Thread: Examples of Russian dialects?

Wow, lots of interesting information here.
This is sooooooooooo weird -- I never could have imagined that there are no accents at all.

Imagine if the EU could the same conformity....... One language, no dialects. What money it could save! The EU translation "circus" is one of the biggest jokes about the EU..

Originally Posted by BappaBa

А учатся они по одному общему учебнику, или для каждой области учебник свой?

No they would use the same text books.
It's just that people pronounce the words differently. And they probably (bitpicker will know) also use their "own" words for many everyday things...

Sweden has the same situation that Bitpicker is describing. If you drive for five hours from Stockholm you can get to places where it's VERY hard to understand what people are saying. They understand me because they are used to the Stockholm accent from TV and radio. But I sometimes don't have a clue what they're saying. Younger people can usually change their speech so it becomes easier to understand. But some older people can't...

Coffeecups explanation was interesting:

Originally Posted by CoffeeCup

Here is one [sgy71s51]specific to[/sgy71s51] Russia-specific point to add. Just at the beginning of the 20th century, there was [sgy71s51]the[/sgy71s51] a Russian language reform which changed the alphabet and brought many logical rules into the grammar. Of course all this only made any sense for educated people, [sgy71s51]which[/sgy71s51] who amounted (just after world war I and 1917 revolution) to a very negligible number. But the new Russian government (yes, those people from 1917) made an incredible thing using their unlimited power; they EDUCATED all the Russian people. The "new Russian" became the subject of education and there couldn't be any dialects for the "new Russian". As a result, today we have a huge territory [sgy71s51]with the[/sgy71s51] where people are speaking in [sgy71s51]the[/sgy71s51] just one [sgy71s51]only[/sgy71s51] Russian dialect.

(coffeecup there was nothing seriously wrong in that paragraph - your English is outstanding.. just a few minor things that I felt inspired to point out.. No big deal...)

Educating such a large amount of people in such short time has got to be one of the biggest achievements of the revolution. Who knows what had happened if the revolution had never taken place... Some people might still be toiling the land and hardly able to read.

I guess the spelling reform that you mentioned is the one where some old Cyrillic letters were removed from normal use...?

To give an example of the variance of German dialects, here's the prayer 'Our Father' in various variants. Note that the dialectal renditions are mostly phonetic, as dialects have no standard orthography.

First, Russian:

Отче наш, сущий на небесах! да святится имя Твое;
да приидет Царствие Твое; да будет воля Твоя и на земле, как на небе;
хлеб наш насущный дай нам на сей день;
и прости нам долги наши, как и мы прощаем должникам нашим;
и не введи нас в искушение, но избавь нас от лукавого.
Ибо Твое есть Царство и сила и слава во веки. Аминь.

English (plain, modern):

Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
your kingdom come,
your will be done,
on earth as in heaven.
Give us today our daily bread.
Forgive us our sins
as we forgive those who sin against us.
Save us from the time of trial
and deliver us from evil.
For the kingdom, the power, and the glory are yours
now and for ever. Amen.

High German:
Vater unser im Himmel,
geheiligt werde dein Name.
Dein Reich komme.
Dein Wille geschehe,
wie im Himmel so auf Erden.
Unser tägliches Brot gib uns heute.
Und vergib uns unsere Schuld,
wie auch wir vergeben unseren Schuldigern.
Und führe uns nicht in Versuchung,
sondern erlöse uns von dem Bösen.
Denn dein ist das Reich und die Kraft und die Herrlichkeit in Ewigkeit.
Amen.

Alemannic dialect:

Vàter unser ém Hémmel,
Gheiligt sei dine Nàmme
di Rich soll komme
Dine Wille soll gschah,
wie ém Hémmel, so uf d'r Arde.
Unser alltajlige Brot géb uns hét,
un vergéb uns unsri Schuld
wie oi mér én dane vergann,
wo àn uns gschuldigt hän.
Un fiehr uns nét én d'Versüechung,
àwer erlees uns vom Beese.

Bavarian dialect:
Insa vådar im himö,
ghàiligt soi werdn dài' nåm.
Dài' ràich soi kema,
dài' wuin soi gschegn,
wia-r-im himö, aso àf dar eadn.
Gib ins hàind insa täglis broud,
und vargib ins insar schuid,
wia-r-à mia dene vagebm,
dé an ins schuidig wordn sàn.
Und fiar ins nét in d vasuachung,
sundan darles ins vom ibö.

