Thread: Atomic Bombing on the cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki

Originally Posted by Maslan

i saw this discussion so i've decided to post my opinion.

1- Jews has the right to live as arabs , in islam the god has ordered muslims to bring peace if their enimies wanted peace.
2- Jews hurted arabs, do any one accept his country to be conquered, do any american here accept any other nation to take his lands, u will replay no, that's what the vitnamese did.
3- USA is not an enemy to islam nor a friend to israel, usa has no roots, its a nation that was formed from all the nations. usa are arabs are jewish are christians .... so u should blam the arabs not take high locations"job" in usa, they just do nothing.
4- Israel is different than Jewish, Jewish are normal people and every one has the right to choose his relegion, but israel is the enemy of the arabs.

Some of my comments in response to True Arab might have appeared as triumphantly supporting Israel's existence. I did not intend this. I was just a bit annoyed with some of his views and may have expressed myself a bit clumsily. My point was that Israel exists now, and is a reality that Arabs must come to terms with. Continually trying to destroy Israel has only succeeded in making matters worse for the Palestinians and talking about Israel's destruction only plays into the hands of the right-wingers and religious extremists within Israel as it allows them to continually portray themselves as the victims, the vulnerable oasis of democracy surrounded by aggressive despotic Arab regimes. This line goes down extremely well with the political class in the US and leads them to ignore the injustices and suffering that Israel is inflicting every day on the Palestinians in the occupied territories. I think most ordinary Palestinians would be happy if they could get the Israeli army out of the West Bank and East Jerusalem and see most if not all of the settlements there dismantled so they could have their own state and live in peace. This is a reasonable and just objective. Talking about obliterating a state with 6 million people that has nuclear weapons and supremely powerful conventional military forces doesn't seem very sensible to me, and that's before we even begin to talk about the morality (or rather lack of) of such a policy. It is also not a position that will ever find wide support or sympathy in Europe or the US.

Originally Posted by Maslan

finally i'm dreaming of the world as one and only one country, but who cares.

I couldn't agree with you more. Here's to belonging to the human nation first, and all others second. A naive dream though sadly, it seems to me most people will always need to cling on to narrow tribal notions of identity in order to satisfy their yearning to belong to something beyond themselves.

Originally Posted by Vesh

Originally Posted by Maslan

2- Jews hurted arabs, do any one accept his country to be conquered, do any american here accept any other nation to take his lands, u will replay no, that's what the vitnamese did.

Do you know what countries prevented Arab Palestinial state from being created in 1948?

Good point Vesh! If the Arab states had accepted the reasonable division of land envisaged in the UN plan, there would be no Palestinian refugee camps and a much larger Palestinian state in existence. The "Death to Israel" policy didn't work then and it won't work now. This sort of extremism is leading everyone down a blind alley.

Originally Posted by Cyphyr

most ordinary Palestinians would be happy if they could get the Israeli army out of the West Bank and East Jerusalem and see most if not all of the settlements there dismantled so they could have their own state and live in peace. This is a reasonable and just objective.

Oh really? Firstly the army has to be there as long as Arabs are attacking Israelis. Secondly, don't you think that there is a double standard here that you are overlooking? Arabs are perfectly welcome to live with Israelis. Why is it that the few Jews in Gaza are being kicked out and their chuches being destroyed? Imagine the uproar if it was mosques that were being destroyed? Are Arabs racist then? Probably not because this is about religion not race and especially not about land. Think about it! If all Israelis became muslims this conflict between Arabs and Israelis would not exist, it would simply vanish. Arabs will not tolerate Israel's existence simply because it is not muslim. Arafat said that he would not stop fighting until Israel was destroyed.

Yet there is a growing amount of people who are believing that Arabs are the good guys here or are neutral on this. I find this incredible! As it was once written, that, "in the End Good shall be counted for Evil and Evil shall be counted for Good.'

I fear that each generation dies with the knowlege that the comming generations will only be more stupid than the previous.

Originally Posted by Vesh

Originally Posted by Maslan

2- Jews hurted arabs, do any one accept his country to be conquered, do any american here accept any other nation to take his lands, u will replay no, that's what the vitnamese did.

Do you know what countries prevented Arab Palestinial state from being created in 1948?

Prevented Arab Palestinial state from being created, That reality is that the land is an arabic land, the land belongs to the arabs and israel is the conqueror. but we have to deal with the reality that israel exists. we should look at today not yesterday.
humans are a stupid creatures, they fought each others while they are brothers.
i'm against any war.

