Thread: Controversial Problems in Russian and Some Other Societies

Anyway, as much fun as this debate has (NOT!) been, I am going to bow out of this thread. There is a reason I usually avoid discussing issues like gay rights, feminism and racism with Russians. These are issues we are likely to never find agreement on, I am sorry to say.

So lambaste away. Gang up on me, troll me, do whatever you feel you need to do. I've spoken my mind and I am done. I will return to writing my blog, which is a great deal more fulfilling than endless debates with people who are never going to see eye-to-eye with me.

As the late great Edward R. Murrow used to say, "good night and good luck."

Originally Posted by Deborski

It isn't American pride at all!

Unfortunately, it is. And you are blinded by it and cannot see it. I can see it because I'm a foreigner

Originally Posted by Deborski

Not sure what you mean about "bathing in shit." I have black friends. I also know black people who are assholes. I don't shy from telling them all what I think.

bathing in shit means that you will be beat up verbally and maybe physically for speaking up your mind

Originally Posted by Deborski

But the good thing about America - at least for the time being - is that I won't be fined $300 each time I speak my mind.

They only make you to resign and lose you carrier and your lifestyle. I think it is way to much comparing to $300

Originally Posted by Deborski

I am really sad that everything is "us and them" with your statement. What is so bad about society ACCEPTING black people, gay people, or Russian people? I don't care if people are gay, straight, black, white, male, female or purple with pink polka dots. If they are nice to me, I will be nice to them.

Accepting is a broad term
If they'd be nice not to kiss on public I would really appreciate it. But apparently it's too much to ask

I am learning all about Russia and how to speak Russian. That's because I want to live in Russia someday. I know I would be happier living there and I don't expect the USA to change just for me.
If your gay Russian friends want to live where they can be happy then maybe they should do what I'm doing except learn English and move to America.
Everybody has to decide where they will be happy. There are lots of governments so there will be one that can make somebody happy to live there.
Even in the USA people will move to another state if they aren't happy living where they are. A lot of gay people moved to California because the laws were better for them there.
Different states have different laws and different countries have different laws.

And trust me, there are tons of kids in America who need parents. While people were adopting from Russia, was that helping the orphans here?
I don't know very much about psychology yet and that's not what I want for a career. But I do know that a lot of Russian kids were being hurt and now nobody in America can adopt Russian kids.
As for me, I think more Russians should adopt more Russian kids and more Americans should adopt more American kids.

About the gay adoption thing. My parents are not gay and I am not abused or mistreated so we can agree to disagree and move on. Gays have rights in all of America and western Europe. That's tons of space where they can live and get happy.
All I can say is people need to go and live where they are happy. Lots of Russians moved to America to get happy. Lots of Americans move to Russia to get happy. And people move to other countries to get happy.
Since gay parades are not wanted in Russia then that is not where gays should live.
Since I'm not gay and I get along better with Russians - that I know in real-life - than I do with other Americans, then I should go and live with Russians. It's so simple.
America wants the whole world to be America. I don't. So I must be Russian, lol!

But I will always believe that gay bashing is wrong. But people are not prevented from finding another place to live. I know I'm not.
Btw, the people who taught me how to say hi in Russian are a married couple from St. Petersburg. They gave me a Russian calendar too!

It's a pity, but Deborski serially ignores common sense. No one cares about gays except for the strange people. On the contrary, some silly gays bother normal people. I don't know if someone is gay or not and I don't want to know. But these freaks run after me and cry "dude, we are different, we make love in a different way, so you must respect us because of that." The next step is substantiation that gays are better than normal people (some radicals already say like that). That's a "Nazi" style and it's obvious to me.
Also, everyone has to remember: parades are conducted by winners. If "gay mentality" has won in your country, you should allow all types of the parades. By the "gay mentality" I mean not only sexual life, of course.

It's a pity, but Deborski serially ignores common sense. No one cares about gays except for the strange people. On the contrary, some silly gays bother normal people. I don't know if someone is gay or not and I don't want to know. But these freaks run after me and cry "dude, we are different, we make love in a different way, so you must respect us because of that." The next step is substantiation that gays are better than normal people (some radicals already say like that). That's a "Nazi" style and it's obvious to me.
...

Через какое-то время людям с такой точкой зрения будет стыдно за себя, очень стыдно.
Только, к сожалению, к тому времени ещё многие и многие российские подростки-геи покончат жизнь самоубийством.