Letzeburgian (spoken in Luxemburg):

Eise Papp am Himmel,
däin Numm sief gehellegt.
Däi Räich soll kommen,
däi Wëll soll geschéien
wéi am Himmel sou op der Äerd.
Gëff eis haut eist deeglecht Brout,
verzei eis eis Schold,
wéi mer och deene verzeien,
déi an eiser Schold sinn.
Féier eis net an d'Versuchung,
mee maach eis fräi vum Béisen.
Well däint ass d'Räich an d'Kraaft
an d'Herrlechkeet an Éiwegkeet.

Plattdeutsch (northern German dialect):
Uns Vadder in'n Himmel!
Laat hilligt warrn dien Naam.
Laat kamen dien Riek.
Laat warrn dien Willen so as in'n Himmel,
so ok op de Eerd.
Uns dääglich Brood giff uns vundaag.
Un vergiff uns unse Schuld,
as wi de vergeven hebbt,
de an uns schüllig sünd.
Un laat uns nich versöcht warrn.
Mak uns frie vun dat Böse.
Denn dien is dat Riek un de Kraft un de Herrlichkeit in Ewigkeit.

Swabian:
Unser Fadder im Himmel,
dei Naame loss heilich sei.
Dei Reich loss kumme.
Dei Wille loss geduh sei,
uff die Erd wie im Himmel.
Unser deeglich Brot gebb uns heit,
Un vergebb unser Schulde,
wie mir die vergewwe wu uns schuldich sinn.
Un fiehr uns net in die Versuchung,
awwer hald uns vum Iewile.
Fer dei is es Reich, die Graft,
un die Hallichkeit in Ewichkeit.

And that's just a small selection, actually some of the dialectal Wikipedia articles for a given dialect give different versions according to how they speak in different regions within the same dialectal family. It's also interesting to see that text in other, historical versions of Germanic languages. This, for instance, is Old High German, ca. 700 - 1050, actually an Alemannic version:

Fater unsêr,
thû pist in himile,
uuîhi namun dînan,
qhueme rîhhi dîn,
uuerde uuillo diin,
sô in himile sôsa in erdu.
Prooth unsêr emezzihic kip uns hiutu,
oblâz uns sculdi unsêro,
sô uuir oblâzêm uns sculdîkêm,
enti ni unsih firleiti in khorunka,
ûzzer lôsi unsih fona ubile.

Robin

Johanna... Sorry for jumping in so late onto this thread... I hope you do not mind.

I too thought the same as you about Russian accents, so do not feel bad at all.
When I first started out and was going to mention something in my book about them and thankfully I learned from a member that there was no such animal!!! I was as flabbergasted as you. How could there not be ANY accents anywhere when I only need to travel a short distance to find native English speakers with accents different from my own who have grown up in the same state as me?

Originally Posted by bitpicker

...You can compare this situation to the US, where English used to be a second language for the people who first moved there, so that today East Coast and West Coast American English are less distinct from each other than the English spoken in any two British villages 50 miles apart.
Robin

Robin... first off, let me say that you are just a wealth of information about languages. All of your postings about language history and the depth in which you explain (on this thread and others) have been fascinating to read.

Secondly, while the east and west coasts (with the exception of New York, New Jersey and New England areas) may be getting less distinct, it is the speed at which we speak that is still very different. The east still speak at a much faster pace than the west and you will find this even if you call operator assistance. If you call information or weather, the pace at which the recorded information is given, is much faster and the words are clipped on the east coast compared to the west coast. When ever I travel to Los Angeles, I find myself wanting to pull the words out of people's mouths as they take too long to speak!

The southern states and midwest, those states are all together a different animal and you can tell people are from those areas as soon as they open their mouths. It is not only their accents, it is their pace and word choices.

Originally Posted by BappaBa

Originally Posted by bitpicker

People from more Southern areas, even if they speak what they think is High German, often speak a German so coloured by their Swabian, Frankonian, Saxonian or Bavarian areas that sometimes I just don't understand them.

А учатся они по одному общему учебнику, или для каждой области учебник свой?