Originally Posted by DDT

Originally Posted by Cyphyr

most ordinary Palestinians would be happy if they could get the Israeli army out of the West Bank and East Jerusalem and see most if not all of the settlements there dismantled so they could have their own state and live in peace. This is a reasonable and just objective.

Oh really? Firstly the army has to be there as long as Arabs are attacking Israelis. Secondly, don't you think that there is a double standard here that you are overlooking? Arabs are perfectly welcome to live with Israelis. Why is it that the few Jews in Gaza are being kicked out and their chuches being destroyed? Imagine the uproar if it was mosques that were being destroyed? Are Arabs racist then? Probably not because this is about religion not race and especially not about land. Think about it! If all Israelis became muslims this conflict between Arabs and Israelis would not exist, it would simply vanish. Arabs will not tolerate Israel's existence simply because it is not muslim. Arafat said that he would not stop fighting until Israel was destroyed.

Yet there is a growing amount of people who are believing that Arabs are the good guys here or are neutral on this. I find this incredible! As it was once written, that, "in the End Good shall be counted for Evil and Evil shall be counted for Good.'

I fear that each generation dies with the knowlege that the comming generations will only be more stupid than the previous.

DDT, I don't know whether you really believe this stuff or are just trying to wind folks like me up. You've argued some pretty crazy things in the past, like the Barbary pirates were actually Islamist fighters (You produced a link insinuating this, then when I challenged you, you proceeded to post another link which contradicted the first and actually supported my view! ). But trying to link Einstein to Creationism/Intelligent Design Theory was just hilarious! I'm finding it incredibly hard to take you seriously after that, but I fear you probably do believe this anti-Arab, anti-Muslim tripe.

So your sympathies lie with the poor put-upon settlers? Well, I can perhaps feel some sympathy for economic settlers who went there because of government incentives and perhaps to improve their living conditions but I certainly don't feel any sympathy for the ideological settlers (the majority) who don't give a damn for the sufferings of the Arab population around them. They are there to drive out the Palestinians and claim the land that "God gave to them". They're not a particularly nice bunch of people. In Hebron for example where 7000 Jewish settlers dominate the centre of a city with a population of 130,000 Palestinians, they have daubed the walls of much of the ancient bazar with racist hate-filled graffiti. They also pour boiling water and throw rocks at the Arabs on the streets below. About 1000 Israeli soldiers are in place there to protect the settlers and they constantly check, harass and humiliate the local Arab population. On the 25th of February 1994, one of these settlers, Baruch Goldstein, walked into the Mosque in the centre of the town and went on a killing spree killing 29 people and injuring more than a hundred. In was in the aftermath of this atrocity that Hamas embarked on a campaign of suicide bombing within Israel. I'm not saying this was a justified response, but Goldstein's attack created the climate for this degree of savage brutality to develop. If you get the chance, I suggest you look at the excellent series "The Cult of the Suicide Bomber" which was screened on Channel 4 in the UK recently. It traces the evolution of this deadly cultural virus over the last 25 years. This was a crucial point in its development.

In short, the presence of these intolerant religious extremists in the midst of deprived Palestinian neighbourhoods has drastically exacerbated the Arab-Israeli conflict and made the whole world a much more dangerous place as a result. Palestinian homes are being bulldozed to make way for new settlements all the time and they are being pushed into smaller and smaller scraps of territory. The following map should make it quite clear what is going on in the West Bank. The brown areas are the increasingly shrinking Palestinian lands. If they continue their present policy they will turn these into nothing more than open prisons or ghettos. In many cases, that is what they have become.



The full size map in pdf format can be found at the link below.
http://www.btselem.org/Download/Sepa...er_Map_Eng.pdf

If Israel is so intent on retaining the territories it won in the 1967 war, then it should give Israeli citizenship to the Arabs who live there. But it won't do that, it wants the land but it doesn't want the people, because there would no longer be a Jewish majority within the state in that scenario. The only fair arrangement in the light of that consideration is the creation of a viable Palestinian state, but that is becoming impossible because of the settlement activity.

Of course, all of this doesn't make a blind bit of difference to you DDT, as you're wedded to this idea that the Arabs are all bad and the Israelis are all innocent victims incapable of doing anything wrong. I guess it doesn't really matter because you're just an ordinary guy like me who has no political power over all of this. Unfortunately, many in the current US administration hold views not that dissimilar to your own and they are not making this world any safer with their policies.

Originally Posted by Maslan

Originally Posted by Vesh

Originally Posted by Maslan

2- Jews hurted arabs, do any one accept his country to be conquered, do any american here accept any other nation to take his lands, u will replay no, that's what the vitnamese did.

