Thread: Atomic Bombing on the cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki

Originally Posted by Dmov

I think the nation that's responsible for Dresden, Nagasaki, Vietnam, Iraq and many others war crimes and massacres deserves its own Nuremberg...

That would mean that you would have to put most of the world on trial because including the U.N.

Anyone remember this song?...

Listen, children, to a story
That was written long ago,
'Bout a kingdom on a mountain
And the valley-folk below.

On the mountain was a treasure
Buried deep beneath the stone,
And the valley-people swore
They'd have it for their very own.

Go ahead and hate your neighbor,
Go ahead and cheat a friend.
Do it in the name of Heaven,
You can justify it in the end.
There won't be any trumpets blowing
Come the judgement day,
On the bloody morning after....
One tin soldier rides away.

So the people of the valley
Sent a message up the hill,
Asking for the buried treasure,
Tons of gold for which they'd kill.

Came an answer from the kingdom,
"With our brothers we will share
All the secrets of our mountain,
All the riches buried there."

Go ahead and hate your neighbor,
Go ahead and cheat a friend.
Do it in the name of Heaven,
You can justify it in the end.
There won't be any trumpets blowing
Come the judgement day,
On the bloody morning after....
One tin soldier rides away.

Now the valley cried with anger,
"Mount your horses! Draw your sword!"
And they killed the mountain-people,
So they won their just reward.

Now they stood beside the treasure,
On the mountain, dark and red.
Turned the stone and looked beneath it...
"Peace on Earth" was all it said.

Go ahead and hate your neighbor,
Go ahead and cheat a friend.
Do it in the name of Heaven,
You can justify it in the end.
There won't be any trumpets blowing
Come the judgement day,
On the bloody morning after....
One tin soldier rides away.

(by Lambert-Potter, sung by Coven)

I felt like sharing this today, in this thread.
For all of us...especially True Arab and myself.

Originally Posted by a true arab

I know my nation and we do not care about the whole world if it is a matter of homeland and brothers.

Originally Posted by a true arab

THe only thing here s that Zionists are always living in terror because they are bunch of outlaws realising that what ever they do there will be a judgement day.

Originally Posted by a true arab

You are not up to tell us about our rights. Our land is occupied and we will take it back as long as we are after that. Palestinians are the real land owners and what you call state of Israel is just a colonization community that will be vanished as soon as possible.

It's now abundantly clear you're a hate-filled bigot, convinced that your own nation or faith can do no wrong and only prepared to believe what you want to believe. I've met your type before, whether Christian, Muslim, Jew or whatever you happen to be, your type are all the same below the surface, cut from the same cloth, all so sure you're right and with a wildly exaggerated sense of your own importance. What's hilarious is the way you just blindly soak up whatever rubbish suits your prejudices, this conspiracy, that conspiracy, this wacky theory, that crazy story. Anything as long as it makes you feel more secure about your beliefs and certain of your righteousness. What it really displays, however, is your deep insecurity and weak character, the complete inability to face up to your own failings and a desperate need to identify yourself with the group and ensure that the group always appears right in your mind.

Originally Posted by a true arab

I think you are so poor in History. Remember that your ancestor CRUSADERS hase occupied Palestine for more than 90 years, and we took it back. "by the GREAT HERO SALAHUDDEEN".

What are you talking about? my ancestor Crusaders?? I suppose I shouldn't be surprised that you are incapable of distinguishing the individual from the collective. Because I happen to be born and live in a predominately Christian country, I am lumped in with the Christian group. Well, I'm not religious and don't consider myself a Christian but I guess I'm labelled as Christian in your mind whether I like it or not.

I can see on the basis of your comments, that there is no point wasting any more time arguing with you. Your views regarding Jews are deeply repugnant and as close to Nazism as I have heard in some time. I only hope that some day you will learn to see people as individuals and not hold such hatred in your heart.

Originally Posted by Cyphyr

Originally Posted by a true arab

I only hope that some day you will learn to see people as individuals and not hold such hatred in your heart.

I must agree.

Originally Posted by DDT

If you put it that way, I see your point. War or even violence is a terror in of itself. I suppose you could say that we tried to scare (terrorize)the Japanese into surrendering. So I guess I really dont know what we are debating about.

*drool* you are SO close, DDT. Now you need to repeat after me: The aromic bombs dropped on Hiroshima were terrorist acts.

btw, war and violence are not terror in itself. There are nuances to this. Terrorism is NOT killing Soldier A before he kills you, but IS killing baby A to make Soldier A scared.

Originally Posted by Dmov

I think the nation that's responsible for Dresden, Nagasaki, Vietnam, Iraq and many others war crimes and massacres deserves its own Nuremberg...

I disagree. Nations are not put on trials, people are. You can not punish the people of today for what occured 60 years ago. You can only punish those who comitted them.

Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie

Originally Posted by Dmov

I think the nation that's responsible for Dresden, Nagasaki, Vietnam, Iraq and many others war crimes and massacres deserves its own Nuremberg...

I disagree. Nations are not put on trials, people are. You can not punish the people of today for what occured 60 years ago. You can only punish those who comitted them.

I have disagreed with several of your statements in various posts...but this, I must agree with...it is true and right.

But I would add this...you cannot punish those who follow orders, as those are people who believe they are doing good. Instead, those who issue orders. But...even those people...do you give them no forgiveness?

Originally Posted by Dobry

Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie

Originally Posted by Dmov

I think the nation that's responsible for Dresden, Nagasaki, Vietnam, Iraq and many others war crimes and massacres deserves its own Nuremberg...

I disagree. Nations are not put on trials, people are. You can not punish the people of today for what occured 60 years ago. You can only punish those who comitted them.

