Thread: Western Propaganda aka клюква lol

Очень похоже пародия на нее ))

В наших кинопродуктах ляпы не такие броские.

Киноляпы или "Да гранаты у него не той системы!" страница 168

I think USA has this kind of movies as a consequence of freedom of speech. Anyone with a budget can film a trash movie about evil Russians to fit the target audience's expectations. In USSR, on the other hand, there was censorship, and censorship doesn't necessarily mean "dissidents and free-thinkers", it also means "censorship of different kinds of trash no sane person wants to see", every movie had to have some profound message, morale (="evil propaganda of evil communists" , obviously dumb & ugly cowboys invading Vladivostok to build McDonalds restaurants isn't one of those, Soviet propaganda was about more specific & subtle political ideas.

Originally Posted by car

I think USA has this kind of movies as a consequence of freedom of speech. Anyone with a budget can film a trash movie about evil Russians to fit the target audience's expectations. In USSR, on the other hand, there was censorship, and censorship doesn't necessarily mean "dissidents and free-thinkers", it also means "censorship of different kinds of trash no sane person wants to see", every movie had to have some profound message, morale (="evil propaganda of evil communists" , obviously dumb & ugly cowboys invading Vladivostok to build McDonalds restaurants isn't one of those, Soviet propaganda was about more specific & subtle political ideas.

See, sane people usually choose to decide what they will see and what they won't, and don't rely on censorship doing it for them.

Originally Posted by car

I think USA has this kind of movies as a consequence of freedom of speech. Anyone with a budget can film a trash movie about evil Russians to fit the target audience's expectations. In USSR, on the other hand, there was censorship, and censorship doesn't necessarily mean "dissidents and free-thinkers", it also means "censorship of different kinds of trash no sane person wants to see", every movie had to have some profound message, morale (="evil propaganda of evil communists" , obviously dumb & ugly cowboys invading Vladivostok to build McDonalds restaurants isn't one of those, Soviet propaganda was about more specific & subtle political ideas.

Well the "target audience" get their expectations from these types of films. There is no other material readily available. That is why Hollywood's stereotyping of Russians is such a great pity. I suspect that many in the US base their understanding of Russians and Russia on what they see on TV and cinema.

It is not like the US produces a great deal of balanced documentaries about Russia, for instance. It was much worse during the Cold war, but contrary to what you might thing, things do not appear to have improved. To the degree that any documentaries were made during the cold war, they were about some negative aspect that would picture the enemy country in negative light. I think it's fair to say that the USSR produced documentaries that focussed on the negatives of the USA, such as rasism or class division.But I don't think it villified Americans in films at all, while this is/was standard fare in US entertainment i.e. "evil Russians".

Even in media like Reader's Digest or Time magazine they choose negative stories from Russia - the trend from the Cold War has continued although I think the twist has changed a bit. Now it seems more like Russians are depicted as unscrupolous, corrupt, ruthless and involved with criminality.

One trend from the Cold War was that if there ever was a nice Russian person in the film, it was somebody who wanted to defect, slept (literally) with the enemy or was persecuted by their country.

Я встречал финна, которые считал, что все - абсолютно все - россияне в той или иной степени мафиози. И он очень боялся любого русского, бедный парень.

Originally Posted by mishau_

Я встречал финна, которые считал, что все - абсолютно все - россияне в той или иной степени мафиози. И он очень боялся любого русского, бедный парень.

Yes, there is a bit of truth to this, sadly. I read how Finland *really* needs more people to learn Russian in school because it's very sought after by business due to the proximity to Russia. But kids don't choose Russian because they believe Russians are "bad" etc... There is even a campaign about studying Russian in school, but it has not been very successful and they have a shortage of people with Russian skills. Reading about this situation in both Finland and Sweden too, was one of the reasons I decided to pick up Russian in 2009. Still, the Finns know more about Russia, Russian culture and history than most European nations. The national interest is very much to have a good relationship with Russia - they've had that priority for a long time, with varying success....

In Helsinki you can watch Russian terrestrial TV with perfect reception and catch the train to St Petersburg that takes only a few hours. But instead of looking at the reality of their neighbouring country, they learn about Russia from American films that are so prejudiced that I'd call it "propaganda". To be honest there was quite a lot of criminality and vice by Russians in Helsinki in the 90s (I went to university for a term in Helsinki back then, and all the people who sold illegal alcohol and drugs were Russian, enough said....) but I think that has stopped a long time ago and everyone knows that the situation in Russia was terrible at the time - many people were driven into crime who would not have taken it up under normal circumstances.
Today - the only Russians in Stockholm where I live are normal, respectable tourists. Apparently the 3rd largest tourist group nowadays.