В Германии школьное образование - дело отдельных федеральных земель, а не Бунда, то есть государства. Это не только причина разных, несогласованных между собой школьных книг, но и разница в самой школьной программе. Считается, что, например, абитур (степень образования, получаемая в гимназии; высшая из всех школьных), полученный в Баварии или Баден-Вюртемберг (юг Германии), "ценится" больше чем абитур откуда-нибудь с севера. Тут надо, однако, сказать, что центральные вопросы и темы абитура одинаковы по всей Германии, в этом плане земли каким-то чудом договорились.
Я неоднократно слыхал от учеников, переехавших сюда в Баварию, что тут немного тяжелей учиться. Но сам судить не берусь, ибо видал изнутри только баварские школы.

Originally Posted by rockzmom

Johanna... Sorry for jumping in so late onto this thread... I hope you do not mind.

Not at all - the situation with US accents is interesting since they aren't "ancient" accents as I understand it... Just perhaps related to the origins of the people who settled in the area, or... well who knows..? But it's interesting that America has some distinct accents despite being a "young" country, while Russia, an ancient country has not..

There is one area in the US that really fascinates me, called Appalachia.. A friend of mine has been there and I was really fascinated by her tales and pictures. It has quite a distinct accent, I understand, which sounds a bit comical but very friendly. The nature there is gorgeous and there is a hiking trail which seems great. This area is pretty high on my "dream holiday" list...

You should all come to Belgium! We have a different dialect in every town and village. Flanders (the Dutch-speaking part) is a bit over 13 000 km² and often it is almost impossible to understand each other when people speak their own dialect. I am from the east and I went to colleg in the west of Flanders, where I met mostly students from the West. Honestly, it took me a year to be able to fully understand a conversation . Even now, after 6 years of living here, I still occasionally have some problems.
Apart from dialects, there are also regional accents. Most people can usually tell by their speech where someone is originally from.
Nowadays, a mix is emerging. Not really standard Dutch, but not a dialect either. Standard Dutch is often considered high-brow so most people mix in some slang, dialect words and keep their regional accents.

These days though, dialects aren't spoken as often anymore. Standard Dutch is used on tv, in school, every official situation. So everyone of course understands standard Dutch but not everyone can speak it. Especially the older generation keeps speaking their dialect. Also, people move a lot more than they used to. My parents for example: my mom and dad are from different regions and speak different dialects but they moved to a third region (my dad as a kid, my mother after they married), but they don't speak that dialect. So my parents speak sort of a standard Dutch to each other and my brother and me. I never learned the dialect from my town although I can understand it.
In the West, dialects are more popular though. Which is one of the reason I had trouble understanding my friends for such a long time. They weren't used to talking standard Dutch (although they were able to) so I had to adapt. My best friend switches between dialect when she's with other friends and standard Dutch when she's just talking to me .

Originally Posted by Johanna

There is one area in the US that really fascinates me, called Appalachia.. A friend of mine has been there and I was really fascinated by her tales and pictures. It has quite a distinct accent, I understand, which sounds a bit comical but very friendly. The nature there is gorgeous and there is a hiking trail which seems great. This area is pretty high on my "dream holiday" list...

For a laugh, you might want to check out this old thread. I know that xRoosterx is from the Tennessee area; yet, I believe he stated that people said he sounds like he is from Boston and he has a mixture of native Russian and southern accent.

I have heard this type of accent before on certain words that Russian's pronounce, they sound very "Bostonian," like a Kennedy. Yet I am surprised that it happened to someone who has spent a major portion of their life (from childhood) in a real southern state.

I know we have other people from North Carolina on MR, I am not certain how close they are to the Appalachian area. As a child, I went to the Appalachian area many times. One of the sites you want to add to that dream vacation is the Smokey Mountains and Clingman's Dome. It is the highest point (6,643 feet) in Tennessee and a great hike.

Вот пара интересных статей по теме:
http://rus.1september.ru/2006/21/3.htm
http://www.childlit.ccn.org.ru/dokl09.htm

Есть Словарь русских народных говоров: http://litagents.ru/languagelern/russia ... 1.-a..html

- Look at that, look at that!
- What?
- It’s that Russian dude who when he speaks everybody in Russia understands. He’s a monster. Can you believe that?
- Jesus merciful Christ! You don’t say!

Just as we were all getting to be stuck up about our one distinction that places us high up above all the other nations in the world, looking down upon awestricken audience ready to deliver the prize, golden in all probability, Lampada swept us all away from the pedestal with those little links of hers. What is left now to be proud of?

Originally Posted by alexB

...Just as we were all getting to be stuck up about our one distinction that places us high up above all the other nations in the world, looking down upon awestricken audience ready to deliver the prize, golden in all probability, Lampada swept us all away from the pedestal with those little links of hers. What is left now to be proud of?

