Thread: Why I love (and hate) dating Russian men (article)

Originally Posted by maxmixiv

"Superior", "equal". How about "different"? It is not possible to make men and women the same (I hope)

Feminism is an excuse for 'men-bashing', bottom line. Anyone with common sense and a touch of courtesy will treat women well and don't want any harm committed but Feminism was a political movement, just another from the West in order to profit and gain 'special power.' Russians are criticized and pressured to go along but many have good sense (well, so far).

Originally Posted by it-ogo

No offence, Deb. Those were nothing more then my opinions which can be changed easily with new information.

No offense taken, It-ogo... I'm just tired of debating this subject. I don't feel like anyone really hears what I am saying, and so it's kind of like shouting in a hurricane. That doesn't mean I have given up or that I don't have an argument left. I do, and I am capable of expressing it very clearly. I just don't see the point in discussing it here in the language forum. There are plenty of political forums where I dish out my opinion regularly, where it doesn't matter to me if I offend anyone. However, I do care about offending the people here, because this is a kind of community. Controversial subjects like this one can quickly degrade, and well-reasoned opinions can give way to personal insults and attacks. I don't want that to happen, so I will bow out of the discussion now. This is just one of those subjects on which we will have to agree to disagree.

Lastly, I will just add that personally, I am very grateful for the efforts that the suffragists made in my country. Without their sacrifice, I would not have the right to vote, or drive a car, or own a house, or use birth control pills, or divorce my husband. I would not have been able to have an exciting career as a TV reporter, working in a male-dominated field. I was able to live out my dreams and I saw amazing things. Thanks to the feminists, I can look back on my life with a sense of pride and accomplishment. But not every woman gets this chance, because in some parts of society even here in our so-called "land of the free," women are still treated like cattle and they are told that careers are for men, and that they are supposed to stay home and become a broodmare. As long as little girls are raped and towns rally in support of the rapist, as long as men continue to openly degrade women, as long as women are considered inferior and objectified, as long as we are not being recognized as human beings, I will continue to be a feminist and fight the good fight. But part of wisdom, I believe, is knowing where and when to pick your battles. So I am choosing not to debate this topic here.

Originally Posted by Deborski

No offense taken, It-ogo... I'm just tired of debating this subject. I don't feel like anyone really hears what I am saying, and so it's kind of like shouting in a hurricane. That doesn't mean I have given up or that I don't have an argument left. I do, and I am capable of expressing it very clearly. I just don't see the point in discussing it here in the language forum. There are plenty of political forums where I dish out my opinion regularly, where it doesn't matter to me if I offend anyone. However, I do care about offending the people here, because this is a kind of community. Controversial subjects like this one can quickly degrade, and well-reasoned opinions can give way to personal insults and attacks. I don't want that to happen, so I will bow out of the discussion now. This is just one of those subjects on which we will have to agree to disagree.

Lastly, I will just add that personally, I am very grateful for the efforts that the suffragists made in my country. Without their sacrifice, I would not have the right to vote, or drive a car, or own a house, or use birth control pills, or divorce my husband. I would not have been able to have an exciting career as a TV reporter, working in a male-dominated field. I was able to live out my dreams and I saw amazing things. Thanks to the feminists, I can look back on my life with a sense of pride and accomplishment. But not every woman gets this chance, because in some parts of society even here in our so-called "land of the free," women are still treated like cattle and they are told that careers are for men, and that they are supposed to stay home and become a broodmare. As long as little girls are raped and towns rally in support of the rapist, as long as men continue to openly degrade women, as long as women are considered inferior and objectified, as long as we are not being recognized as human beings, I will continue to be a feminist and fight the good fight. But part of wisdom, I believe, is knowing where and when to pick your battles. So I am choosing not to debate this topic here.

Each of us are probably right in his/her own way. Нет формулы, по которой мы могли бы установить абсолютную истину.
I agree to the most of what you have been saying here. Those problems do exist and we (all the people) shouldn't turn away from them.
But some of the methods that are used to "solve" those problems look absolutely inappropriate and unacceptable for me. One cannot defeat evil with evil. The result will be just far more evil. So I agree with the most of what it-ogo said too.
Не собираюсь спорить, просто чтобы прояснить свою точку зрения.

Originally Posted by Deborski

There are plenty of political forums where I dish out my opinion regularly, where it doesn't matter to me if I offend anyone.

I see. I have some experience in such kind of forums. They are good training of our character and fighting qualities but damage our ability to listen and understand anything new.