"Добавлено 30 июня 2013 в 13:57
Сергей Лазарев: "Гонения на геев могут закончиться волной самоубийств среди подростков" http://heat.ru/news/108695


"... Россия в депрессии: страну захлестнул вал самоубийств. Все чаще из жизни уходят подростки, а то и совсем маленькие дети. Какую же боль надо носить в душе, чтобы убить себя в таком цветущем возрасте?. ..." http://do.gendocs.ru/docs/index-284049.html

"...Наши подростки сводят счёты с жизнью в три раза чаще сверстников из других стран. Ежегодно 1,7 тысяч российских детей и подростков кончают жизнь самоубийством. ..."
http://www.rg.ru/2011/03/15/suicid-poln.html

"...Согласно исследованиям, примерно одна пятая часть гомосексуальных подростков пытались покончить жизнь самоубийством. ..." http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D1%E0%...F1%F2%EA%EE%E2

Originally Posted by Lampada

Через какое-то время людям с такой точкой зрения будет стыдно за себя, очень стыдно.
Только, к сожалению, к тому времени ещё многие и многие российские подростки-геи покончат жизнь самоубийством.

Мне не стыдно сейчас и вряд ли будет стыдно когда-нибудь, поскольку моя позиция не ангажирована. В первую очередь подростки-геи кончают жизнь самоубийством не потому, что они испытывают давление, а потому что они чувствуют свою ненормальность, что переносится тяжело в этом возрасте. Они испытывают психологические проблемы, но помощи им ждать неоткуда. По этой же причине высок риск самоубийств среди инвалидов, смертельно больных людей, сумасшедших и т.д. Хотя, конечно, давление на подростков-геев в каких-то конкретных случаях может иметь место, но это некритично для статистики.

"Гонения на геев могут закончиться волной самоубийств среди подростков" - могут. Только виноваты в этом сами геи, вернее, та неумная их часть, которая противопоставляет себя обществу и пытается заработать политический, экономический или социальный капитал, втягивая в проблематику детей и подростков. Подросткам нужно помогать, я не втягивать их в борьбу в виде заложников.

На самом же деле среди геев просто-напросто большой процент психически больных людей (и вообще людей с психологическими проблемами), бОльший, чем среди гетеросексуальной группы. Этим объясняются и склонность к суициду, и прочие вещи. Вообще, достаточно посмотреть на любой гей-парад, присмотреться внимательно к активистам ЛГБТ движения - и всё станет ясно.

Originally Posted by Paul G.

Мне не стыдно сейчас и вряд ли будет стыдно когда-нибудь, поскольку моя позиция не ангажирована. В первую очередь подростки-геи кончают жизнь самоубийством не потому, что они испытывают давление, а потому что они чувствуют свою ненормальность, что переносится тяжело в этом возрасте. Они испытывают психологические проблемы, но помощи им ждать неоткуда. По этой же причине высок риск самоубийств среди инвалидов, смертельно больных людей, сумасшедших и т.д. Хотя, конечно, давление на подростков-геев в каких-то конкретных случаях может иметь место, но это некритично для статистики.

"Гонения на геев могут закончиться волной самоубийств среди подростков" - могут. Только виноваты в этом сами геи, вернее, та неумная их часть, которая противопоставляет себя обществу и пытается заработать политический, экономический или социальный капитал, втягивая в проблематику детей и подростков. Подросткам нужно помогать, я не втягивать их в борьбу в виде заложников.

На самом же деле среди геев просто-напросто большой процент психически больных людей (и вообще людей с психологическими проблемами), бОльший, чем среди гетеросексуальной группы. Этим объясняются и склонность к суициду, и прочие вещи. Вообще, достаточно посмотреть на любой гей-парад, присмотреться внимательно к активистам ЛГБТ движения - и всё станет ясно.

Оставь надежду, сюда входящий...

Originally Posted by Lampada

Оставь надежду, сюда входящий...

Данте Алигьери.

Причины самоубийство сильно отличаются в разных возрастных группах - так, суициды из за неразделенной любви у подростков до 16 лет составляют практически половину от общего числа самоубийств, а после 25 лет по этой причине кончают с собой гораздо реже.

That's when it's more important to study and play sports. There's lots of time to think about other things later.

Originally Posted by Paul G.

It's a pity, but Deborski serially ignores common sense. No one cares about gays except for the strange people. On the contrary, some silly gays bother normal people. I don't know if someone is gay or not and I don't want to know. But these freaks run after me and cry "dude, we are different, we make love in a different way, so you must respect us because of that." The next step is substantiation that gays are better than normal people (some radicals already say like that). That's a "Nazi" style and it's obvious to me.
Also, everyone has to remember: parades are conducted by winners. If "gay mentality" has won in your country, you should allow all types of the parades. By the "gay mentality" I mean not only sexual life, of course.

