Thread: Films & TV: Russian & Non - Q&As/Reviews/Links all in here!

Originally Posted by Basil77

Sorry for changing subject... I just re-watched all three movies of LOTR

Too weird! Older daughter JUST finished watching all three LOTR for the FIRST time. She finished the third one on Wednesday on the bus up and back to NY watching it on her little ipod screen!!! That was how much she wanted to finish watching the last one. Of course, she was digging her nails into me most of the time...

Rocksmom says:

Book Talk...again...

while at the check-out stand I saw a book that I just could NOT believe...

My son just read this book (that cover is just so awful) and wants me to read it. I'm building up the courage.

Originally Posted by Basil77

Sorry for changing subject... I just re-watched all three movies of LOTR and while watching battle scenes there was a comparison suddenly come in my mind with classical battle scenes from Soviet movies when nobody ever heard about CGI and all the exta's were real people. And the best feature of them is that how they are strangely "nonviolent" (I mean there is no blood and such things) and sutable even for little children comparing with modern movies. I'll post several fragments in case someone didn't saw them:

I am reminded of several things when I watch a scene like the one you posted from Chapaev. As there were no CGIs and lovely tricks back then, they had to use thousands of extras and coordinate these people. Also, the music was just as important, if not more important at times (except in this case I did not see the drum corps providing the step in time).

I was an avid fan of the series The West Wing. While watching your scenes for some reason it brought back to mind a specific episode that I always found to be technically amazing to me. The editing, timing, the acting, and of course the soundtrack... all without the aid of CGI, yet a great deal of editing.

The vision to create this 2 minute and 12 second scene and then to have it come to "life" so to speak has impressed me since the first time I saw it 10 years ago and every time I have seen it since. The timing of the actors steps inside the West Wing, the soldier’s movements, the folding of the flag, the riffle shots timed with the innocent children’s voices, the placing of the flowers on the coffin, and finally the overhead shot of them leaving Arlington... all timed to the music as a whole...to me it is flawless. Each time I watch this scene it is like seeing it for the first time and I am once again in awe as to who could dream up this scene and actually have it come to fruition so perfectly.

From Season 1, Episode 10 "In Excelsis Deo"

[video:28q5no2e]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXlPSXuJFDQ[/video:28q5no2e]

I also thought this scene from Moulin Rouge was also done extremely well. The mixing of the three story lines, editing, lighting, and dancers movement (especially in unison) timed to the redone version of a “classic” well known rock song took major technical work and vision. (BTW, the rest of the movie... I was not so impressed with.)

If you click on the "more info" on the right side it has all the words, both spoken and sung.
[video:1zvws1if]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dX-B7M56AKk[/video:1zvws1if]

So I am back to watching 17 Moments of Spring!

I have rewatched Part One and am in the middle of Part 2.

I have a comment and a question.

Comment:
Why is it that in this clip while Hitler is watching the news reels at the start of this scene, there are English subtitles for all of the news reels, even the American one that is in English, EXCEPT for the German one? Did the person who did the subtitles thin people who speak and understand English can read but not hear English but can hear and comprehend German?
[video:30xernup]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oddzPCXiytg[/video:30xernup]

Question:
The large wall music box that is in the restaurant at the 3:25 mark in this scene. I have never seen one such as this before. Can anyone tell me anything about this? The history of these? If they are still made? The actual name of these things?
[video:30xernup]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22SKb1v7-hc[/video:30xernup]

there are English subtitles for all of the news reels, even the American one that is in English, EXCEPT for the German one?

Only Russian speech was subtitled. Schellenberg was translating from English for Himmler and what he was saying was subtitled. He didn't translated from German, obviously.

Originally Posted by E-learner

Only Russian speech was subtitled. Schellenberg was translating from English for Himmler and what he was saying was subtitled. He didn't translated from German, obviously.

Okay, so you cleared the English to English part up and that makes a little sense for me.
And I understand why of course he would not translate the German... my brain is not that much mush...yet...

