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Thread: Occupy Wall Street around the world.... Your thoughts and feelings about it!

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  1. #1
    Hanna
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    Do they have any videos of what their goals are and how to achieve them?
    They would like to save your country for being pulled down into the gutter by greedy bankers.
    Is that good enough?
    And when you look at what these cockroaches have already done towards the US I am surprised that every normal American isn't behind OWST. Greed managed to literally destroy a superpower that was really quite decent and had everything going for it at the end of WW2.

    The Roman empire took a thousand years to destroy. Corporate and banking greed did the job to the USA in only a few decades. How ironical that nukes had nothing to do with it.

    And that's compared to the other recent superpower, the USSR, which hated itself so much that it just gave up and fell apart. Unprecedented!

    And meanwhile China's star is continuing to rise.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanna View Post
    They would like to save your country for being pulled down into the gutter by greedy bankers.
    Is that good enough?
    And when you look at what these cockroaches have already done towards the US I am surprised that every normal American isn't behind OWST. Greed managed to literally destroy a superpower that was really quite decent and had everything going for it at the end of WW2.

    The Roman empire took a thousand years to destroy. Corporate and banking greed did the job to the USA in only a few decades. How ironical that nukes had nothing to do with it.

    And that's compared to the other recent superpower, the USSR, which hated itself so much that it just gave up and fell apart. Unprecedented!

    And meanwhile China's star is continuing to rise.
    There's a lot more wrong with my country than greedy bankers and corporations. I think that both houses of congress and both political parties are doing a lot more damage than anyone else. I'm surprised that every normal American is not against OWST.

    Scott

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    Moderator Lampada's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fortheether View Post
    ... I'm surprised that every normal American is not against OWST.
    Scott
    Anonymous hacks cops coordinating Occupy evictions - PERF goes down - National Anonymous | Examiner.com

    People who left comments over there sound like normal Americans, don't they?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lampada View Post
    Anonymous hacks cops coordinating Occupy evictions - PERF goes down - National Anonymous | Examiner.com

    People who left comments over there sound like normal Americans, don't they?
    I used the term "normal Americans" in response to Hanna's use:

    And when you look at what these cockroaches have already done towards the US I am surprised that every normal American isn't behind OWST.

    Which implies that I'm not a normal American because I don't support OWST.

    Bill O'Reilly: The Failure of the 'Occupy Wall Street' Movement - Talking Points - The O'Reilly Factor - Fox News

    I do "walk the walk" with my life though. Recently at my work I needed some cash - I went to a Bank of America ATM - it wanted a $3 fee to get cash. I drove away and went to Shop Rite and bought some gum and with no fee got cash. I try to use the bank with the least amount of fees.



    Scott

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    This in my opinion is part of what is wrong with the USA:

    Arizona Lawmakers Say They Will Build Border Fence | Fox News

    The federal government should already be taking care of this. Illegal immigration is very expensive to us taxpayers.

    Scott

  6. #6
    Завсегдатай Throbert McGee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanna View Post
    Greed managed to literally destroy a superpower that was really quite decent and had everything going for it at the end of WW2.

    [Trying to work in a little Russian practice... ]


    Именно чья жадность, и жадность к чему?! (Namely whose greed, and greed for what?!)

    Do you mean the greed of a middle-class family who greedily wanted to eat steak four times a month (every Sunday), instead of having steak only once a month, and who greedily bought their made-in-China clothes at Walmart, instead of slightly more expensive made-in-Ukraine clothes from Macy's, so that they'd have some extra money for steak, and who greedily purchased an SUV because it had more cargo space so that they could save gas by going to the grocery store less often, and also because they greedily wanted to protect their children, and they believed that an SUV is more likely to survive a highway collision than a tiny economy car?
    Говорит Бегемот: "Dear citizens of MR -- please correct my Russian mistakes!"

  7. #7
    Hanna
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    For Americans who still have their heads in the sand... (you know who you are... )
    This is what your friends in the UK / BBC /say about you... and then you can imagine what the enemies say.



    Basically you've been had!!! And the Wall Street Occupiers are just trying to make people wake up and take back control from whatever shady interests are really erunning the country from behind the scenes. Drawing it deeper and deeper into irrepairable debt, while China is laughing all the way to the bank.