Do you know what countries prevented Arab Palestinial state from being created in 1948?

Prevented Arab Palestinial state from being created, That reality is that the land is an arabic land, the land belongs to the arabs and israel is the conqueror.

Another question: Do you know when there was Arab state on this land?

Originally Posted by Vesh

Originally Posted by Maslan

Originally Posted by Vesh

Originally Posted by Maslan

2- Jews hurted arabs, do any one accept his country to be conquered, do any american here accept any other nation to take his lands, u will replay no, that's what the vitnamese did.

Do you know what countries prevented Arab Palestinial state from being created in 1948?

Prevented Arab Palestinial state from being created, That reality is that the land is an arabic land, the land belongs to the arabs and israel is the conqueror.

Another question: Do you know when there was Arab state on this land?

A very simple answer arab was their even before the islam, revise ur history before posting.

Originally Posted by Maslan

Originally Posted by Vesh

Originally Posted by Maslan

Originally Posted by Vesh

Originally Posted by Maslan

2- Jews hurted arabs, do any one accept his country to be conquered, do any american here accept any other nation to take his lands, u will replay no, that's what the vitnamese did.

Do you know what countries prevented Arab Palestinial state from being created in 1948?

Prevented Arab Palestinial state from being created, That reality is that the land is an arabic land, the land belongs to the arabs and israel is the conqueror.

Another question: Do you know when there was Arab state on this land?

A very simple answer arab was their even before the islam, revise ur history before posting.

Another question: Do you know when there was Arab state on this land?

[quote=Vesh]

Originally Posted by Maslan

Originally Posted by Vesh

Originally Posted by Maslan

Originally Posted by Vesh

Originally Posted by "Maslan":co7n1l6y

2- Jews hurted arabs, do any one accept his country to be conquered, do any american here accept any other nation to take his lands, u will replay no, that's what the vitnamese did.

Do you know what countries prevented Arab Palestinial state from being created in 1948?

Prevented Arab Palestinial state from being created, That reality is that the land is an arabic land, the land belongs to the arabs and israel is the conqueror.

Another question: Do you know when there was Arab state on this land?

A very simple answer arab was their even before the islam, revise ur history before posting.

Another question: Do you know when there was Arab state on this land?[/quote:co7n1l6y]

Very simple answer : Muslim Arab armies invaded Palestine and captured Jerusalem in AD 638 .

Originally Posted by Maslan

Very simple answer : Muslim Arab armies invaded Palestine and captured Jerusalem in AD 638 .

And in 1516-1517 they were defeated by Turks. And there were no Arab state on this land ever since.

Originally Posted by Vesh

Originally Posted by Maslan

Very simple answer : Muslim Arab armies invaded Palestine and captured Jerusalem in AD 638 .

And in 1516-1517 they were defeated by Turks. And there were no Arab state on this land ever since.

No ur simply wrong:
Arabs has been defeated but in 1831-1840 AD : Muhammad Ali, the modernizing viceroy of Egypt, expanded his rule to Palestine . His policies modified the feudal order, increased agriculture, and improved education.
u should consider this link http://www.palestinehistory.com/history.htm

OK, OK, I'm wrong, 9 years 1831-1840 of Arab state. Not too long though.

Originally Posted by Vesh

OK, OK, I'm wrong, 9 years 1831-1840 of Arab state. Not too long though.

yes you are probably right, but the people their were arabs, they talked arabic, and most of them were muslims.
don't forget saladin at the Battle of Hattin where he captured Jerusalem in 1187.( i know that was before, but it really affected palastene as most of them became arab and muslims till the british conquered it).
and AFAIK turks were mostly muslims.

So, we agreed that since 1517 there were no Arab state on this land except for 9 years 1831-1840. Why do you claim this land as Arab land?

This thread has just been downgraded from 'deplorable' to 'abysmal.'



Since American president Woodrow Wilson's Fourteen Points (191, all the world's great nations and even many of the world's crappy nations have (in principle, anyway) defended the eternal rights of national self-determination and home rule. The political history of Palestine bears no consequence to these rights. Illegitimate and/or unjust r

Maslan has already conceeded that Arabs conquered and stole this land called Israel in 638 AD. That should be enough to show that it is not truely Arab land to any reasonable mind. There were still some Jews living there in 638 AD too. There has always been some Jewish presence there. Jerusalem has only ever been the capital of one nation in all history, and that is Israel.

The Arabs who now call themselves Palestinians have never had their own country or government or a even a capital city.There is and never was a race of people called Palestinian. So why give them Israel? Why give them any part of Jerusalem. It is not theirs.