I have disagreed with several of your statements in various posts...but this, I must agree with...it is true and right.

But I would add this...you cannot punish those who follow orders, as those are people who believe they are doing good. Instead, those who issue orders. But...even those people...do you give them no forgiveness?

It is too easy to blanket the question with "you cannot punish those who follow orders", it is way too general. If your order is to rape a 10-year old boy, then it is your moral duty to deny. Everything has its limits. Besides, everybody is indirectly following orders of the president/dictator/fuhrer/whatever, should only that person be punished?

Forgivness is a great thing to give, and therefore should be used wisely and give to only those who are worthy. I can't forgive Hitler for his orders to exterminate the Jews, if you do, you are condoning that action!

Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie

It is too easy to blanket the question with "you cannot punish those who follow orders", it is way too general. If your order is to rape a 10-year old boy, then it is your moral duty to deny.

You have never been with the military, have you?

He probly hasnt but theres also some thing i forget in the military what its called, and you dont have to obey orders if it 1) Puts your life directly in danger. (Put this gun in your mouth and pull the trigger, thats an order! For example...)

2) at least in the american military, im pretty sure u cant order people to rape other people...

In the American military they have a system where you can report your superior officers. During basic training if a drill sergeant gets in your face too much all you have to do is hold up this yellow card then hes required to stop being so hard on you.

Originally Posted by Joel

In the American military they have a system where you can report your superior officers. During basic training if a drill sergeant gets in your face too much all you have to do is hold up this yellow card then hes required to stop being so hard on you.

Jeeze I hope not. That sounds like the sissifying of the American soldier.

Originally Posted by DDT

Originally Posted by Joel

In the American military they have a system where you can report your superior officers. During basic training if a drill sergeant gets in your face too much all you have to do is hold up this yellow card then hes required to stop being so hard on you.

Jeeze I hope not. That sounds like the sissifying of the American soldier.

I have to agree, but as far as I know it is true How can you expect to handle bullets being shot at you and grenades blowing up your buddies if you can't handle a few loud words?

Remember that scene where the mentally challenged dude shoots the sargeant dude in Full Metal Jacket? Maybe that's why?

But then again I'm sure not recruiting people with mental disabilities would fix that.

Maybe in the wussy army but in the marines you just have to take what they throw at you. My brother was platoon leader all through boot camp in the marines and, so he says, one day when they were all writing letters, this guy was supposed to go and do something but he didnt and then so my brother, so he says... Kicked him when he was writing and broke some of his ribs.

No 'yellowcards' allowed. HAAHAH GET IT ? Cuz the band yellowcard sucks!

Originally Posted by Dogboy182

He probly hasnt but theres also some thing i forget in the military what its called, and you dont have to obey orders if it 1) Puts your life directly in danger. (Put this gun in your mouth and pull the trigger, thats an order! For example...)

2) at least in the american military, im pretty sure u cant order people to rape other people...

If you disobey an order, however unlawful this order is, especially during a war, in American army you get court-marshaled, in Russian army you simply get shot.

Originally Posted by Vesh

Originally Posted by Dogboy182

He probly hasnt but theres also some thing i forget in the military what its called, and you dont have to obey orders if it 1) Puts your life directly in danger. (Put this gun in your mouth and pull the trigger, thats an order! For example...)

2) at least in the american military, im pretty sure u cant order people to rape other people...

If you disobey an order, however unlawful this order is, especially during a war, in American army you get court-marshaled, in Russian army you simply get shot.

Wow, was I ever s@#$-faced when I wrote my last post, responding to Vinnie. I saw it in the light of a clear-headed hangover and immediately thought, "did I really write that??"

Oh well, that'll teach me not to check the forum after a lengthy pub visit... but I'll stand with what I wrote.

Anyway...no, in the U.S. military you cannot be ordered to do something that is clearly immoral (i.e. rape, etc.) and you can refuse.

I guess the question becomes...when is an order "immoral"? When killing is involved, again in the heat of combat, that can be a very tough question to answer. It's not as easy as some people think it is.

My grandpa pushed prisoners out of a helicopter in Vietnam. He got a dishonorable discharge for it, but then it was changed to honorable after they realized he was crazy.

i saw this discussion so i've decided to post my opinion.

1- Jews has the right to live as arabs , in islam the god has ordered muslims to bring peace if their enimies wanted peace.
2- Jews hurted arabs, do any one accept his country to be conquered, do any american here accept any other nation to take his lands, u will replay no, that's what the vitnamese did.
3- USA is not an enemy to islam nor a friend to israel, usa has no roots, its a nation that was formed from all the nations. usa are arabs are jewish are christians .... so u should blam the arabs not take high locations"job" in usa, they just do nothing.
4- Israel is different than Jewish, Jewish are normal people and every one has the right to choose his relegion, but israel is the enemy of the arabs.
5- Don't forget that islam allows the muslim to marry a christian or a jewish.
6- The politics make your sight of view blind, we are all people we all came from adam and eve, we are brothers, many americans have arab friends ask them about arab people in reality, many of arabs have american friends ask them in reality, don't just watch the news, the politics the wars. we should see the person himself.
7- Japan deserves the nuclear bomb , do u know that they do the same to chinese people, they have killed the unarmed chinese people with no rights.

at last we shouldn't look at the past, don't let ur country leader moves u, u should do what u want.
finally i'm dreaming of the world as one and only one country, but who cares.

Originally Posted by Maslan

2- Jews hurted arabs, do any one accept his country to be conquered, do any american here accept any other nation to take his lands, u will replay no, that's what the vitnamese did.

Do you know what countries prevented Arab Palestinial state from being created in 1948?