Thread: Films & TV: Russian & Non - Q&As/Reviews/Links all in here!

Originally Posted by rockzmom

I read on Wiki that in 2009, a remastered and colorized version of "17" was released. Has anyone seen this version of it and if so, what did you think of it?

I didn't see it, but I've read Russian Wiki and aforementioned thread, and I have some "information to be pondered over."

First, the picture. They transferred it from 4:3 to 16:9. They did it by cutting out chunks of the picture at the top and at the bottom. The result looks like this (these are just samples):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyePEfKM ... r_embedded
I don't like it. The picture looks cramped, "stifled", if I may say so. I'm sure I would feel the discomfort throughout the whole film. It may not be a big deal for somebody who has never seen the original, though. Maybe.
The colour looks good, I must admit. But does it really contribute something or just ruins the mood? One must watch a considerable part of the film to answer that.

Second, and this is what I'm even more wary about, the content. They shortened the film. According to Wiki, they stamped especially hard on the "lyrical" content, pauses, things like that.
You see, I never thought of this film as an "action" film and I'm afraid that trying to make it one they might just kill it, at least for me.


All in all, I'm not going to watch it. I would give it a try, out of curiosity, if all they had done was colour.

Originally Posted by rockzmom

For starters...I need something like a "spy roster" cheat sheet (like a sports team lineup) to help me keep everyone straight.

I was never able to get all the intricacies of the plot. Nor did I try too hard. All I was interested in were characters, their predicaments, good, or bad, luck, the nerve strain.

Originally Posted by rockzmom

I took each line and put it into Google Translate!

Do you know that you could put the URL there and get the whole page translated at once?

Originally Posted by E-learner

Originally Posted by rockzmom

First, the picture. They transferred it from 4:3 to 16:9. They did it by cutting out chunks of the picture at the top and at the bottom.

Big deal. Sometimes they broadcast wide-screen movies transformed to 4:3 format. Faces look like this one in the vertical phase:
I would find the man who invented this idea and kill him against a wall

Originally Posted by E-learner

Originally Posted by rockzmom

For starters...I need something like a "spy roster" cheat sheet (like a sports team lineup) to help me keep everyone straight.

I was never able to get all the intricacies of the plot.

To get them you should read all the novels about Maxim Isaev written by Yulian Semenov (one of my favorite writers btw ). Apropos, if you read the books you'll find that Maxim Maximovich Isaev is also a pseudonym of the main hero (he used it when he was a V.CH.K. spy in the White army during the Civil war) and his real name is Vsevolod Vladimirov. In the novel "Bomb for a chairman" Shtirlitz (he is a 67 y.o. professor of Moscow University there) writes some letter and signs:"professor Isaev (Vladimirov)". Reminds something? . Here is the list of the novels (I'm not sure it's complete, but at least these I have on my bookshelf and read):
Бриллианты для диктатуры пролетариата / Diamonds for the dictatorship of the proletariat
The action takes place in 1920 mostly in Revel (modern Tallin). The plot is about Civil war, white emigration and so.
Пароль не нужен / Password is not needed
1922, the final year of Civil war. Venue is Russian Far East.
Испанский вариант / Spanish version
1938, Burgos (Spain). Maxim Isaev already becomes Shtirlitz here and fights on a Franco's side as a real Nazi.
Альтернатива / Alternative
1940, about Hitler invasion into Yugoslavia.
Третья карта / The third card
1941, about Nazi invasion into Ukraine and so-called "national liberation movement" in Ukraine. "The third card" is Stepan Bandera (In the meanig "one of the three Nazi's puppets in Ukraine").
Майор Вихрь / Mayor Vikhr' (Vortex).
1944, Poland. Shtirlitz and some guys from Soviet military intelligence service saves Poland city of Khrakov from the destruction while Nazi retreat. It's strange that in the Soviet movie Shtirlitz, one of the main characters, was cut out from the plot.
Семнадцать мгновений весны /Seventeen Moments of Spring
1945, well... you know .
Приказано выжить / Ordered to survive
1945,The direct sequel of Seventeen Moments of Spring. Shtirlitz caught and tortured by Gestapo, Muller and Bormann runs from defeated Germany to Argentina.
Бомба для преседателя / Bomb for a chairman
1967, West Berlin. Neo-Nazis are trying to get a nuke. We meet some old fiends here along with Shtirlitz : Aysmann and Holltoff. Aysmann who looks rather honorable in Seventeen Moments of Spring becomes ultimate evil and one the main villians.
Although all these books were written during Soviet times and have a touch of Soviet propaganda, they still remains very exciting. Btw, Yulian Semenov was one of very few writers who was admitted to the KGB archives while wrote these novels and many of the documents wich he explored still remain top-secret.