    Really, Americans have been had almost as badly as Russians were in the 1990s. Oh how the mighty fall...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanna View Post
    Basically you've been had!!! And the Wall Street Occupiers are just trying to make people wake up and take back control from whatever shady interests are really erunning the country from behind the scenes. Drawing it deeper and deeper into irrepairable debt, while China is laughing all the way to the bank.
    There are some countries where public debt is much higher than GDP and it doesn't change much for people living there (for example Japan)
    And there are some countries having public debt much lower than GDP but people living poorly there (including Russia and China)

    Also there are some countries having external debt much higher than GDP, meaning that business there is practically owned by other countries and Sweden for example is one of them (external debt of Sweden is 1.87 times higher than GDP of Sweden). Do you feel bad living in that country Hanna?

    My point is - w/o understanding the meaning of these number it is all just mass media populism

  9. #9
    Hanna
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doomer View Post
    Also there are some countries having external debt much higher than GDP, meaning that business there is practically owned by other countries and Sweden for example is one of them (external debt of Sweden is 1.87 times higher than GDP of Sweden). Do you feel bad living in that country Hanna?
    II actually think you have the wrong figure there, because I have heard something else but I can't be fussed to look it up. Regardless, I don't feel TERRIBLY bad, there are lots worse countries to live in. But this country has been going downhill, mark my words! When I grew up we were constantly told that we lived in the best welfare state and one of the fairest and most caring countries in the world. (pride cometh before fall... lol) But it was largely true. Now, it is not really better than anywhere else in Northern Europe and some of the old welfare institutions are a hinderance rather than helping people. Tons of publically owned institutions and organisations were sold off and their services have become worse, but more expensive. Trains being the best example. There are even private schools and nursing homes that are allowed to make a profit and take the profit out of the country. Not even the UK allows that.

    Back on topic:

    As for the economic situation not being noticeable in the country affected, of course it is!

    That's why people migrate. That's why there is unemployment. This type of thing happend in Ireland a few years ago, and also in Iceland. Young people are leaving both these countries in droves... the most resourceful people that is. They cannot get a job at home, or they do not get the level of salary that they want. London is absolutely swarmed with Irish people, and similarly Icelandic people go to Scandinavia. Something like this also happened in Latvia, and despite it being a very small country, I have run into lots of Latvians in London, in Stockholm.

    Greek people have already started migrating to Italy, the UK or anywhere really within the EU where they feel there are better opportunities for them.

    Within the EU you can move anywhere you want, as long as you can handle the language situation and get a job. Most educated people speak at least one foreign language fluently; English or the language of a large neighbouring country. So that's how people migrate.

    In the USA, I guess there is nowhere to migrate, since it is so big, there is no obvious neighbouring country to move to and people don't speak foreign languages in general. I suppose people will move to the more viable areas rather than staying in smaller cities.

    But don't be so naive to think that there will continue to be lots of well paid jobs available, cheap housing and affordable clothes and gadgets. Gradually your living standard will reduce with the currently outlook.
    Or it could take a nose dive if the dollar falls (not unlikely) or the Chinese decide to allow their currency to float.

    Take an office clerk in the US and compare it with an office clerk in China.
    Is there some built-in law of the universe that says that the Chinese person should live in a crummy small flat, riding a bike to work, while the American should live in a house and drive a car... just for starters, despite the fact that they are doing the same job and there is no difference in skill or efficiency.

    China is able to invest in infrastructure, education, hospitals etc now. They are building all the insitututions that makes a country great and influential. They are creating relationships in the third world based on trading and bartering skills for resources (as opposed to waging wars, placing military bases there, infiltration of spies and manipulation of foreign governments).

    Their country is run by a party that hand picks the elite from the top universities to form its' economic and foreign policies.
    They are not distracted by elections or undue media scrutiny (for better or worse), and they are not hugely influenced by lobbyists apart from fairly obvious practice of bribing officials - something they are trying to stamp out.

