical, Murka, typical. Shoot first. Talk later.

I just get totally sickened by this. How many bloody more times is this going to repeated!!
How long until people get it? These wars help NOBODY apart from the weapons, oil and engineering industries.

It's been done in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, misc. countries in South America and in East Asia in the Cold War.

Syria was NOT even a particularly bad dictatorship. Check out the film series "Syrian School" by the BBC for a realistic view of Syria as it was. This was a relatively decent country and Al-Assad Jr. was quite enlightened as a middle eastern leader.

It makes me sick to think my tax money will be used to destroy Syria even further in the interest of some sinister agenda

One of those, being to weaken the region around Iran, with the aim of war with Iran.
There is at least one regular member here, who lives in Iran, a really sweet person judging from her posts.


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National demonstration: No attack on Syria

Stop the War Coalition, 31 August 2013.
National Demonstration: assemble Saturday 31 August, 12 noon, Temple Place, London (nearest tube Temple)

The national demonstration on Saturday will gather at Temple Place (near Temple tube) and march via Parliament and Downing Street, ending in central London for a political rally to say No attack on Syria.
Called by Stop the War and CND.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have fond memories of Syria...

In the 1980's I walked through the streets of Damascus and sipped Turkish coffee with a man selling embroidered table cloths at a bazaar. I listened to the sounds of prayers coming from the minaret towers and ate tabbouleh under a canvas covering in a garden scented with jasmine flowers and citrus. I walked into ancient mosques in my bare feet, stood upon hand-woven tapestries and marveled at the intricate, colorful tile mosaics.

Later we drove across a vast desert in a van, forded the Tigris and the Euphrates rivers on our journey to Palmyra, the ruins of a once-great trading mecca along the ancient "silk road". There I walked along a colonnaded promenade, among sand-blasted pillars still standing as if in a final salute to their builder, the great warrior Queen, Zenobia, descendent of Cleopatra, who in the third century had the gall to challenge Rome. Palmyra was also known as Tadmor or "Palm City," because it was an oasis where caravans piled with the wealth of the ancient world once stopped to quench the thirst of their weary camels and horses. Zenobia, said to be as good with a sword as any man, rode with her generals into battle and fought against the armies of the great Emperor Aurelian. Her armies brazenly conquered many Roman territories, including Alexandria, before the armies of Rome burned Palmyra to the ground and Aurelian slapped Zenobia into golden chains and dragged her, naked, through the streets of Rome in triumph. Even so, the former splendor of one of the most wealthy trading empires in the world could still be seen, gleaming faintly as the setting sun cast long shadows on columned ruins and stained them pink.

I spotted a pair of Soviet MiGs hurtling through the skies above a ridge overlooking Palmyra, and was reminded that Syria was now a strategic location in the modern world, just as Palmyra once was in Roman times.

We journeyed through Aleppo to Northern Syria where we arrived at our destination, the ancient city of Urkesh, known as Tel Mozan. The Turkish border, only a kilometer away, was clearly visible, dotted with giant guard towers that occasionally were struck by lightening when a sandstorm rolled through, explosions brightening the storm-darkened sky. We were there to work on a significant archaeological find dating back more than 5,000 years and as we labored in the intense 48C heat, we sifted through sand for potsherds, ancient bones and mysterious cult objects from the temple we were excavating. There, we found two skeletons burned by a fire which had destroyed the temple untold thousands of years before our arrival, crushing the people inside under a fallen wall.

The Arab workmen, who helped us to remove large rubber buckets filled with sand, were curious about us, strange light-skinned visitors from the west, and asked many questions as we drank water or the terrible beer of the region which was called Al Shark and smelled like urine. They warned me with comments of "shway shway!" - "caution" - whenever I accidentally dug too close to hole of a camel spider. These strange arachnid-like creatures were as large as dinner plates and aggressive, sometimes sneaking into our barracks in the middle of the night where we smashed them with our boots.

