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Thread: Перестройка, также до и после

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    Почтенный гражданин DrBaldhead's Avatar
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    Перестройка, также до и после

    Off-topic from 'Putin’s Syria role deserving of Nobel Peace Prize' - RT


    Quote Originally Posted by 14Russian View Post
    His brand of 'neo-sovietism' fits in with them.
    Кто не жалеет о распаде Советского Союза, у того нет сердца; кто хочет воссоздать его в прежнем виде, у того нет головы. /
    Those who do not regret the collapse of the Soviet Union have no heart; those who want to recreate it in its original form are out of their minds.

    Putin

    Alas, no "neo-sovietism" for us right now.
    Last edited by Lampada; October 11th, 2013 at 07:54 PM.

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    Почтенный гражданин 14Russian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrBaldhead View Post
    Кто не жалеет о распаде Советского Союза, у того нет сердца; кто хочет воссоздать его в прежнем виде, у того нет головы. /
    Those who do not regret the collapse of the Soviet Union have no heart; those who want to recreate it in its original form are out of their minds.

    Putin

    Alas, no "neo-sovietism" for us right now.
    That is what he's trying for. Various Russians have said so.
    Quote Putin some more. It's amusing.
    Last edited by Lampada; October 9th, 2013 at 11:36 AM. Reason: Disrespectful and insulting comments

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    Властелин Deborski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrBaldhead View Post
    Кто не жалеет о распаде Советского Союза, у того нет сердца; кто хочет воссоздать его в прежнем виде, у того нет головы. /
    Those who do not regret the collapse of the Soviet Union have no heart; those who want to recreate it in its original form are out of their minds.

    Putin

    Alas, no "neo-sovietism" for us right now.
    I am familiar with that quote. And having lived in the Soviet Union, I can attest that not everything about it was wrong. It was not paradise, but it was not the evil empire Reagan said it was, either. Putin's statement echoes my sentiment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deborski View Post
    I am familiar with that quote. And having lived in the Soviet Union, I can attest that not everything about it was wrong. It was not paradise, but it was not the evil empire Reagan said it was, either. Putin's statement echoes my sentiment.
    Deb, we seem to have discussed it a lot before, but apparently I have to say it one more time - you were to the USSR during the Perestroika!; by the time you arrived there, they had already gotten rid of the evil empire status, and even Reagan confirmed back then they had; from that perspective, there were some good sides, yeah, but what if you went there in the mid-1970s? I really doubt you would like it there.

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    Властелин Deborski's Avatar
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    Tag teaming it, eh?

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    Почтенный гражданин dtrq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric C. View Post
    but what if you went there in the mid-1970s? I really doubt you would like it there.
    But most Russians who lived in those times will say that 70s was much better than perestroika.

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    Властелин Deborski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtrq View Post
    But most Russians who lived in those times will say that 70s was much better than perestroika.
    Perestroika was actually a very difficult time. The economy was in ruins. But I talked with enough Russians to actually form a very clear picture of what their lives were like in the 70's and 80's. It was not the nightmare we were told it was in the west. It wasn't perfect. But it wasn't a horrible place where no one could speak aloud and the KGB dragged everyone off into the night, either.

    But even during perestroika, when there was not enough to eat and there was so much uncertainty about the future, most people I came into contact with were kind. There were very few Russians I ever met whom I would consider "rude." That has changed. Today, rudeness seems much more commonplace than during Soviet times and I think it is a symptom of capitalism and not just because I am foreign.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dtrq View Post
    But most Russians who lived in those times will say that 70s was much better than perestroika.
    Yeah, their illusion of happiness was taken away from them, but the thing is, they couldn't have that illusion forever, and sooner or later it would happen anyway; as one escapee from the USSR described that system in one sentence, "The reason for your happiness is that you don't have a clue of how unhappy you are" ("Ваше счастье в том что вы не знаете как плохо вы живете")

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    Почтенный гражданин 14Russian's Avatar
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    More censorship again but it's no suprise in this forum by now. I cannot ask why someone is 'liking' a post? LOL! This site continues to get worse with the censorship and absurd topics/posts in the politics forum. I guess it's populated now by Marxist Americans and Russians.

    "Neo-sovietism ' Oh, what's that?' Either Baldy lies or he's totally indoctrinated by his master, Mr. Putin.

    Russia revs up “PRISM on steroids” to monitor all Winter Olympics communications | Naked Security

    People here have been bashing the USA about NSA and I agreed with the critiques just by principle. Yet, here it is, the same, with 'Neo-Soviet' Russia. The USA and many other countries (including the UK) are engaging in these police state tactics. This is 1984, people. But, of course, Pootie gets a free pass here. What a joke. This is what I am talking about with regards to brainwashing. Saying it or accusing one of being so, is not 'childish.' Only someone who already has blinders on will say that. It's a way of avoiding criticism. If that excuse is accepted, all is lost and freedom of expression diminishes until finally, almost everything gets censored and silenced.