    They are running their country in a focussed way, with one goal - to get to the top, and take the people with them (at least eventually)

    Meanwhile the USA is run from behind the facade of "democracy" by bankers and large corporations that have no long term vision other than the next bonus or dividient payout. These interests don't care about the citizens, about the reputation of the country or about acting ethically in anyway. Things that it indignantly accuses its opponents of doing, it is doing itself in the open or behind the scene. It has become a hypocritical country in the extreme, whereas China as a comparison has never made any claims to being democratic or having a "human rights" focus, whatever this might mean.

    Don't get me wrong, I am not idolozing China, in fact I don't even like China. Nor am I speaking from any position of superior knowledge.

    But I think it's more honest towards the world and its own citizens about what it's about and what it's trying to achieve.
    It is run in a more focussed way that will ultimately benefit its citizens a lot more.

    In the US, the huge wealth that still exists does not benefit the majority and shortly as the dollar starts dropping, it will find its way to safer currencies , in offshore destinations where it will do absolutely no good to the Americans that generated it.

    You will be left with a huge military empire, no industry lead in any sector and a population who has lost its way.
    Perhaps a bit similar to what happened in Russia in the 1990s.

    Military might will be all that the US has left as leverage externally. And internally, the only way for the current elites to stay in power will be to restrict democracy even further, or find some excuse to stop it altogether. Since all big media in America is in the hands of these exact elites it shouldn't be hard to sell some propaganda to the people to get them to accept it.

    This is how I think things will develop in the USA unless you wake up and do something now.
    Like elect a completely new party to power, that is not corrupted by influence from lobbyists. Stop all wars immediately and focus on building up industry and improving education within the country.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanna View Post

    As for the economic situation not being noticeable in the country affected, of course it is!

    That's why people migrate. That's why there is unemployment. This type of thing happend in Ireland a few years ago, and also in Iceland. Young people are leaving both these countries in droves... the most resourceful people that is. They cannot get a job at home, or they do not get the level of salary that they want. London is absolutely swarmed with Irish people, and similarly Icelandic people go to Scandinavia. Something like this also happened in Latvia, and despite it being a very small country, I have run into lots of Latvians in London, in Stockholm.
    People move to a better place
    It is not a surprise for me

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanna View Post
    This is how I think things will develop in the USA unless you wake up and do something now.
    Like elect a completely new party to power, that is not corrupted by influence from lobbyists. Stop all wars immediately and focus on building up industry and improving education within the country.
    Good words
    You can probably point to the money source to change all that to greater good
    The bigger the economy the slower the changes
    As for wars - I don't support wars but you probably know that
    «Чтобы удержать революцию, нам нужна маленькая победоносная война»
    Wars already become a tool to keep crowd on a leash
    I like this saying from a good movie
    "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it."
    And a war "for democracy" is "good way" to keep people from asking questions about politics

  11. #11
    Завсегдатай Ramil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doomer View Post
    As for wars - I don't support wars but you probably know that
    «Чтобы удержать революцию, нам нужна маленькая победоносная война»
    Wars already become a tool to keep crowd on a leash
    The person who said this was killed shortly after that. And that little victorious war turned out to be a disaster.
    My point is - wars can get out of hand sometimes.
    Send me a PM if you need me.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanna View Post
    II actually think you have the wrong figure there, because I have heard something else but I can't be fussed to look it up. Regardless, I don't feel TERRIBLY bad, there are lots worse countries to live in. But this country has been going downhill, mark my words! When I grew up we were constantly told that we lived in the best welfare state and one of the fairest and most caring countries in the world. (pride cometh before fall... lol) But it was largely true. Now, it is not really better than anywhere else in Northern Europe and some of the old welfare institutions are a hinderance rather than helping people. Tons of publically owned institutions and organisations were sold off and their services have become worse, but more expensive. Trains being the best example. There are even private schools and nursing homes that are allowed to make a profit and take the profit out of the country. Not even the UK allows that.

    Back on topic:

    As for the economic situation not being noticeable in the country affected, of course it is!

    That's why people migrate. That's why there is unemployment. This type of thing happend in Ireland a few years ago, and also in Iceland. Young people are leaving both these countries in droves... the most resourceful people that is. They cannot get a job at home, or they do not get the level of salary that they want. London is absolutely swarmed with Irish people, and similarly Icelandic people go to Scandinavia. Something like this also happened in Latvia, and despite it being a very small country, I have run into lots of Latvians in London, in Stockholm.