Our small expedition of a dozen or so archaeological professors and students shared only one toilet, built in the Arab style, a porcelain grid in the dirt with only a hose to wash away our waste. The foreign food was problematic for most of us and so there was always a line of uncomfortably shifting people waiting for a turn inside the outhouse. One time, I sneaked onto the top of the Tel in the dark of the night to urinate, and discovered to my horror that I was squatting in the middle of a line of marching ants a meter wide! It was all I could do not to scream and alert the entire camp, as I jumped about and shook the biting ants from my pant-legs.

Despite the heat, we women workers did not uncover our wrists or ankles, nor expose our throats because we were told it might offend the Muslim workmen who labored alongside us. My hair was bound up in a keffiyeh or hijab which helped prevent the sun from burning my scalp.

We played volleyball with the Syrian and Kurdish workmen, who were distracted at first by the western women playing with them and seemed afraid to hit the ball, but, upon realizing that the women were winning too many games, they decided to play with us just as they played with the other men, punching and slapping the ball back and forth across the net. There, I saw a handsome Kurdish man holding his delicate, blond-haired daughter astride his neck, his surprising blue eyes filled with pride and love.

And now I wonder, what will become of all of that?

I have no words for the heartbreak I feel.

Originally Posted by Deborski

I have fond memories of Syria...

Is it your own story, do I get it right? Have you been to Syria? Sorry, I've never known that.

Originally Posted by Боб Уайтман

Is it your own story, do I get it right? Have you been to Syria? Sorry, I've never known that.

Yes, my own experiences. I served on an archaeological expedition to Syria in 1987.

Nobody from the outside world said back then, in 2011, "Assad, you're a dictator and we're gonna bomb you"; it was the Syrian people themselves who ultimately got fed up with that hypocritical authoritarian rule who declared war on the regime; a few weeks of those protests made it evident that the regime had become totally unwelcome there; if it wasn't such a bad dictatorship, that would've been enough for that "government" to go away; instead, they started waging a war against their own people ultimately killing over 100,000 civilians as of now; there's already no that Syria that somebody keeps warm memories of, because it has been destroyed by its dictatorial rule; now it's just time to stop the dictator felons from their further crimes, and do some sort of justice on them for what they already have done.

Originally Posted by Eric C.

Nobody from the outside world said back then, in 2011, "Assad, you're a dictator and we're gonna bomb you"; it was the Syrian people themselves who ultimately got fed up with that hypocritical authoritarian rule who declared war on the regime; a few weeks of those protests made it evident that the regime had become totally unwelcome there; if it wasn't such a bad dictatorship, that would've been enough for that "government" to go away; instead, they started waging a war against their own people ultimately killing over 100,000 civilians as of now; there's already no that Syria that somebody keeps warm memories of, because it has been destroyed by its dictatorial rule; now it's just time to stop the dictator felons from their further crimes, and do some sort of justice on them for what they already have done.

The rebels are not exactly good guys either, Eric. For starters, the rebel movement has been co-opted by Al Qaeda and Al Nusra. Secondarily, the UN investigation so far reveals that it was the rebels - and not Assad - who used sarin gas. And lastly, the rebels engaged in acts of cannibalism - ripping the organs out of their enemies and eating their hearts and intestines.

I cannot begin to comprehend why the US is supporting these people. It's absolutely horrifying. I did not vote for Obama because I wanted to see another repeat of George W. Bush's actions in Iraq.

And in other news, those beautiful ruins of Palmyra which I described earlier are already swarming with soldiers and tanks. Ancient antiquities have been destroyed, and an ancient Roman temple has been shelled. The ruins withstood thousands of years of history and could very well be WIPED OUT in an instant during this modern conflict.

Originally Posted by Deborski

The rebels are not exactly good guys either, Eric. For starters, the rebel movement has been co-opted by Al Qaeda and Al Nusra. Secondarily, the UN investigation so far reveals that it was the rebels - and not Assad - who used sarin gas. And lastly, the rebels engaged in acts of cannibalism - ripping the organs out of their enemies and eating their hearts and intestines.