Originally Posted by rockzmom

So I am back to watching 17 Moments of Spring!

Comment:
Why is it that in this clip while Hitler is watching the news...

It's not Hitler. It's Reichsführer SS Heinrich Himmler:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_Himmler

I'm watching first season of Sledge Hammer.
Trust me. I know what I am doing.

Originally Posted by Basil77

Originally Posted by rockzmom

So I am back to watching 17 Moments of Spring!

Comment:
Why is it that in this clip while Hitler is watching the news...

It's not Hitler. It's Reichsführer SS Heinrich Himmler:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_Himmler

Yes, I stand corrected thank you. E-learner corrected me as well as another thread member via PM.

Not being defensive here; but in my defense, here was how I was actually watching all of part one and the first half of part two:

This is actual size of the DVD player I was using to watch the movie with the screen shot of the intro line for Himmler:


Here it is enlarged a little:


Here is a shot of the two of them watching the newsreels:


And here is my little player all packed up with it's remote control and my sunglasses next to it for size reference:


So, you can see, if I turned my head for one second, I would have missed who Himmler was as they had just come out of the briefing room with Hitler. While the photos do not show it, the quality is very good, just a compact size... which I need sometimes and the battery lasts for a good few hours.

Now, I have also learned that "American intelligence operative Allen Dulles" was the younger brother of John Foster Dulles. Which "our" Dulles Airport in Virginia is named after.

-----
New Questions .... In Part Three of the Movie...
In the flashback scene in the bar, who is with Stirlitz's wife?
What is Gabi's role all in all of this? Anything?

Also, I love how Stirlitz has those little, what I would now call, "House Moments." Like when he is playing chess and all of the sudden that look comes across his face and he magically has his answer.

Originally Posted by rockzmom

In the flashback scene in the bar, who is with Stirlitz's wife?

Well, Jazzlyn, I'll try to describe my point, despite my poor English. First of all, I'm not a big fan of the MOVIE (although I like the novel very much). You may call me some sort of sexual chauvinist, but I feel a very big defference between the novel (wich was written by a man named Yulian Semenov) and the movie (wich was directed by a woman named Tatyana Liosnova). Although the plot was almost untouched by the movie director, the movie has a strong feeling of the woman's hand touch. For example: the "wife" theme was made special for the movie. In the novels Shtirlitz just left some girl in Russia and there is not a word in them about they were married, although they had a son. And of course the whole episode with the wife looks logically srange, if you know the plot (according to the novels Shtirlitz left Russia and didn't saw her from 1922 (when he was 22 and she was about 17). Besides, I think it was, if to put it mildly, not typical for foreign intelligence services, especially for Soviet intelligence service of that time, to arrange such meetings, even for most precious agents, with some long-time-non-seen-relatives in such an original manner. Of course the scene is very touching and other that stuff, but imho it was more than unnecessary. And, to answer your question, most likely, it was supposed that this guy was some sort of escort from Soviet intelligence service.

What is Gabi's role all in all of this? Anything?

Gabi and frau Zaurrch just another background insertion special for the movie, just ignore them . Btw, the image of the strong-man-who-is-faithful-to-its-twenty-years-not-seen-wife is also created special for the movie. For example, in "Alternative" you can find Shtirlitz's far non-Platonic romance with some German countess, who was a member of anti-nazi movement.

Also, I love how Stirlitz has those little, what I would now call, "House Moments." Like when he is playing chess and all of the sudden that look comes across his face and he magically has his answer.

And these are good ones, I agree. I love them too. Especially the later ones, when he makes hedgehog and fox from matches in Gestapo jail while thinking.

Originally Posted by Basil77

And, to answer your question, most likely, it was supposed that this guy was some sort of escort from Soviet intelligence service.