The Jews, he rightful owners have claimed it and already posess it, or most of it. Palestinians should be thankful that Israel doesn't kill them all, because if the shoe were on the other foot the Arabs would have gladly killed all the Jews in Israel. Arab leadership have so stated that they intend to do so.

Israel is the only fully democratic nation in the middle east. That is why the West supports Israel. She is the light of all the nations around her. Israel promotes individual freedom, womens equallity and religious tolerance. No other nations around her do this. Yet some here in the west refuse to support Israel and at the same time would never even consider the notion of so much as visiting in any Arab nation for fear of their own safety and well being.

Israel has shown more than enough restraint in dealing with its' Palestinian community. Israel could have bulldozed them all across the Jordan by now but instead, in desperation chose to put a wall up to keep them from sending their murderous rebels in to shopping malls to kill and maime children. And so now, some people insist on calling the Jews inhuman for costructing the wall. Preposturous!

Originally Posted by Vesh

So, we agreed that since 1517 there were no Arab state on this land except for 9 years 1831-1840. Why do you claim this land as Arab land?

if Palestene is not occupied by arabs this doesn't mean that it isn't an arabic land. the Palestenian people are muslim arabs themselves.
let's consider Palestine an american land, do american people accept the jewish to form their country on american lands ?
this the same, i'm not with palestine as arabs but as normal people whatever they are this is the native Palestinian land not arabs, so they have right to defend their home and jewish in this case are enemies.
so if think of it without looking for relegions or arabs, just look at palestine as palestinian people not arab or else, just the people, the truth is that palestine is a property of it's native Palestinian wether they are arabs or not, and jews han't the right to take Palestine lands.

you guys here are holding on your ideas only. i'm not with any relegion or so, but u Vesh are with jewish and true_arab with arabs.
think of my neutral words, u will know that i'm right.
that's all what i got and remember we are all humans

Originally Posted by DDT

Maslan has already conceeded that Arabs conquered and stole this land called Israel in 638 AD. That should be enough to show that it is not truely Arab land to any reasonable mind. There were still some Jews living there in 638 AD too. There has always been some Jewish presence there. Jerusalem has only ever been the capital of one nation in all history, and that is Israel.

The Arabs who now call themselves Palestinians have never had their own country or government or a even a capital city.There is and never was a race of people called Palestinian. So why give them Israel? Why give them any part of Jerusalem. It is not theirs.

The Jews, he rightful owners have claimed it and already posess it, or most of it. Palestinians should be thankful that Israel doesn't kill them all, because if the shoe were on the other foot the Arabs would have gladly killed all the Jews in Israel. Arab leadership have so stated that they intend to do so.

Israel is the only fully democratic nation in the middle east. That is why the West supports Israel. She is the light of all the nations around her. Israel promotes individual freedom, womens equallity and religious tolerance. No other nations around her do this. Yet some here in the west refuse to support Israel and at the same time would never even consider the notion of so much as visiting in any Arab nation for fear of their own safety and well being.

Israel has shown more than enough restraint in dealing with its' Palestinian community. Israel could have bulldozed them all across the Jordan by now but instead, in desperation chose to put a wall up to keep them from sending their murderous rebels in to shopping malls to kill and maime children. And so now, some people insist on calling the Jews inhuman for costructing the wall. Preposturous!

i will simply igonre all of this, please be realistic.
i will till u a something "Nations are just like birds a day up in the sky and a day under on the land".
Before Arabs were the most powerful nation like USA today. don't forgot saladin, muhammed ali, ...etc. then came other and other nations. some rise and some fall, till USA is the greatest one today. but believe me nothing remains. israel will not remain so. and in my personal opinion China will be the greatest soon.

thanks but i had to reply for this.

Originally Posted by DDT

Maslan has already conceeded that Arabs conquered and stole this land called Israel in 638 AD. That should be enough to show that it is not truely Arab land to any reasonable mind. There were still some Jews living there in 638 AD too. There has always been some Jewish presence there. Jerusalem has only ever been the capital of one nation in all history, and that is Israel.

And that is mythology.

Originally Posted by Jeff

Originally Posted by DDT

Maslan has already conceeded that Arabs conquered and stole this land called Israel in 638 AD. That should be enough to show that it is not truely Arab land to any reasonable mind. There were still some Jews living there in 638 AD too. There has always been some Jewish presence there. Jerusalem has only ever been the capital of one nation in all history, and that is Israel.

And that is mythology.

Then u r both wrong.
if think this way , then america should be america it should be for the native american.