As for me I finally came to the conclusion that educating myself and expanding my own horizon is much more worthy objective of discussion than trying to convince anyone in anything. Usually I contradict an oponent only to the point when I obtain the formulation of my position that satisfy myself. I enjoy formulations.

Read a news story today, about a Scandinavian toy catalogue.
Because of the climate in Scandinavia, the catalogue contained "reversed" gender roles for the boys and girls.
So there were girls playing with trucks and power tools, and boys playing with dolls and toy kitchens.
(and this is just ONE examples of all the stuff that kids are exposed to, on this agenda. It's almost like kids who are true to gender identity are forced towards the opposite, on principle).

The catalogue was then sent to customers in France, on a large scale and many really took offense to it - and there was a huge debate in media about whether the Scandinavian views was deluded and ridiculous, or positive. Whereby Scandinavian media claims the French are reactive sexists and what not.

Personally I think - let the kids play as they like! Truth is probably most girls prefer the dolls. To try to turn nature upside down for little innocent children is ridiculous.

I hated playing with dolls. My favorite toys were rocket ships and I also loved collecting model horses.

My nephew -- now 6-and-a-half -- loves his construction vehicles, trains, and absolutely everything Lego-related. But when he was a few years younger, one of his favorite toys was a "play kitchen" that his grandmother gave him -- he would spend hours taking pretend food out of the refrigerator, stirring it in a big pot with a wooden spoon, or cooking it in the microwave. (His favorite recipe: "Суп из футбэгов", or "Hacky-sack soup" -- after his dad brought home a large bag full of corporate-branded hacky-sacks from a business convention!)

So anyway, he enjoyed playing with the "girly" kitchen for a year or two, but then he just decided that trucks, trains, and Legos were more fun.

You can see a selection of images from the Swedish toy-catalog here, and honestly they don't look that strange or radical to me -- perhaps because most of the children are quite young. (I admit that, to me, it might seem like "forced political correctness" if the catalog showed a 10-year-old boy playing with a Barbie doll. But a 3-year-old boy playing with a toy vacuum cleaner is no big deal.)

Originally Posted by Deborski

I hated playing with dolls. My favorite toys were rocket ships and I also loved collecting model horses.

Well like I said, the point is to let the kids play as they like

Here is a story about it, and they bring up how the Swedish nurseries were extremely close to banning the words "she/he" and his/hers, using a gender neutral combination word that they had made up.
http://www.slate.fr/story/56183/hen-...re-genre-suede As a national policy!!

All kids essentially attend these nurseries from ca 2 - 6, so that would change a whole generation
Can you sympathise that from my perspective I think this is a sort of national hysteria that has gone out of all proportions...? That's why I come out stronger on the other side.

I wouldn't bother with this issue if things were "normal". For example the hysteria on this has not hit England (yet) but it's probably a matter of time.

I am of the opinion that the genders were meant to complement each other, not compete with each other.
So at the same time as promoting extreme ideals like I mentioned above, they put people like Lady Gaga, Miley Cyrus and Madonna on TV supposedly as ideals. Who use their bodies and sexuality to sell music. While strip clubs and prostitution is legal.
I think it's contradictory, illogical, confusing and psychologically unhealthy.

Originally Posted by Hanna

Hen: le nouveau pronom neutre qui fait polémique en Suède | Slate

TFr, DR

Originally Posted by Hanna

So there were girls playing with trucks and power tools, and boys playing with dolls and toy kitchens.

Great idea! Children should develop their imagination and handicraft to provide dolls with some decent weapons and trucks with some nice outfit.

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

My nephew -- now 6-and-a-half -- loves his construction vehicles, trains, and absolutely everything Lego-related. But when he was a few years younger, one of his favorite toys was a "play kitchen" that his grandmother gave him -- he would spend hours taking pretend food out of the refrigerator, stirring it in a big pot with a wooden spoon, or cooking it in the microwave. (His favorite recipe: "Суп из футбэгов", or "Hacky-sack soup" -- after his dad brought home a large bag full of corporate-branded hacky-sacks from a business convention!)

So anyway, he enjoyed playing with the "girly" kitchen for a year or two, but then he just decided that trucks, trains, and Legos were more fun.

You can see a selection of images from the Swedish toy-catalog here, and honestly they don't look that strange or radical to me -- perhaps because most of the children are quite young. (I admit that, to me, it might seem like "forced political correctness" if the catalog showed a 10-year-old boy playing with a Barbie doll. But a 3-year-old boy playing with a toy vacuum cleaner is no big deal.)