Yeah, the "gay mentality" just means weak. Even our president has that and it just makes him look weak. It's people who are tough that win. Weak people are just losers. When somebody hits me, then I fight. I don't cry about it.

Don't worry the critics will not happen.
Just remember that's a system of values or value codes it's a sphere of intense competition. The losing side in this competition is waiting for a national disaster. System of values ​​and world view then it is very difficult to change. To rise above itself always need to make some effort. Go with the flow and follow their habits much easier.

Deleted. L.

One thing that is very irritating nowadays if you open a socialist paper, they won't write about social justice, anti-imperialism, better housing for workers and that kind of stuff.

Instead they spend most of the paper banging on about GAY rights, feminism and anti-rasism. The three big socially correct issues at the moment. The whole movement for social justice has been literally hijacked by these issues! Meanwhile the social safety net for the middle class and working class is disintegrating. I wish they left wing politicians would let the homosexuals take care of themselves and focus on the real issue that concerns normal people.

I must say Russia can count itself lucky to be spared from this.
If a person is a black homosexual woman, she is literally a perfect being who can do NO wrong. Ridiculous!

Sure, there is merit to these causes up to a point. But these issues have completely hijacked the social debates in Western Europe at least, especially in the Northern countries.

And many countries go so far over board with this that you don't know whether to laugh or cry. My sister mentioned on the phone a few weeks ago that her child's nursery was closed so the teachers could get LBQT training (sensitivity to homosexual issues). These teachers look after kids up to six years old! Why do they need to consider issues of a sexual nature at all! The nursery then sent a letter encouraging the parents not to let children play only with toys that are not typical for their gender. Like encourage girls play with trucks and action figures and boys play with dolls. How silly!!! Let the kids decide themselves what they prefer to play with, rather than forcing some PC agenda on them. Most little girl enjoy playing with dolls more than playing with trucks. So what? And the most ridiculous thing: If a little boy wants to wear a dress, the parents are not to traumatise him, but he can come to the nursery in a dress, if he likes. That was too much, even for my sister. Not to mention ridiculous gay parades every year, and politicians going out of their way to prove how pro-gay they are, and complaining about the human rights of gay people in Eastern Europe. Not my problem!) The whole thing is twisted! I don't wish any harm on gay people but I don't want anything to do with their lifestyle and I'd much prefer if they can be discrete about it.

One word: Sodom and Gomorrah!


http://www.svd.se/nyheter/utrikes/ny...la_8377908.svd
Article that claims that Russian neo nazis have kidnap and torture gay people. Obviously this is terrible but these stories are a dime a dozen. We are supposed to believe that every gay person in Eastern Europe is practically fearing for their life.

Refugees from Africa are starting to use homosexuality as a reason why they need asylum. It's interesting how many discover that they are gay AFTER they came to Europe. They happened to tell all their family and friends at home and now they can't return because they'd be killed..... Sigh.

Лампада, удаление сообщения не решит проблемы. Это всё равно, что прятать голову в песок, как страус.

Sodom and Gomorrah? Nazis? Really?

Jeeze, what happened to this place? There are some truly vile people on this forum these days.

Originally Posted by scotcher

Sodom and Gomorrah? Nazis? Really?

Jeeze, what happened to this place? There are some truly vile people on this forum these days.

Are you saying Christians are vile? Ok, that's your prerogative. Or between you and God, I should say.
Nobody in this thread claimed to be a Nazi.

If you ask me, it's tyranny to expect everybody to love homosexuals and support gay pride parades.
And to villify those that don't, in the name of political correctness.
All we are saying here, is that people should keep their sexuality private. Including gays!
It's a private matter, not something to go and rub into other people's faces when they happen to be out shopping or sitting at a cafe, as the Gay pride parade does.

Little children should not have to look at people in penis costumes or and Catholics should not have to look a transsexual "nuns" with crucifixes next to dildos and similar vulgar, tasteless and antisocial displays that are common in Gay pride parades. It's offensive!

Originally Posted by Hanna

Are you saying Christians are vile? Ok, that's your prerogative. Or between you and God, I should say.
Nobody in this thread claimed to be a Nazi.

If you ask me, it's tyranny to expect everybody to love homosexuals and support gay pride parades.
And to villify those that don't, in the name of political correctness.
All we are saying here, is that people should keep their sexuality private. Including gays!
It's a private matter, not something to go and rub into other people's faces when they happen to be out shopping or sitting at a cafe, as the Gay pride parade does.