I cannot begin to comprehend why the US is supporting these people. It's absolutely horrifying. I did not vote for Obama because I wanted to see another repeat of George W. Bush's actions in Iraq.

Well, the way things are going now, I'm inclined to believe some of the sources that depict the rebels as monsters like that. But were they always like that? Do you remember how the whole thing was starting 2 years ago? There wasn't any "rebellion" back then; there were peaceful demonstrations held by completely unarmed people, typically on Fridays; every demonstration had several to several dozen people killed! Whose hands was that blood on? There were no "terrorists" or "Al-Qaeda rebels" at that point, and the dictatorial government didn't even seem to be bothered hiding evidence that it was their soldiers who shot people; now, if you cannot peacefully fight for your rights (or they'll kill you), do you have much of a choice? Anything but starting an armed fight for your rights and dignity? That was how the rebellion started.

It's very sad that now, there are lots of war criminals and provokers there who pretend to be "rebels"; I'm sure enough there wasn't much of them 1-1.5 years ago; anyway, I think the "true rebels", those who fight for their rights and freedom against the dictatorial regime are real heroes, and helping them will help their country, eventually.

Originally Posted by Eric C.

Well, the way things are going now, I'm inclined to believe some of the sources that depict the rebels as monsters like that. But were they always like that? Do you remember how the whole thing was starting 2 years ago? There wasn't any "rebellion" back then; there were peaceful demonstrations held by completely unarmed people, typically on Fridays; every demonstration had several to several dozen people killed! Whose hands was that blood on? There were no "terrorists" or "Al-Qaeda rebels" at that point, and the dictatorial government didn't even seem to be bothered hiding evidence that it was their soldiers who shot people; now, if you cannot peacefully fight for your rights (or they'll kill you), do you have much of a choice? Anything but starting an armed fight for your rights and dignity? That was how the rebellion started.

It's very sad that now, there are lots of war criminals and provokers there who pretend to be "rebels"; I'm sure enough there wasn't much of them 1-1.5 years ago; anyway, I think the "true rebels", those who fight for their rights and freedom against the dictatorial regime are real heroes, and helping them will help their country, eventually.

In the beginning, the rebels asked the UN for a no-fly zone. They were denied. So Al Qaeda stepped in to help them because no one else did. At least that is my understanding from talking with a friend of mine from Syria, whose husband has been volunteering in the refugee camps. But even she tells me that the rebels do not want America to get involved militarily.

If we want to help people, we should send food, medical aid, blankets, tents... whatever we can do to help anyone who is suffering. But military involvement will not bring an end to all the bloodshed. It will only worsen the situation, if what the majority of analysts say is true.

Originally Posted by Deborski

In the beginning, the rebels asked the UN for a no-fly zone. They were denied. So Al Qaeda stepped in to help them because no one else did. At least that is my understanding from talking with a friend of mine from Syria, whose husband has been volunteering in the refugee camps. But even she tells me that the rebels do not want America to get involved militarily.

If we want to help people, we should send food, medical aid, blankets, tents... whatever we can do to help anyone who is suffering. But military involvement will not bring an end to all the bloodshed. It will only worsen the situation, if what the majority of analysts say is true.

The people should ultimately defeat the regime though... I'm not sure what exact help that will take, but it occurs to me that just food and clothes won't be sufficient (they'll be helping people survive, but that war might never end that way)

Cheat Sheet On Syria: Events Are Moving Quickly Now… Here’s What You Need to Know

This article did an excellent job of summing up all the reasons why a military intervention is an incredibly BAD idea. Each of the reasons given has links to supporting information provided in the article, which states:

Bombing Syria will only strengthen the hardliners … and harm America’s national security. The top U.S. military commander says that attacking Syria would be risky and expensive

A Syrian war could be one of the least popular wars in American history

In fact, most of the world is against attacking Syria

War against Syria could spike oil prices and plunge us back into another recession

Russia has repeatedly stated that it would consider an attack on Syria as an attack on its national security. China has also strongly cautioned the U.S. against attacking Syria. China and Russia hold alot of U.S. debt, and could make life difficult for us economically if we unnecessarily anger them