Men use vacuum cleaners and men cook. I think it's silly to label such equipment as "feminine." Even a sexist guy who believes that cooking and cleaning is "women's work" has to learn how to do those things when he's living alone and single, no? I dunno about forced political correctness. To me, showing a boy using a vacuum cleaner or a toy kitchen doesn't scream of "political correctness" but of reality. There are lots of great male chefs and not all of them are gay

On the other hand, I did feel like I was being forced to subscribe to a certain view of what being "female" is all about when, growing up, every toy commercial I ever saw depicted girls playing with dolls, or cooking sets. So I dunno if a commercial which portrays the opposite of that is forcing "political correctness" on anyone or if it's just daring to go contrary to the worn out, tired "status quo" which has remained unchallenged most of my life.

For example, I found this non-traditional commercial very refreshing and long overdue!

Originally Posted by Hanna

out of all proportions...? That's why I come out stronger on the other side.

How many people think the same, do you think?
I am afraid Swedes could die out in 100 years, and will be replaced with Mozambicans, if a mess of such kind will continue.

Originally Posted by Alex_krsk

If someone tells you how to pee, the best way will be to pee on them!
I hope they never get that absurd law passed... Not only does it have nothing to do with gender equality, it conflicts with The Human Rights Declaration and such.

Originally Posted by Eric C.

If someone tells you how to pee, the best way will be to pee on them!
I hope they never get that absurd law passed... Not only does it have nothing to do with gender equality, it conflicts with The Human Rights Declaration and such.

The sad thing is that finally those laws (and some even worse) will be passed gradually all over the EU. Because people who have no obligations to their families no responsiblility for their children no ethnic or cultural traditions. People who only interested in their safty and wealth. People who have sex mostly for fun with no mutual responsibility with the partner. Are perfect consumers easily manipulated on what to buy and how much to loan from banks.

Originally Posted by Alex_krsk

The sad thing is that finally those laws (and some even worse) will be passed gradually all over the EU. Because people who have no obligations to their families no responsiblility for their children no ethnic or cultural traditions. People who only interested in their safty and wealth. People who have sex mostly for fun with no mutual responsibility with the partner. Are perfect consumers easily manipulated on what to buy and how much to loan from banks.

Man, that's bullsh*t commie talks. The word "responsibility" scares me off. I'm rather interested in my or my relatives' safety and wealth than any random person's. I have sex for fun mostly, and so do the girls I have it with. I like spending the money I've made the way I like. BUT I WOULD FREAKING HATE BEING TOLD HOW TO PEE!!!

Originally Posted by Eric C.

Man, that's bullsh*t commie talks. The word "responsibility" scares me off. I'm rather interested in my or my relatives' safety and wealth than any random person's. I have sex for fun mostly, and so do the girls I have it with. I like spending money I've made the way I like. BUT I WOULD FREAKING HATE BEING TOLD HOW TO PEE!!!

Commie talks are what's going on in the EU piarlament NACH-MAUER EUROPA

Originally Posted by Eric C.

I like spending money I've made the way I like.

Do you really believe you spend your money the way YOU like ?

Originally Posted by Eric C.

BUT I WOULD FREAKING HATE BEING TOLD HOW TO PEE!!!

Unfortunately you'll have to do things the way you are told. You'll just have no choise.

Originally Posted by Alex_krsk

Do you really believe you spend your money the way YOU like ?

Are you gonna tell me now that ad banners at shopping malls trick me into buying something I don't need? =)))

Originally Posted by Alex_krsk

Unfortunately you'll have to do things the way you are told. You'll just have no choise.

That fascist law won't ever get passed. Overall, I think it might be a joke made up by that Russian TV channel. =))

Originally Posted by Eric C.

Are you gonna tell me now that ad banners at shopping malls trick me into buying something I don't need? =)))

No. You surely wouldn't survive without the stuff you buy.

Originally Posted by Eric C.

That fascist law won't ever get passed. Overall, I think it might be a joke of that Russian TV channel. =))

I didn't know Euronews was Russian TV channel.

Originally Posted by Alex_krsk

I didn't know Euronews was Russian TV channel.

I didn't notice it's Euronews... So yeah, it gets kinda interesting now, but I still view it as a joke, I simply can't take that kind of stuff seriously xD