Little children should not have to look at people in penis costumes or and Catholics should not have to look a transsexual "nuns" with crucifixes next to dildos and similar vulgar, tasteless and antisocial displays that are common in Gay pride parades. It's offensive!

You used Svenska Dagbladet? LOL You have no credibility. You are a good troll, though.

Originally Posted by 14Russian

You used Svenska Dagbladet? LOL You have no credibility. You are a good troll, though.

She was just born at the wrong time; her views would be perfect if she was living in the 1930s - 1940s...

Originally Posted by Hanna

Are you saying Christians are vile? Ok, that's your prerogative. Or between you and God, I should say.
Nobody in this thread claimed to be a Nazi.

If you ask me, it's tyranny to expect everybody to love homosexuals and support gay pride parades.
And to villify those that don't, in the name of political correctness.
All we are saying here, is that people should keep their sexuality private. Including gays!
It's a private matter, not something to go and rub into other people's faces when they happen to be out shopping or sitting at a cafe, as the Gay pride parade does.

Little children should not have to look at people in penis costumes or and Catholics should not have to look a transsexual "nuns" with crucifixes next to dildos and similar vulgar, tasteless and antisocial displays that are common in Gay pride parades. It's offensive!

Hanna, is it really you? I am lost... Could it be that somebody's kidnapped your nickname?

Originally Posted by Deborski

Anyway, as much fun as this debate has (NOT!) been, I am going to bow out of this thread. There is a reason I usually avoid discussing issues like gay rights, feminism and racism with Russians. These are issues we are likely to never find agreement on, I am sorry to say.

So lambaste away. Gang up on me, troll me, do whatever you feel you need to do. I've spoken my mind and I am done. I will return to writing my blog, which is a great deal more fulfilling than endless debates with people who are never going to see eye-to-eye with me.

As the late great Edward R. Murrow used to say, "good night and good luck."

That's because you have no argument. (Deleted. L.) This is a trait quite apparent in most lefties.

Let's look at this topic's most recent developments. I'm not sure who knows this yet but these LGBT groups are calling (no, demanding) that people boycott Russian goods, especially the vodka companies. But, all Russian goods so make certain you're aware of that. So, through no fault of their own, Russian companies are being singled out to be punished because of something their Government (supposedly) did. Are those Russian companies run by 'anti-gay' owners, managers and CEOs? Who knows, who cares? But, you *must* boycott them. This is the logic from leftists. The one example I refer to is Stolichnaya (Stoli) vodka. The LGBT community is calling up bars and pubs and demanding that they don't serve Stoli vodka. No reason except that it is Russian and a Russian* company (we soon learn that it isn't technically Russian or can be perceived as not owned by Russian(s)). If you investigate further, you discover that the Stoli company has publicly announced that they support the LGBT community and gay rights. Um, hello?!? LOL! The logic is that by boycotting Russian vodka, you will pressure these businesses to thus pressure the Government. Yes, that is how it works. LOL! Punish them first and try to ruin them in the hope that they might request the Government change their laws. This kind of boycott and outside interference in businesses of the entire country is often done and has been done before. All the LGBT community will do is hurt their cause and provoke more backlash and less and less people will be sympathetic. But, they're too stupid to realize it.

Oh, also, Stolichnaya is not, technically, owned and controlled by a Russian. It's operated by the Luxembourg-based SPI Group which is owned by Yury Shefler (Shefler doesn't sound like a Russian surname to me). He's also been called an Oligarch. So, this part below is somewhat of a lie:

"Yes, the company owner, Yury Shefler, *is Russian*, and quite prominent, but “He doesn’t live in Russia, he cannot even go to Russia, he was really kicked out,” Mendeleev said."

Anti-gay law prompts B.C. pub to ban Russian vodka - British Columbia - CBC News
Amid Gay Boycott, Stolichnaya Downplays Russian Identity | World | RIA Novosti

This is just a demonstration of the political spin, loss of logic and manipulation of things - so even though I am not a fan of Putin whatsoever, I can say with confidence, that this is all a political sham to milk the liberal left and stir up **** since it's so easy to with brainwashed people.

Originally Posted by Lampada

Hanna, is it really you? I am lost... Could it be that somebody's kidnapped your nickname?

You've been blind for years, and now you can see! Congrats?

Originally Posted by Eric C.

You've been blind for years, and now you can see! Congrats?

You might be right, I guess. I seldom have enough time or interest to read everything closely.
But, please, everybody stay calm and, please, refrain from personal insults.
As always, most all personal ideological positions is accepted here.