    Greek people have already started migrating to Italy, the UK or anywhere really within the EU where they feel there are better opportunities for them.

    Within the EU you can move anywhere you want, as long as you can handle the language situation and get a job. Most educated people speak at least one foreign language fluently; English or the language of a large neighbouring country. So that's how people migrate.

    In the USA, I guess there is nowhere to migrate, since it is so big, there is no obvious neighbouring country to move to and people don't speak foreign languages in general. I suppose people will move to the more viable areas rather than staying in smaller cities.

    But don't be so naive to think that there will continue to be lots of well paid jobs available, cheap housing and affordable clothes and gadgets. Gradually your living standard will reduce with the currently outlook.
    Or it could take a nose dive if the dollar falls (not unlikely) or the Chinese decide to allow their currency to float.

    Take an office clerk in the US and compare it with an office clerk in China.
    Is there some built-in law of the universe that says that the Chinese person should live in a crummy small flat, riding a bike to work, while the American should live in a house and drive a car... just for starters, despite the fact that they are doing the same job and there is no difference in skill or efficiency.

    China is able to invest in infrastructure, education, hospitals etc now. They are building all the insitututions that makes a country great and influential. They are creating relationships in the third world based on trading and bartering skills for resources (as opposed to waging wars, placing military bases there, infiltration of spies and manipulation of foreign governments).

    Their country is run by a party that hand picks the elite from the top universities to form its' economic and foreign policies.
    They are not distracted by elections or undue media scrutiny (for better or worse), and they are not hugely influenced by lobbyists apart from fairly obvious practice of bribing officials - something they are trying to stamp out.

    They are running their country in a focussed way, with one goal - to get to the top, and take the people with them (at least eventually)

    Meanwhile the USA is run from behind the facade of "democracy" by bankers and large corporations that have no long term vision other than the next bonus or dividient payout. These interests don't care about the citizens, about the reputation of the country or about acting ethically in anyway. Things that it indignantly accuses its opponents of doing, it is doing itself in the open or behind the scene. It has become a hypocritical country in the extreme, whereas China as a comparison has never made any claims to being democratic or having a "human rights" focus, whatever this might mean.

    Don't get me wrong, I am not idolozing China, in fact I don't even like China. Nor am I speaking from any position of superior knowledge.

    But I think it's more honest towards the world and its own citizens about what it's about and what it's trying to achieve.
    It is run in a more focussed way that will ultimately benefit its citizens a lot more.

    In the US, the huge wealth that still exists does not benefit the majority and shortly as the dollar starts dropping, it will find its way to safer currencies , in offshore destinations where it will do absolutely no good to the Americans that generated it.

    You will be left with a huge military empire, no industry lead in any sector and a population who has lost its way.
    Perhaps a bit similar to what happened in Russia in the 1990s.

    Military might will be all that the US has left as leverage externally. And internally, the only way for the current elites to stay in power will be to restrict democracy even further, or find some excuse to stop it altogether. Since all big media in America is in the hands of these exact elites it shouldn't be hard to sell some propaganda to the people to get them to accept it.

    This is how I think things will develop in the USA unless you wake up and do something now.
    Like elect a completely new party to power, that is not corrupted by influence from lobbyists. Stop all wars immediately and focus on building up industry and improving education within the country.

    China also gets to ignore pollution problems:

    China's Pollution Data Shrouded In Official Fog | Fox News

    Along with the "little" human rights abuses:

    World Report 2011: China | Human Rights Watch

    This country should be followed by other countries?

    Scott

  13. #13
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    Wall Street reforms?

    Obama Tells 60 Minutes 'Damaging Behavior on Wall Street' Was Legal, Wasn't Asked Who Enacted Such Laws | NewsBusters.org

    When the media doesn't even want to look into why this is happening. At least when a democrat is president.

    Scott

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanna View Post
    For Americans who still have their heads in the sand... (you know who you are... )
    This is what your friends in the UK / BBC /say about you... and then you can imagine what the enemies say.