Basil, your explaination was fantastic and this last part clears up the scene for me. I was not certian if she was cheating on him or also a double agent or what. So it was just a thing where they brought them "together" to let them "see" each other. Now I get it.

Originally Posted by Basil77

Gabi and frau Zaurrch just another background insertion special for the movie, just ignore them .

Will do, thanks.

Originally Posted by Basil77

And these are good ones, I agree. I love them too. Especially the later ones, when he makes hedgehog and fox from matches in Gestapo jail while thinking.

Ahhh, great.

-----
Next Question... open to all as I feel it does not have to do with the movie so much... more of personal habit, though it could be a character trait.

So, one more oddball question here and open for anyone... but I guess more for a person who smokes or used to smoke or has friends/parents who are smokers....

This is just again an observation and question at same time again and since I do not smoke is why I ask.

I noticed when Shtirlitz was in the bar waiting for his wife he used the matches and not the candle to light his cigarette. I mean if you have the candle already lit, why waste the matches, you never know when you might need them. So... can anyone tell me why a person selects a match, lighter, candle, gas flame from the stove... over the other? Does it give a different taste to the cigarette? Is it a habit thing? Or a smell of the sulfur thing? .... Or is this a character trait of Shtirlitz?

Originally Posted by rockzmom

I noticed when Shtirlitz was in the bar waiting for his wife he used the matches and not the candle to light his cigarette. I mean if you have the candle already lit, why waste the matches, you never know when you might need them. So... can anyone tell me why a person selects a match, lighter, candle, gas flame from the stove... over the other? Does it give a different taste to the cigarette? Is it a habit thing? Or a smell of the sulfur thing? .... Or is this a character trait of Shtirlitz?

Lighting cigarettes 20 times a day with matches you will use a match 21st time even having a candle. Besides other Germans who had seen him saving ONE MATCH supposed him to be a Jew

I really don't know why a Soviet spy believes in superstitions, but there really is a rather widespread superstition that lighting a cigarette from a candle will lead you to misfortune. Then perhaps, if you're a spy you'd better be on a safe side.

George and Ramil... Thanks for your thoughts on the cigarettes. Two very different points of views. If anyone one else still wants to chime in on that one, please do.


In the mean time... Different movie! New question!

I started to watch Master & Margarita at home BEFORE watching "17" yet when I went to watch it on my little DVD player, the DVD I had made would not work and the DVD with "17" would, so I switched movies that day. I don't think my poor brain can handle two long term series at once right now so I will have to wait until I finish "17" to get back to Master & Margarita.

.... While I have only finished part one, the opening theme song for Master & Margarita has caught my attention. Does anyone know what it is? Can anyone find it on YouTube, iTunes, Amazon or somewhere else for me? Lampada??? You are the music Queen of the boards... are you reading this thread these days??? Or is it a very famous song and all of ya'll know it right off the bat and can tell me?

Originally Posted by rockzmom

George and Ramil... Thanks for your thoughts on the cigarettes. Two very different points of views. If anyone one else still wants to chime in on that one, please do.

I agree with Studyr. If someone sitting in restaurant would light a cigarette with a candle, I think I'd find it strange. Like he's thinking of saving a match, really
I can add that I, too, was never be able to understand the plot of "17 Moments of Spring".
And I also find the "wife" scene stupid (ALTHOUGH Tikhonov plays it very very very well). Actually the whole country laughs at that scene.

Originally Posted by rockzmom

I started to watch Master & Margarita

I suppose you're watching Vladimir Bortko's version, not Yury Kara's one. I must say that "M&M" is one of my favourite novels, but I don't like Bortko's screen version.

Originally Posted by Оля

I can add that I, too, was never be able to understand the plot of "17 Moments of Spring".

Thanks! Now, I don't feel so stupid being lost and rewatching some of the scenes over again thinking, "Did I just miss something?"

Originally Posted by Оля

And I also find the "wife" scene stupid (ALTHOUGH Tikhonov plays it very very very well). Actually the whole country laughs at that scene.

Another thanks. That one just went right over my head which was why I posted the question. I could not for the life of me understand what was going on in that scene.