But.... I still don't understand.... why not subtitle the German into English if the Russian was subtitled into English?

Originally Posted by rockzmom

why not subtitle the German into English if the Russian was subtitled into English?

German wasn't translated for film's target audience - Russian viewers, why should it have been translated for English speaking viewers? It would have distorted the perception of the film, wouldn't it? Also, it would have been unfair, or condescending, depending on how you look at it.


Incidentally, about the only German I know is "хенде хох!", and I believe every Russian knows at least as much from war films. I'm surprised to find out that I didn't know what it is in English. It's "hands up!"

The large wall music box that is in the restaurant at the 3:25 mark in this scene. I have never seen one such as this before. Can anyone tell me anything about this? The history of these? If they are still made? The actual name of these things?

Apparently, they are called just that: disk music boxes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_box
http://www.vincentfreemanantiques.com/disks.htm
http://www.themusicboxcompany.com/disk_music_boxes.htm

Originally Posted by E-learner

Incidentally, about the only German I know is "хенде хох!", and I believe every Russian knows at least as much from war films.

What about "Гитлер капут"?

There's... what is it?.. a crowd
of people on the palace grounds!
So it's obvious: things are taking
A social turn, if I'm not mistaken!

I'm a folklore element,
I have got a document!
I can fly away from here
Any time, at any moment!

[video:3437eync]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5q7v1ic_rM[/video:3437eync]

Originally Posted by birubir

What about "Гитлер капут"?

Айн-цвай, полицай. Драй, фир, фюнф, зег, зибен, ахт, нойн... Битте шён, данке шён. Хальт! Цурюк! Прозит! Едем дас зайне, унтерменш! Их либе зи! Арбайт махт фрай! Гутен морген, гутен таг, либе дамен унд верте геррен! Аусвайс, гештальт унд психоаналитик. Ферштейн нихт! Дас ист фантастишь!

Кто-то не понял?

Originally Posted by birubir

There's... what is it?.. a crowd
of people on the palace grounds!
So it's obvious: things are taking
A social turn, if I'm not mistaken!

I'm a folklore element,
I have got a document!
I can fly away from here
Any time, at any moment!

BORIS IS IN THE HOUSE!

I am so very pleased that you accepted my offer to drop in and you even posted a video for us to watch!!

For those of you who do not know birubir, he is THE MAN, behind many of the videos that we watch or post from YouTube!
http://www.youtube.com/user/birubirFilms

Boris, I hope that you will visit often and let us know when you have found new films (or cartoons) that we should take a look at!!! I will also update my film list with the rest of the links for direct downloading from Yandex for parts 4-12 for 17 Moments of Spring. Thanks!

Originally Posted by E-learner

Originally Posted by rockzmom

why not subtitle the German into English if the Russian was subtitled into English?

German wasn't translated for film's target audience - Russian viewers, why should it have been translated for English speaking viewers? It would have distorted the perception of the film, wouldn't it? Also, it would have been unfair, or condescending, depending on how you look at it.


Incidentally, about the only German I know is "хенде хох!", and I believe every Russian knows at least as much from war films. I'm surprised to find out that I didn't know what it is in English. It's "hands up!"

Okay E-learner... maybe it is just because I have had a rough couple of days and it is also 93F here (what is that 33C for you?) but I am still just not getting this. So, I am not picking on you....

IF the target audience for the English subtitles of this film are Russian viewers... than why translate the Russian into English subtitles? Why have English subtitles at all?

I thought the target audience of this film WITH English subtitles would be someone like...say ME . Someone who wants to watch this series but who does NOT understand Russian.

I just thought it rather odd that of all the languages, German was the only one that did not have the subtitles to let the viewer know what the news reel was saying.

In the BIG picture, it really does not matter as it is only a propaganda reel, I understand... I just thought it odd and it stuck out like a sore thumb to me.