Originally Posted by Hanna

Yes, there is a bit of truth to this, sadly. I read how Finland *really* needs more people to learn Russian in school because it's very sought after by business due to the closeness to Russia. But kids don't choose Russian because they believe Russians are "bad" etc... There is even a campaign about studying Russian in school, but it has not been very successful and they have a shortage of people with Russian skills. Reading about this situation in both Finland and Sweden too, was one of the reasons I decided to pick up Russian in 2009. Still, the Finns know more about Russia, Russian culture and history than most European nations. The national interest is very much to have a good relationship with Russia - they've had that priority for a long time, with varying success....

In Helsinki you can watch Russian terrestrial TV with perfect reception and catch the train to St Petersburg that takes only a few hours. But instead of looking at the reality of their neighbouring country, they learn about Russia from American films that are so prejudiced that I'd call it "propaganda". To be honest there was quite a lot of criminality and vice by Russians in Helsinki in the 90s (I went to university for a term in Helsinki back then, and all the people who sold illegal alcohol and drugs were Russian, enough said....) but I think that has stopped a long time ago and everyone knows that the situation in Russia was terrible at the time - many people were driven into crime who would not have taken it up under normal circumstances.
Today - the only Russians in Stockholm where I live are normal, respectable tourists. Apparently the 3rd largest tourist group nowadays.

If a person can be "driven into crime" under whatever circumstances, it says a lot about them. (Deleted. L.)

Originally Posted by mishau_

Я встречал финна, которые считал, что все - абсолютно все - россияне в той или иной степени мафиози.

Ну, если по финским меркам, скажем, контрафактное ПО или фильмы с торрента - признак принадлежности к оргпреступности, то может он в чем-то и прав...

Originally Posted by Hanna

Still, the Finns know more about Russia, Russian culture and history than most European nations.

This Finnish guy even creates Russian culture. ))

Хаапасало, Вилле — Википедия



В 1991 г. Вилле Хаапасало отправился в Питер учиться на актёра и на себе испытал все прелести лихих 90-х. За один только год его 9 раз избили и 9 раз ограбили. Но Вилле не уехал и в итоге так полюбил Россию, что стал мечтать о роли Раскольникова. И даже написал на тему «Преступления и наказания» сценарий, в котором Раскольников не убивает старушку.

He is great!! Too bad he is an alcoholic.

And one thing worth mentioning about Finland - Russia: The Finns don't have a lot of complaints about the period when Finland belonged to Russia. According to them "Russia was better than Sweden" because Russia more or less left Finland alone.
It's kind of fascinating to think that Finnish heroes like Mannerheim were actually educated in Russia and spoke Russian.

I think they like Russia really, it's just the Winter War and the affect of all those Amercian films with bad-guy Russians that had a bit of effect. They used to say that they preferred Sweden over Russia in a comparison between their neighbours. But lately as Sweden has gone over the top with political correctness which is not so big in Finland, they might begin to change their minds.

Dropping the Visa requirement would do miracles, I think. Finland wants to relax it, or drop it altogether, it's just that they can't due to EU rules.

Just read recently about one of the biggest poets in the Swedish language - turns out she actually lived her life in what is now Russian territory (somewhere in Karelia, forgot where...) She spoke all three languages, as well as German (impressive!) but her mother tongue was Swedish so that was what she wrote most of her poetry in. She even went to school in St Petersburg, but the Russian revolution was completely disastrous for her family - they lost everything and she died at a sanatorium for tuberculosis. Very sad. Edit Södergran. Not my favourite poet, but some of her prose is nice and her story is rather fascinating from a modern perspective.

Originally Posted by Hanna

Too bad he is an alcoholic.

And a Russian Mafia member.

Полностью тред не читал.
Про «K-19: The Widowmaker» вспоминали?

Speaking of propaganda; The EU banned the "Press TV" alternative news channel and 19 other entertainment channels out of Iran.

So much for freedom of press!

You can look at whatever junk you want, as long as it doesn't have a controversial message.
I.e. there are about 10 big European news channels that pretty much say the same thing about everything, with a local twist. Then there are a few American ones that go along with the same message, just a bit more aggressive and dumbed down. Then there is Russia Today and Press TV that actually have a different message. And now one of them is shut down. Let's see how long until Russia Today is blocked! It's not available in any cable packages that I've come across, but at least those with Satellite can tune in to it.

Some think this was done in preparation for an attack on Iran, alternatively because PressTV reports the other side of the story in the Syria conflict.

Anyone who wants to sign the petition to the EU against banning PressTV, sign here! http://www.change.org/petitions/pres...s-tv-in-europe

Originally Posted by Hanna

Speaking of propaganda; The EU banned the "Press TV" alternative news channel and 19 other entertainment channels out of Iran.

So much for freedom of press!