    Basically you've been had!!! And the Wall Street Occupiers are just trying to make people wake up and take back control from whatever shady interests are really erunning the country from behind the scenes. Drawing it deeper and deeper into irrepairable debt, while China is laughing all the way to the bank.

    Really, Americans have been had almost as badly as Russians were in the 1990s. Oh how the mighty fall...
    Hanna, I'm a little bit leery to mention this here without a flak-jacket, as there have been some interesting things set to flight in this room recently..

    But speaking from my own experience, this is no secret and hasn't ever been. It's simply been ignored for a very, very long time. I read a magazine over 12 years ago - I certainly won't be able to remember what but vaguely I seem to recall it was some huge publication like Time Mgz or something - that went into great detail about the ridiculous, indefatiguable, gargantuan behemoth debt that we had, that illustrated how it would be financially impossible to pay it back. This was a long time ago and in a pretty psychiatrically secure America, and the tone of the article was actually joking about the eventual time when we would somehow have to "pay the piper."

    On the same topic - just remembered this ---

    My candle burns at both ends;
    It will not last the night;
    But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends—
    It gives a lovely light!
    "First Fig"
    from A Few Figs from Thistles (1920)
    luck/life/kidkboom
    Грязные башмаки располагают к осмотрительности в выборе дороги. /*/ Muddy boots choose their roads with wisdom. ;

  15. #15
    Hanna
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    No, I am talking about greed of the banks and corporations that are plundering your country while you (apparently) cannot afford to eat steak...

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    And when you look at what these cockroaches have already done towards the US
    Got average living standard higher than most of the world?
    Especially exUSSR...
    But this country has been going downhill, mark my words! When I grew up we were constantly told that we lived in the best welfare state and one of the fairest and most caring countries in the world.
    Maybe that's because this "welfare" was unsustainable in the long run...
    I like this saying about socialism:
    "Sooner or later you will run out of other people's money".

  17. #17
    Старший оракул Seraph's Avatar
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    Scroll half way down:CHARTS: Here's What The Wall Street Protesters Are So Angry About...

    "When you can borrow money for nothing, and lend it back to the government risk-free for a few percentage points, you can COIN MONEY. And the banks are doing that. According to IRA, the "net interest margin" made by US banks in the first six months of this year is $211 Billion. Nice!"

    This is going on year in year out, draining the economy. The largest expense of big banks is compensation. They simply pay themselves large amounts.

    The largest amount of money is taken by people that do nothing for it, paracitising the economy, draining your wallet.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seraph View Post
    Scroll half way down:CHARTS: Here's What The Wall Street Protesters Are So Angry About...

    "When you can borrow money for nothing, and lend it back to the government risk-free for a few percentage points, you can COIN MONEY. And the banks are doing that. According to IRA, the "net interest margin" made by US banks in the first six months of this year is $211 Billion. Nice!"

    This is going on year in year out, draining the economy. The largest expense of big banks is compensation. They simply pay themselves large amounts.

    The largest amount of money is taken by people that do nothing for it, paracitising the economy, draining your wallet.
    And who created this "loophole" that the banks are taking advantage of? The government, no?

    I don't know where in the constitution "income inequality" is discussed. This is America - you are free to make a boat load of money (microsoft, google, facebook, etc.) and you are also free to fail. I personally feel that the banks and GM are not too big too fail and in my opinion they shouldn't have been bailed out.

    Thank you for the link.

    Scott

  19. #19
    Старший оракул Seraph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fortheether View Post
    And who created this "loophole" that the banks are taking advantage of? The government, no?...
    Actually this was created by the banks, and they pushed it through. This was not created by any constitutional process, nor did citizens get a vote on it.

    Also, on the separate issue, there are regulatory activities governing banks that were routinely ignored in creating the financial crisis. Failure to act on laws and regulations already on the books. This has to do with accountability of elected officials, but we can't get ride of them, because the two parties are controlled from the top down by big money.

  20. #20
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    More than 200 arrested in Occupy LA raid - Yahoo! News

    1400 полицейских!

    "Two men who constructed an elaborate tree house lashed bamboo sticks together with twine to push away any ladder police might use to evict them.Police said they would be able to remove the tree climbers."

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