Thread: Idioms and fraseological units.

I'm confused with great number of idioms.
For example - He is my cup of tea. It means (as our teachers teach us) - Он в моем вкусе.
but this idiom sounds a little bit old.

And another one - To make a heavy weather of, wet blanket, noisy Parker and a lot of others.
I can't understand one thing - зачем учить нас тому, что люди в речи не употребляют?

And I think, that if they tell us to learn them by heart it isn't useful for us. There are several reasons. The first - is that we can't understand the meaning and the second is that if we use them, almost nobody will understand us!

So what do you think?
Are these idioms useful for remembering?



By the way! I passed my English Exam today and got 5!
COOL!!!!!!!!!!!!! :P

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Now then, idioms.. thorny question. I'm afraid it's just a load of cr*p, what your teachers teach you. The unfortunate truth is that idiom changes very rapidly 'on the ground', and in places like Russia, the materials that the teachers use are invariably out of date. Partly because of the difficulties of trying to visit an English speaking country, most of the teachers don't have much of a clue about idiom. If they make you memorise them, they're reducing living language to a pointless academic game.

Hmm sorry that was a bit strong wasn't it?

Most of the examples in your list are old-fashioned British idiom. You don't need them.

You need to read tons and watch tons. Your English is already very good, clearly. Start watching Hollywood movies (on DVD with subtitles if necessary), and don't stop. Even if they contain Adam Sandler, which is admittedly highly injurious to one's mental health.

And I think, that

Bit of L1 interference here. The comma is inappropriate in English. Just a little example. But most of what you wrote was absolutely fine.

Waxwing is right - many idioms are very old fashioned. To sound authentic and up to date when you speak English, you would be better picking up everyday speech from TV and movies. If you use too many of these older idiomatic phrases you would sound strange. EG I'm making heavy weather of explaining this to you but I'm such a nosey parker I couldn't resist giving my opinion.
The other thing is that it's generally OK to use them in speech but not in written work. English compositions whether creative or factual should not contain these sort of phrases. In creative writing they would be considered cliched and hackneyed and a student would be encouraged to find their own description.
if you used them in speech to an English speaking person - in the UK at least - you would be understood, but if you use them incorrectly because you didn't understand them, you might get some funny looks!!
He's my cup of tea or I really fancy that bloke. The first would be laughed at. The second - everyone would know what you meant. Only don't say it to Vending Machine.
PS Well done on your exam!

Now then, idioms.. thorny question. I'm afraid it's just a load of cr*p

Sorry, what is cr*p...........?
I don't know.

And anyway, it's stupid to make us learn by heart the idioms which are old and nobody use them.

And about movies.
If I watch a movie, I can anderstand only a plot, because very often the spech is TOO quick, that I can't listen words!
Я слушаю слова, но не слышу!
But, anyway the phrases from movies are more useful, than these idioms!

For example - He is my cup of tea. It means (as our teachers teach us) - Он в моем вкусе.
but this idiom sounds a little bit old.

This one I still hear once in a while, so I guess it's still used, but not often.

Originally Posted by Nuta

And about movies.
If I watch a movie, I can anderstand only a plot, because very often the spech is TOO quick, that I can't listen words!
Я слушаю слова, но не слышу!

вот почему я сказал с субтитрами (но обязательно английскими) .. поэтому DVD нужен

I can't understand Russian movies at full speed either .. although your English is a little better than my Russian, честно

Congratulations on doing well in your English exam Nuta!!!

Cr*p means c..r..a..p : nonsense, rubbish, a taboo word for faeces.

Foreign films - I started learning Russian at the beginning of this year: just a few hours each week. I’m watching Бригада, and I understand very little of the Russian language, especially the slang and the gangster words. But I hope that just by listening, my ability to hear the sounds of the Russian language will improve.

I agree with waxwing in part

Originally Posted by Nuta

He is my cup of tea. It means (as our teachers teach us) - Он в моем вкусе.
but this idiom sounds a little bit old.

And another one - To make a heavy weather of, wet blanket, noisy Parker and a lot of others.

cup of tea can mean, “Он в моем вкусе” but most often this idiom is used in the negative. For example, “I didn’t like the film much. It wasn’t really my cup of tea”.

You use, “To make heavy weather of something” when something is made more difficult than is necessary. In the old days, a ship made ‘heavy weather’ of a storm if it had a particularly rough passage, or journey. This is where I think the idiom comes from.