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    Властелин Deborski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric C. View Post
    "The reason for your happiness is that you don't have a clue of how unhappy you are" ("Ваше счастье в том что вы не знаете как плохо вы живете")
    The same could be said for people in the US right now.

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    Властелин Deborski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 14Russian View Post
    More censorship again but it's no suprise in this forum by now. I cannot ask why someone is 'liking' a post? LOL! This site continues to get worse with the censorship and absurd topics/posts in the politics forum. I guess it's populated now by Marxist Americans and Russians.

    "Neo-sovietism ' Oh, what's that?' Either Baldy lies or he's totally indoctrinated by his master, Mr. Putin.

    Russia revs up “PRISM on steroids” to monitor all Winter Olympics communications | Naked Security

    People here have been bashing the USA about NSA and I agreed with the critiques just by principle. Yet, here it is, the same, with 'Neo-Soviet' Russia. The USA and many other countries (including the UK) are engaging in these police state tactics. This is 1984, people. But, of course, Pootie gets a free pass here. What a joke. This is what I am talking about with regards to brainwashing. Saying it or accusing one of being so, is not 'childish.' Only someone who already has blinders on will say that. It's a way of avoiding criticism. If that excuse is accepted, all is lost and freedom of expression diminishes until finally, almost everything gets censored and silenced.
    Yes. Clearly the conversation becomes so much less civilized when we edit out such profound and intellectual statements as:

    "You are a moron"

    "You are stupid"

    "The person who liked your post is an idiot"

    Etc.

    Obviously, in order for the conversation to become more adult, we should call each other idiots and morons and insult other until the discussion resembles a drunken tavern brawl. And only then, when the loud and angry people are free to insult everyone they disagree with, and those who care for more substantive discussion have been bullied and finally leave, can we finally say we have achieved true "freedom of speech."

    /sarcasm off

    I would suggest that you engage in more conversations on youtube. There you will find the free, uncensored rage that you appear to admire.

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    Почтенный гражданин dtrq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deborski View Post
    The same could be said for people in the US right now.
    And for any nation and era

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    Властелин Deborski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtrq View Post
    And for any nation and era
    I completely agree!

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    Властелин Deborski's Avatar
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    Troll (Internet) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Troll: In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people,[1] by posting inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a forum, chat room, or blog), either accidentally[3][4] or with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[5] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dtrq View Post
    And for any nation and era
    Maybe a little bit offtop, but still: if you could choose when you live, now or 40 years ago, provided you would be in the same exact area you're now in, what would you choose?

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    Властелин Deborski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric C. View Post
    Maybe a little bit offtop, but still: if you could choose when you live, now or 40 years ago, provided you would be in the same exact area you're now in, what would you choose?
    It would depend on which of my friends were there

    Because more than my country, or any specific time, I love my friends.

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    Властелин Deborski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric C. View Post
    Let's assume all of your friends would go back in time with you =)
    But we would all have to live here in Spokanistan? There would not be any real difference between now and 40 years ago! LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deborski View Post
    But we would all have to live here in Spokanistan? There would not be any real difference between now and 40 years ago! LOL
    That's the thing! (if you take out of consideration the progress humanity has made over these years, though )

    While in Russia, there would be a fantastically huge difference.

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    Почтенный гражданин dtrq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric C. View Post
    Maybe a little bit offtop, but still: if you could choose when you live, now or 40 years ago, provided you would be in the same exact area you're now in, what would you choose?
    40 years ago there was nothing in the area where I'm now, lol. Anyway, of course I'll choose present days, because this is what I used to live in. But a lot of older generation people would choose 'Back in the USSR'.

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    Властелин Deborski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric C. View Post
    That's the thing! (if you take out of consideration the progress humanity has made over these years, though )

    While in Russia, there would be a fantastically huge difference.
    It depends on the area you are talking about in any country, I suppose. I've visited some of the places where I grew up and the biggest changes I noticed were 1) the population increase/number of houses 2) more shopping malls, more franchise restaurants and fewer locally-owned businesses 3) less wild places, more encroachment on formerly wild lands.

    In Russia, changes have been sweeping in the major cities, especially in Moscow and St. Petersburg as well as others - but life in rural villages has barely changed at all. There are still many villages where people draw water from communal wells, have no internet access, and sometimes no roads or the area is accessible only by horse or by boat, if it is by a river for example.

    I am not opposed to all of the changes which have happened. Some changes are great. But not all change is for the best.

    If I could live in Spokane 40 years ago, as opposed to today, I might pick then because even though these days there are gains in human rights (civil rights, women's rights, gay rights, etc), the income disparity is greater than it has been before and the cost of land has greatly increased. Forty years ago, a common person could still hope to make something of himself, have a good career and a paid retirement if he was loyal to his company. He could buy a home, provide for his family and although we didn't have as many shopping malls or McDonalds or Walmarts back then, there were still many locally owned businesses where people did their shopping. And the wilderness was still almost pristine in many places.

    Now, America is beginning to resemble one big sprawling strip mall from coast to coast. I guess it is inevitable. But not all of that progress is good.

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