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Thread: Is there pronouncing table for ъ?

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    Is there pronouncing table for ъ?

    Hello

    The explanation of the letter "ъ" is to make the previous letter "soft".

    But what is "soft"???

    I get example that the L pronounce as li.

    What if all the other letters?
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    Re: Is there pronouncing table for ъ?

    Quote Originally Posted by nadavvin
    The explanation of the letter "ъ" is to make the previous letter "soft".

    But what is "soft"???

    I get example that the L pronounce as li.

    What if all the other letters?
    Consonants become soft before ь, not ъ. That's why ь is called the soft sign. Ъ is the hard sign.

    Softening a.k.a. palatalization means you raise the middle part of your tongue higher toward your upper palate.
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    Ты прости, сестра моя, Югославия...
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    Re: Is there pronouncing table for ъ?

    Historically "Ъ" and "Ь" were short vowels.

    You can imagine instead of Ъ а very short vowel Ы (or О or У)
    and instead of Ь а very short vowel И

    Quote Originally Posted by nadavvin
    I get example that the L pronounce as li.
    You should start to prononce Л in such a way as it is followed by the sound И, but you should not really pronounce this И.
    УГОЛЬ ~ УГОЛ(very very very short и)

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    Off-topic: I am so glad they no longer add ъ to the end of every word in Russian. It looks kind of ugly.
    "С чий очи сънувам, чий е този лик обречен?
    Смъртен глас ми се причува и отеква с вик далечен
    Как да зърна да погледна, чуждий образ да прегърна,
    на лицето ми студено грях в надежда да превърна.."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yazeed
    Off-topic: I am so glad they no longer add ъ to the end of every word in Russian. It looks kind of ugly.
    Using articles in English also looks kind of ugly

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wowik
    Quote Originally Posted by Yazeed
    Off-topic: I am so glad they no longer add ъ to the end of every word in Russian. It looks kind of ugly.
    Using articles in English also looks kind of ugly
    What is articles? ( I didn't find something appreciate in the dictionary )

    Historically "Ъ" and "Ь" were short vowels.

    You can imagine instead of Ъ а very short vowel Ы (or О or У)
    and instead of Ь а very short vowel И

    nadavvin wrote:
    I get example that the L pronounce as li.

    You should start to prononce Л in such a way as it is followed by the sound И, but you should not really pronounce this И.
    УГОЛЬ ~ УГОЛ(very very very short и)
    Thank you

    Is there any voice example of УГОЛЬ and УГОЛ to know how short it should be?

    I have another problem if Ы which describe as something between и and y

    Is there better explanation? (and not how to place the the tongue since it is not very helpful)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wowik
    Quote Originally Posted by Yazeed
    Off-topic: I am so glad they no longer add ъ to the end of every word in Russian. It looks kind of ugly.
    Using articles in English also looks kind of ugly
    Нетъ.
    "С чий очи сънувам, чий е този лик обречен?
    Смъртен глас ми се причува и отеква с вик далечен
    Как да зърна да погледна, чуждий образ да прегърна,
    на лицето ми студено грях в надежда да превърна.."

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    Quote Originally Posted by nadavvin
    Is there any voice example of УГОЛЬ and УГОЛ to know how short it should be?
    http://www.lingvozone.com/LingvoSoft-On ... Dictionary

    Try 'мол' and 'моль'. Beggining sounds not good, but difference in 'л' souns more or less clearly.

    I have another problem if Ы which describe as something between и and y
    Is there better explanation? (and not how to place the the tongue since it is not very helpful)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Close_cent ... nded_vowel
    There is sound sample.
    I don't think explanation like '/sound/ is somthing between /letter/ and /letter/' useful.
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    http://www.lingvozone.com/LingvoSoft-On ... Dictionary

    Try 'мол' and 'моль'. Beggining sounds not good, but difference in 'л' souns more or less clearly.
    Thanks.