------
Now, about the information on the Music Boxes that you found....
If this economy ever turns around again and I have some disposable income... I might just get me one of these there thingamabobbers. Or at least start to look for one at a flea market or second hand store. I never knew they made these types of gizmos and they look just lovely!!!
Thank you again for finding the information for me!!!

Originally Posted by birubir

Originally Posted by E-learner

Incidentally, about the only German I know is "хенде хох!", and I believe every Russian knows at least as much from war films.

What about "Гитлер капут"?

"Капут" is Russian, as well as "kaput" is English.
Seriously, when I first heard it in a film I was surprised the German soldier seemed to understand it!

Everyone,

I have updated the film listing and at the bottom of the listing, I have now added CARTOONS!!!

The listing is back on page 13.

Originally Posted by rockzmom

IF the target audience for the English subtitles of this film are Russian viewers...

The target audience of the original film, without English subtitles, were Russian speaking people. The German wasn't translated for them. Russian speaking people do not understand what was said in German (unless they know German).

The target audience of the film with English subtitles were English speaking people. The German wasn't translated for them. English speaking people do not understand what was said in German (unless they know German).

Russian speaking people and English speaking people are in the same boat. They are having the same experience. Shouldn't it be the ultimate goal of a translation?

Of course, it's just my understanding. I don't know what the translator was thinking about. Maybe they just didn't know German.

Originally Posted by E-learner

Originally Posted by rockzmom

IF the target audience for the English subtitles of this film are Russian viewers...

The target audience of the original film, without English subtitles, were Russian speaking people. The German wasn't translated for them. Russian speaking people do not understand what was said in German (unless they know German).

Now, we're getting somewhere! So, when this was aired on TV back in 1973, none of the German was translated. That is an interesting effect and directorial choice. Is there more German to come in the rest of the parts? Remember, I am only on part 2.

Originally Posted by E-learner

Russian speaking people and English speaking people are in the same boat. They are having the same experience. Shouldn't it be the ultimate goal of a translation?

Agreed, 1,000%.

E-Learner... you deserve a medal for putting up with me this week! I have been like a tenacious pit-bull and I have noticed that no one dared even come to lend you a hand for fear of it being gnawed at. Thank you for not giving up on me.


E-learner and others... I read on Wiki that in 2009, a remastered and colorized version of "17" was released. Has anyone seen this version of it and if so, what did you think of it?

One of the classes I took in film school was about the entire colorization process as it was just starting back then. We were shown how the painstaking research was done to try and be exacting as possible and true to the color of the clothes, paint on the walls, hair and eye coloring, you name it... Personally, I am not a fan of it. I believe that Black and White films have a feel all to their own and were shot with the cinematographer and director's eye AS a black and white (and with a million shades of grays) a not with color in mind. Restoring a black and white and the soundtrack of the film I am all for, but not to colorize it.

Originally Posted by rockzmom

E-learner and others... I read on Wiki that in 2009, a remastered and colorized version of "17" was released. Has anyone seen this version of it and if so, what did you think of it?

I've started a topic about it in the Culture and history subforum. It even had a poll attached.
Unfortunately, it's in Russian. But you could see users' opinions expressed via the poll.

http://masterrussian.net/mforum/view...p?f=23&t=17253

Originally Posted by Ramil

Originally Posted by rockzmom

E-learner and others... I read on Wiki that in 2009, a remastered and colorized version of "17" was released. Has anyone seen this version of it and if so, what did you think of it?

I've started a topic about it in the Culture and history subforum. It even had a poll attached.
Unfortunately, it's in Russian. But you could see users' opinions expressed via the poll.

http://masterrussian.net/mforum/view...p?f=23&t=17253

Ramil...if I could but give you a hug, I would! I took each line and put it into Google Translate!
And BappaBa ... the photos you posted as well were wonderful for me to be able to see! Thank you both!

I am on Part 3 right now and I may need to start a thread just with questions just about this film!
For starters...I need something like a "spy roster" cheat sheet (like a sports team lineup) to help me keep everyone straight.