Experts have – so far – expressed doubts that chemical weapons were actually used

The American government – in a replay of the Iraq war – is trying to stop UN weapons inspectors from seeing if chemical weapons were used

If chemical weapons were used, it’s unclear who used them

The U.S. has repeatedly falsely accused others of using chemical weapons

The Syrian rebels have – apparently – previously used chemical weapons

The U.S. has been backing Al Qaeda and other known terrorists in Syria

A former Democratic Congressman said that a U.S. strike on Syria would make America “Al Qaeda’s Air Force“

The U.S., Britain and Israel have used chemical weapons within the last 10 years

“Humanitarian” wars usually don’t turn out very well

Attacking Syria without Congressional approval would be unconstitutional

The U.S. and Britain considered attacking Syrians and then blaming it on the Syrian government as an excuse for regime change … 50 years ago (the U.S. just admitted that they did this to Iran)

The U.S. has been planning regime change in Syria for 20 years straight

The U.S. has been arming the Syrian opposition since 2006

America is not involved in Syria because that country poses a threat to America’s security … but for entirely different reasons

Many see the timing of the Syria crisis as an attack by the U.S. government to distract from its domestic scandals. If you need a reminder about what’s going on inside our country, here’s a cheat sheet on spying.

Ten years ago the US battled against Al Qaeda in Afganistan. Now the US will fight alongside Al Qaeda in Syria. Looks like Obama wasn't quite satisfed with his Nobel prize after all.

Originally Posted by DrBaldhead

Ten years ago the US battled against Al Qaeda in Afganistan. Now the US will fight alongside Al Qaeda in Syria. Looks like Obama wasn't quite satisfed with his Nobel prize after all.

If he invades Syria, then I think his Nobel prize should be rescinded. As for US relationship with Al Qaeda? It goes back a long way, as does the US relationship with the Taliban. It appears that America calls them "freedom fighters" or "terrorists" - depending on the situation.

osama.jpg

For example, this photo from the early 1990's depicts Osama Bin Laden as "warrior for peace" following the end of the Soviet/Afghan war. Taliban were "freedom fighters" when they were killing Russians. Then, after 9/11 they became "terrorists" because they killed Americans.

In my view, they were always terrorists. And most Americans do not seem to understand that the Soviets were *invited* by the Afghan government to put down an insurrection. They think that the Soviets "invaded" Afghanistan, which is patently not true.

Originally Posted by Deborski

If he invades Syria, then I think his Nobel prize should be rescinded..

He should never have had it in the first place! I have no idea why he got it.. He's killed a lot more people than Bin Laden, just as a comparison.

Imo, the reason he even got it, was a bunch of Norwegians on the Nobel Prize comittee wanting to demonstrate their outstanding political correctness - I think he got it because of his skin colour; they were just excited and thought it was a big milestone (which it was). But his war record is actually worse than Bush!









In the UK, even the policians are waking up to the insanity of the proposition to invade Syria.

I mean, the darn Iraq war just ended and the UK still has tens of thousands of guys in Afghanistan.

And all the papers are running stories about "We lost in Afghanistan" and "We made it worse in Iraq".... (both of which are undeniably true).

The other thing that people need to be clear on, is that this is about two objectives:

1) Get rid of a government that isn't pro-Western (but is in fact quite good by Middle Eastern standards).

2) Pave the way for invading Iran.


Syria had been opening up, essentially doing market reforms, and "perestroika" for over a decade. There was already a softening up taking place. Many of those who initially supported the rebels have changed back to supporting the government when they see what kinds of people the rebels are (foreign jihadists!)

This country has been set up, cheated, manipulated and raped. Such a tragedy.
At least let's not start bombing them too!

Apparently, I am not the only one who thinks Obama's Nobel Peace prize should be rescinded if he invades Syria.

Obama should be stripped of his Nobel Peace prize if he starts Syria war — RT Op-Edge

George Carlin would certainly not approve of invading Syria!