    But when I hear 'моль', It's sound like 'moy' (English pronouncing)

    and I here many times...
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    Quote Originally Posted by nadavvin
    But when I hear 'моль', It's sound like 'moy' (English pronouncing)
    Hahaha, me too!

    I don't think it's a Russian who says it...
    In Russian, all nationalities and their corresponding languages start with a lower-case letter.

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    ЛЬ and Л are difficult sounds to use for distinguishing palatalization because they are liquids. Take a solid STOP consonant like P, T, or K, or B, D, or G:
    мат -- мать /mat/ - /mat'/
    пот -- пётр /pot/ - /p'otr/ vocative: Эй, Пёт!!
    кот -- ткёт /kot/ - /tk'ot/

    Эх, братья, старик русский язык забывает ... не знаю правильно это слово в последнем примере -- ткёт ли тчёт ли.... И лезть в словарь лень.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chaika
    ЛЬ and Л are difficult sounds to use for distinguishing palatalization because they are liquids. Take a solid STOP consonant like P, T, or K, or B, D, or G:
    мат -- мать /mat/ - /mat'/
    пот -- пётр /pot/ - /p'otr/ vocative: Эй, Пёт!!
    кот -- ткёт /kot/ - /tk'ot/

    Эх, братья, старик русский язык забывает ... не знаю правильно это слово в последнем примере -- ткёт ли тчёт ли.... И лезть в словарь лень.
    "ткёт" - правильно.
    Я только не поняла, что такое "vocative: Эй, Пёт!!". Это просто опечатка, ты забыл поставить "р"?
    In Russian, all nationalities and their corresponding languages start with a lower-case letter.

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    vocative: Эй, Пётр!!
    Nominative!

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    to nadavvin: by the way the letter Ы at first didn't exist in Russian, and was created by combining the two letters Ъ and И. So Ъ+И=Ы.
    Не плюй в колодец, пригодится водицы, напиться.

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    Эй Оль!

    Just kidding, there is not really a vocative in Russian as you know, but names that end in -a tend to lose that vowel in vocative-type expressions.

    Маш! Саш! for Маша Саша. I really don't know what happens to final /r/.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chaika
    Эй Оль!

    Just kidding, there is not really a vocative in Russian as you know, but names that end in -a tend to lose that vowel in vocative-type expressions.

    Маш! Саш! for Маша Саша. I really don't know what happens to final /r/.
    Then "vocative" is Эй, Петь! (а не "Пёт").
    It's nothing happens to final r, because it's from Петя, not from Пётр (from Пётр it's just Пётр ).
    In Russian, all nationalities and their corresponding languages start with a lower-case letter.

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    Aга (=duh!), спасибо большое, Оля-просветительница!

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    Quote Originally Posted by chaika
    Эй, Оль!

    Just kidding, there is not really a vocative in Russian as you know, but names that end in -a tend to lose that vowel in vocative-type expressions.

    Маш! Саш! for Маша Саша. I really don't know what happens to final /r/.
    It is colloquial only!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yazeed
    Off-topic: I am so glad they no longer add ъ to the end of every word in Russian. It looks kind of ugly.
    The reason why that hard sign was at the end of Russian words was because, as a previous poster mentioned, the letters ь and ъ used to be short-vowel sounds. All words in Russian used to end in open-sylables, that is, in a vowel sound.

    Because all words ended in either a vowel
    A soft sign (which used to be a vowel sound)
    A hard sign (which used to be a vowel sound)
    An Й which follows a vowel sound.

    Gradually the hard and soft sign lost their vowel sounds (a very long time ago) and took their modern day fucntions as soundless letters. Soft signs at the end of words now palatised the final consonant, whereas the hard sign was redundant at the end of words.

    When the 1918 spelling reform took place and ъ was removed from the final position, erasing the last remnents of the open-vowel system.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TATY
    ... erasing the last remnents of the open-vowel system.
    Ещё много напоминаний осталось от той поры — беглые гласные в корне,... предлоги в/во, с/со

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