You can look at whatever junk you want, as long as it doesn't have a controversial message.
I.e. there are about 10 big European news channels that pretty much say the same thing about everything, with a local twist. Then there are a few American ones that go along with the same message, just a bit more aggressive and dumbed down. Then there is Russia Today and Press TV that actually have a different message. And now one of them is shut down. Let's see how long until Russia Today is blocked! It's not available in any cable packages that I've come across, but at least those with Satellite can tune in to it.

Some think this was done in preparation for an attack on Iran, alternatively because PressTV reports the other side of the story in the Syria conflict.

Anyone who wants to sign the petition to the EU against banning PressTV, sign here! http://www.change.org/petitions/pres...s-tv-in-europe

It's obvious the EU (EU countries/states) are not interested in freedoms and thus, freedom of expression. But, Russia is no different. Putin et al. would have you believe that he is independent (that is an independent thinker and different from the EU) but that is false. The Russian government has similar policies and values to the EU. They also ban anything considered 'controversial.' There's many examples but the 'Innocence of Islam' video is just one e.g. What is interesting is that Putin speaks with a 'forked tongue' so to speak. On one hand, he'll speak up to ordinary Russians and say what many want to hear. He'll lecture the West and state his grievances with their policies while he actually does the same or similar. It's very clever since many Russians are preoccupied with daily routine (problems inherent etc.) so to really care about perceived infringements or violations against (their) freedoms takes a backseat or is barely acknowledged, if at all.

Most countries are pursuing a sort of police state. One only has to open their eyes and be open-minded.

Originally Posted by Hanna

Speaking of propaganda; The EU banned the "Press TV" alternative news channel and 19 other entertainment channels out of Iran.

So much for freedom of press!

You can look at whatever junk you want, as long as it doesn't have a controversial message.
I.e. there are about 10 big European news channels that pretty much say the same thing about everything, with a local twist. Then there are a few American ones that go along with the same message, just a bit more aggressive and dumbed down. Then there is Russia Today and Press TV that actually have a different message. And now one of them is shut down. Let's see how long until Russia Today is blocked! It's not available in any cable packages that I've come across, but at least those with Satellite can tune in to it.

Some think this was done in preparation for an attack on Iran, alternatively because PressTV reports the other side of the story in the Syria conflict.

Anyone who wants to sign the petition to the EU against banning PressTV, sign here! http://www.change.org/petitions/pres...s-tv-in-europe

Are you freaking kidding us here? Why would anybody want to watch Iranian (!!!!!!!) TV? To know what terrorists think of the world events? Do you even realize how creepy it sounds? But ok, if that's what you really feel like doing, why can't you find it streaming on the Internet and watch it there? What century does a person have to be stuck in to rely on cable/satellite TV while everything's been on the web for years?!!

Originally Posted by Eric C.

Are you freaking kidding us here? Why would anybody want to watch Iranian (!!!!!!!) TV? To know what terrorists think of the world events? Do you even realize how creepy it sounds? But ok, if that's what you really feel like doing, why can't you find it streaming on the Internet and watch it there? What century does a person have to be stuck in to rely on cable/satellite TV while everything's been on the web for years?!!

That's not the point.

It's about censorship and I think everyone can decide for themselves how to perceive the news or what is reported to them. Even if it's 'propaganda' or the most biased of sources, so what?

So these countries who pride themselves on liberties (i.e. freedom of expression), are saying nothing. What do you know about Eutelsat? Probably nothing.

Originally Posted by 14Russian

That's not the point.

It's about censorship and I think everyone can decide for themselves how to perceive the news or what is reported to them. Even if it's 'propaganda' or the most biased of sources, so what?

So these countries who pride themselves on liberties (i.e. freedom of expression), are saying nothing. What do you know about Eutelsat? Probably nothing.

I probably agree with you on that. Even if those terrorist skunks can in no way teach people liberties, it doesn't give anyone a right to cut them off, coz it does violate freedom of expression. So, what I was saying is that for me personally, it wouldn't be a big deal coz I can barely imagine myself watching that stuff, and besides, I could figure a way to watch what I wanna watch, even if it got removed from satellite broadcasting.

Generally I think it's sad that stereotypes are perpetuated in cinema Some films I think are made with the knowledge that many people will find them humorous in their absurdity, but overall I think artists and producers should be responsible in the films they make currently to be reasonable in their portrayals of life, don't you?

Я думаю к сожаление, что политическые выражения проживают в многие фильмах. Пожалуй остатки от прошлых времен.

Originally Posted by Eric C.

I probably agree with you on that. Even if those terrorist skunks can in no way teach people liberties, it doesn't give anyone a right to cut them off, coz it does violate freedom of expression. So, what I was saying is that for me personally, it wouldn't be a big deal coz I can barely imagine myself watching that stuff, and besides, I could figure a way to watch what I wanna watch, even if it got removed from satellite broadcasting.

That's probably one of the problems. Too many people think it's not a big deal.