Originally Posted by Оля

Originally Posted by rockzmom

I started to watch Master & Margarita

I suppose you're watching Vladimir Bortko's version, not Yury Kara's one. I must say that "M&M" is one of my favourite novels, but I don't like Bortko's screen version.

Yes, I am/was watching the 2005 mini series version http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H61s7jRmT6M as I had not realized there was another version out there. I see on IMDb that the one you are speaking of was only shown at a film festival in Moscow in 2006??? http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0110476/trivia
Is this version available to watch online somewhere?

Originally Posted by rockzmom

I had not realized there was another version out there. I see on IMDb that the one you are speaking of was only shown at a film festival in Moscow in 2006??? http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0110476/trivia
Is this version available to watch online somewhere?

I've only seen it in some unusual format (mkv, maybe?.. or something) and in a very very very bad quality. And yet I liked it because for me, there was the true spirit of the novel in it, and heroes looked like I imagined them while reading the book.
It was a four parts film, each one was about 1 hour long. Unfortunally I don't know if it's possible to find it online. Anyway, I think that the picture quality would be terrible in this case.

By the way, in Bortko's version, there is a scene I like very much. That is the hospital scene when Ivan talks with Professor Stravinsky. Stravinsky's role is performed by Vasily Livanov, our famous Russian Sherlock Holmes. I think he performed the Professor just perfect.

Originally Posted by Оля

I've only seen it in some unusual format (mkv, maybe?.. or something) and in a very very very bad quality.

Thanks, I sent a PM and Youtube email to Boris to see if he has seen a copy in his Internet travels. Maybe we will get lucky!

Originally Posted by rockzmom

Originally Posted by Оля

I can add that I, too, was never be able to understand the plot of "17 Moments of Spring".

Thanks! Now, I don't feel so stupid being lost and rewatching some of the scenes over again thinking, "Did I just miss something?"

If you don't mind, I'll try to put the plot a little more clear for thouse of you who didn't read the book. At first, some prehistory.
In the beginning of the XX century young son of the Russian revolutioner goes to the emigration from tzarist regime with his father. They live in different parts of Europe but mostly in Switzerland and Germany, where young Vsevolod became fluent in German and can speak like a native. They return to Russia in 1917 after February Revolution. Vsevolod's father doesn't comletely agree with Bolshevik's doctrine, but Vsevolod becomes a member of Bolshevik's party and one of the closest man of Felix Dzierzynsky. After October revolution he takes pseudonym Maxim Isaev and becomes Сheka agent in the White army. After the end of Civil War in 1922 he (according to the orders from Moscow) goes with the remains of White army to Harbin (China) and continues his conspiracy work there. In 1933 Soviet secret service feels that Hitler will come to power soon, so agent Isaev recieves an order to infiltrate in the Nazi movement. He goes to Australia and comes to the German consulat in Sidney as German citizen Max Otto von Stirlitz who was robbed and lost all his papers. Than he goes to Germany and becomes a member of Nazi party just before they win the elections and come to power. He makes a career in Nazi intelligence service and completes many successful missions for his covert Moscow patrons...
Now to the plot of the film. The beginning of 1945. It's already clear that Germany suffers defeat. But fanatic Hitler still believes he can win. But the head of SS Himmler is not so naive. He sees only one way to avoid comlete defeat and to escape punishmet for his crimes - to break Soviet-American-British alliance, to ally with the West and than to defeat Soviet Union with the help of U.S. and Britain. So Himmler and the head of Nazi intelligence service Shellenberg (Shirlitz's oficial patron) start to seek contacts with Americans and try to convince them that to prevent a "Red threat" from Europe is far more important than "unnatural" alliance with Russians. So negotiations begin. The contragent from the American side - the head of American Secret service in Europe Allen Dalles, rabid anti-communist. Soviet intelligence learns about that. So Shtirlitz recieves an order from Moscow: his mission to break the Nazi-American negotiations by any means and keep the alliance. So it's the plot in the couple of words .

Master and Margarita torrent, subtitles. But I recommend to read the book first.

Originally Posted by studyr

I'm watching first season of Sledge Hammer.
Trust me. I know what I am doing.

Another series of that kind: Get Smart. It's an old one. Also, they did a movie out of it recently.