Like I am the only one who has access to Google.

Just as we were all getting to be stuck up about our one distinction that places us high up above all the other nations in the world

M? Who did say that having no dialects and accents is good? Finger that person.

Originally Posted by alexB

Lampada swept us all away from the pedestal with those little links of hers.

Sorry, didn't get it. What did those links change? Of course professional lingusts will find dialects or something like. It's their job. The point was one can hardly meet it in a real life.

Originally Posted by it-ogo

... What did those links change? Of course professional lingusts will find dialects or something like. It's their job. The point was one can hardly meet it in a real life.

In real life travelling could help.

Originally Posted by Lampada

In real life travelling could help.

Yep. Search and you will find. But hardly other way.

Edit: There was a time I was looking around for dialects and accents. No travels though. You see, in Donbass we have people of very different origin. Once I found a guy with something in his intonations made me guess he is originally from the Western Ukraine. I asked him. OMG, he was from Vladivostok.

When in Odessa I tried to find famous Odessa speaking. I was walking around the city and listening how people conversates with each other. From little children to very old. Accent not found. Pure Russian everywhere.

Originally Posted by Johanna

I guess the spelling reform that you mentioned is the one where some old Cyrillic letters were removed from normal use...?

Here are two links to wiki: Russian and English. Note that the English page briefly covers all the evolutional changes of the Russian alphabet while the Russian link is specific to the reform of 1918.

Originally Posted by Lampada

In real life travelling could help.

Lampada, I don't need to travel to listen to how some passer-by in the Crimea speaks, stopped by a TV journalist in the street.

Also, no one says people in Russia don't have speaking differences at all. The point is that the situation is absolutely different than in Europe or USA, or maybe some other places in the world: the distance between Moscow and Petersburg is big enough, but people speak the same way in both cities. I, personally, have been to some other cities in Russia, big and small (Tver, Tarusa, Sochi, Kostroma, Perm...). I also met people from many other towns in Moscow. If differences exist, they're very slight and casual. And mostly regarding pronunciation only, not vocabulary or grammar. In most cases no differences at all.

P.S. As for Kostroma, they almost all "окают" there, that's true.

Originally Posted by anon

Finger that person.

You mustn't say that! Particularly not in reference to women!

If you want to know what that actually means, search Google Images for "fingering" and turn off the "Safe Search" filter.... That's all I'm going to say....



But seriously, I know what you meant and you should actually say:
"Name that person"
"Identify that person" or perhaps
"Point that person out".

Hurrah for this single aspect of Russian which is actually EASY!


Thank you Peter the Great, Lenin and everybody else who made it so....

Oh, but there's the lack of different past tenses and of a subjunctive worth the name which is also very refreshing.

Originally Posted by Johanna

If you want to know what that actually means, search Google Images for "fingering" and turn off the "Safe Search" filter.... That's all I'm going to say....

Hmmm... I didn't know about that meaning. But in my filtered vocabulary there is even meaning "point out with a finger" for this word. Fascinating. My foreign nature should be a good excuse to use this word more free...

:"":

BTW, Someone told me a story about a Russian guy in Sweden. There was a Swedish girl who had a problem with some PC software. When the Russian guy told her "Give me your mouse and I will show you" all Swedes in the room found it very funny. Is it really so funny?

Haha, well you know I speak English as a foreign language too, and I have made some really embarrassing mistakes - particularly when I first moved to England and started using slang expressions before I really understood what they meant.

Yes, you are right that "Pointing fingers" is correct. For example:

Everybody was wondering who the office thief was. Many people started pointing fingers at colleagues whom they did not like...
(meaning that they spread rumours, insinuated or made accusations about who the thief might be)

English is FULL of illogical expressions and exceptions to the rules.
It's frankly impossible to learn them all unless you are exposed to spoken and written English every day... (Really, of all the languages in the world to be the common "lingua franca" English is really not very well suited since it's hard for most people to pronounce, has very illogical spelling and does not have consistent grammar...)

Re the joke about "mouse" -- this was funny to the Swedish guys because "mouse" in Swedish is quite similar to the English word (mus), and it is slang for private parts of women... Plus the rumour about Russian guys in Sweden is that they are very macho..

This joke probably wouldn't even be funny to an English speaking person! The Russian guy surely had no way of knowing about it, particularly if they were speaking in English.