Wet blanket is not often used these days – see http://www.englishdaily626.com/idioms.php#Wet%20Blanket

noisy Parker is wrong. It should be nosy Parker and refers to a prying person, a person who is always trying to find out about your private affairs and what you are doing.

So, how serious is it if you get an idiom wrong? Well if you get it completely wrong then you will not be properly understood. But if you get it slightly wrong then I don’t think it’s a big problem: actually I think it’s rather endearing – don’t forget your English will always be better than our Russian . Native English speakers are always getting them slightly wrong.

If someone drinks a lot of alcohol then you can say that they, "drink like a fish". So, if you say that someone, “drinks like a horse” – then – who cares!

My advice Nuta, is if you are not sure about an idiom surf the Internet for some reference material and examples. Don’t forget that there is a load of cr*p on the Internet

Originally Posted by waxwing

вот почему я сказал с субтитрами (но обязательно английскими) .. поэтому DVD нужен

Trouble is, most of the sub-titles are not exactly what has been said, let alone what is being said. Do you agree

Well yeah, it's a reasonable point. With these pirated ones we get here you see all sorts of rubbish. But a lot of them are OK, it depends on the film. Like for example - 8 mile (and good lord, I do not recommend that to an Intermediate student of English like Nuta) - hilariously awful.


-> Mike, what I am criticising is not the use of these idioms per se, but the idea that this is a valuable way to spend English learning time - memorising old fashioned British idioms. I teach here, and I know the psychology and the pedagogy which is popular. There is no point trying to teach 'clever', 'trendy' usage if that usage is out of date. Nuta is one of many, many astute students who pick up on the irrelevance of what they are being taught.
But it's not exactly a disgrace, it's just not what it might be.

By the way mike, you mightn't have spotted it, but I'm British and I did know what 'duffer' and 'idler' meant - it's a connected point. When I see a translation like this in a dictionary, I find it impossible to infer what the real significance of the word is in everyday usage, because words like 'duffer' are, once again, old fashioned British idiom. короче, мне надо лучший словарь

Originally Posted by waxwing

Mike, what I am criticising is not the use of these idioms per se, but the idea that this is a valuable way to spend English learning time - memorising old fashioned British idioms.

Yes, I agree waxwing. I'm just saying that if you get them slightly wrong you might not be consigned to the linguists' scrapheap

Originally Posted by waxwing

By the way mike, you mightn't have spotted it, but I'm British and I did know what 'duffer' and 'idler' meant - it's a connected point. When I see a translation like this in a dictionary, I find it impossible to infer what the real significance of the word is in everyday usage, because words like 'duffer' are, once again, old fashioned British idiom. короче, мне надо лучший словарь

I was confident that you must be: I regret that I am indeed a 'nosy parker' and your comment did cause me to consider your Profile and to career around your postings looking for clues, so to speak

I'm not sure that any single tom, dictionary or otherwise, will be sufficient to understand the meaning of some word or phrase - there is so much scope for misunderstanding and confusion. Take the word mug for example - only three letters but several decent books to get to grips with the range of meanings.

I dropped in to this Forum to learn a little Russian and find myself pontificating on some fine point of English, or language generally, about which I know Jack - sorry

(By the way, is mightn't a word. I couldn't find it in my dictionary )

Originally Posted by Nuta

Now then, idioms.. thorny question. I'm afraid it's just a load of cr*p

Sorry, what is cr*p...........?
I don't know.

And anyway, it's stupid to make us learn by heart the idioms which are old and nobody use them.

And about movies.
If I watch a movie, I can anderstand only a plot, because very often the spech is TOO quick, that I can't listen words!
Я слушаю слова, но не слышу!
But, anyway the phrases from movies are more useful, than these idioms!

Cr&p is not all that rude. You're allowed to say it on children's television.

I can't understand Russian movies at full speed either .. although your English is a little better than my Russian, честно

Thank you VERY much! I'm really glad that my English is rather good!

Wet blanket is not often used these days – see http://www.englishdaily626.com/idioms.php#Wet%20Blanket

THank you for the site! It's very interesting and really useful!
By the way, does anybody know some others sites, connected with Englsh?
I know only EFL.ru, http://www.englishclub.narod.ru/, may be some others, but I don't remember exactly.
And maybe somebody can add some sites?