Thread: Edward Snowden and his stay in Russia

Originally Posted by Hanna

But the main perpetrator of foreign executions at the moment is the USA - or are you denying that?

No, I am not. USA abroad killings count is very high and there are rightful concerns about civilian casualties. But USA justifies its actions using the war on terror. Senior members of Al-Qaeda and Taliban are main targets for USA, just as leaders of Chechen terrorists are main targets for Russia.

Putin usually emphasizes that terrorism is a threat to the whole world and that acts of terror in Russia is a part of worldwide Islamists agenda. You may watch BBC documentary "Smell of paradise" - there is the last interview with abovementioned Yandarbiyev and it's all about political Islamism and religious zealotry. He tried to look respectful and wise, but one should remember his direct involvement in financing terrorist activity on Russian soil (including infamous Moscow theater hostage crisis).

Several ethnic groups in Russia are historically Muslim (Tatars and Bashkirs from the Volga river basin, and numerous ethnicities of North Caucasus and its outskirts - including Chechens). Putin urges their religious leaders to promote what he calls "traditional Islam" as he rightfully concludes that many ideas of radical Islamism are stemming from the abroad. In the 90s mainly Chechens were notoriously known for falling for these ideas (spurred by Chechnya's failed independence attempt), but these days Islamic radicalism is spreading to neighboring Dagestan. There are also attempts to bring it to Tatarstan and Bashkiria - federal districts with significant ethnic Russian population and long history of peaceful coexistence as part of Russia. The extremists even manage to occasionally lure ethnic Russians to convert to Islam and join terrorists (unthinkable, but there are several examples). Of course Putin tries to counter these trends, and targeting notorious terrorists to stop them from exercising their influence is part of this struggle.

It's awesome that Snowden has a really cool job in Russia now! But he really needs to learn that the world will never be perfect. Imo, the US has some serious issues that can't be fixed cause those issues aren't just in the government but in the people too. But now Snowden lives in a country that has a long history of working to fix issues and, imo, he picked the best country to live in. Most people here can get happy about snooping and lies but Snowden couldn't and neither can I. A strong part of US culture is all about snooping, lies, and intimidation. It's everywhere you go here and you can see it in the news - especially about invading and interfering with other countries. But it doesn't stop there cause it's also about weakness and trust.

What was the worst thing that happened? I mean, Snowden believes we have the right to know what the government is doing. Well, if we believe in our country then that shouldn't be a problem, right?
No, the worst thing that happened was in our government. It failed on so many levels. It lost the trust of the people with a lot of it's lies but it was also proven, in the courts, that it violated 3 very important parts of the Constitution.
Is that important? Well, maybe not as important as these:

1. The government can't keep a secret and that violates National security.
2. Our security is so lame, even the Chinese know all about our new weapons systems.
3. Yeah, the politicians are liars but they're stupid liars - they always get caught lying.
4. Our president can't even shake hands with Putin without making excuses about being old and weak.
5. Our president smiles so much, he looks like a clown!

Yeah, I can understand why Snowden wanted to divorce the US. No country is perfect but at least Russia has a really cool culture and it's a strong country. And yeah, people should be where they belong, not just where they're born. Imo, he has 2 choices now. He can become a Russian citizen and accept the fact that no country is perfect or he can hop from Russia to Germany and other places and become a dude without a country. But I don't get how anyone could be happy without a country to believe in and when he has kids, they'll probably want a country to believe in too. He really needs to be thinking about that.

About Litvinenko and yandarbiyev:
Something else I really really like about Russia - No extraditions. Russia protects it's culture and it's citizens!
Well, since Litvinenko was protecting Berezovsky, then he was probably a Yeltsin supporter and a robber capitalist. Imo, that should be enough to convict anyone! And he was also a nutjob since he tried to convince people that Putin was staging terrorist acts. No way I would ever believe that. But Lugovoy's statements passed a lie detector test and I don't believe Litvinenko was assasinated by the FSB.
And I won't even discuss Yandarbiyev! He was a Chechen and an enemy of the Russian people. If the FSB assasinated him, that's cool. Somebody needed to!
I think every country has the right to defend itself but if Russia does, it must be doing it discretely cause I never see much in the news. In our country, it's about as subtle as a nuclear disaster!

Originally Posted by UhOhXplode

About Litvinenko and yandarbiyev:
Something else I really really like about Russia - No extraditions. Russia protects it's culture and it's citizens!
Well, since Litvinenko was protecting Berezovsky, then he was probably a Yeltsin supporter and a robber capitalist. Imo, that should be enough to convict anyone! And he was also a nutjob since he tried to convince people that Putin was staging terrorist acts. No way I would ever believe that.

About Litvinenko.
Actually, he was not a spy. He was just an ordinary FSB official. Berezovsky paid him for his treason and supported him in London (but not that much as Letvinenko wanted). In fact, Letvinenko was just a greedy and silly loser. Berezovskiy was very greedy, too, so there was the one difference between them: Berizovskiy had big money, Letvinenko hadn't.
The western Media keep silence about the simple fact, that all the traces lead not to London, but from the city. We can suppose that Litvinenko had this radioactive material on hand. That's why everyone who contacted with him in London got a radioactive mark.
I guess, Letvinenko wanted to sell something illegal, like polonium etc, maybe he was a middleman, who knows. It looks like he didn't observe safety and radiation killed him finally. Of course, this fact was used by Berezovsky and other enemies of Russia like a reason to attack Putin again. But if we look at it objectively, all these "facts" are just a fog of PR. The version that Putin ordered to assassinate this complete loser who didn't know anything also sounds very funny.
By the way, Berezovsky worked on Great Britain secret services. So everyone must remember how traitors end up.

Originally Posted by Paul G.

About Litvinenko.
Actually, he was not a spy. He was just an ordinary FSB official. Berezovsky paid him for his treason and supported him in London (but not that much as Letvinenko wanted). In fact, Letvinenko was just a greedy and silly loser. Berezovskiy was very greedy, too, so there was the one difference between them: Berizovskiy had big money, Letvinenko hadn't.
The western Media keep silence about the simple fact, that all traces lead not to London, but from the city. We can suppose that Litvinenko had this radioactive material on hand. That's why everyone who contacted with him in London got a radioactive mark.
I guess, Letvinenko wanted to sell something illegal, like polonium etc, maybe he was a middleman, who knows. It looks like he didn't observe safety and radiation killed him finally. Of course, this fact was used by Berezovsky and other enemies of Russia like a reason to attack Putin again. But if we look at it objectively, all these "facts" are just a fog of PR. The version that Putin ordered to assassinate this complete loser who didn't know anything also sounds very funny.
By the way, Berezovsky worked on Great Britain secret services. So everyone must remember how traitors end up.

Both Berezovsky and Putin are traitors, though. Both were buddies for a while, also. But, some traitors become expendable? Maybe that's the key... and those are facts!!!!

Wow, this is pure comedy gold below!:
"Something else I really really like about Russia - No extraditions. ***Russia protects it's culture and it's citizens!***"

Explode?!? I think I'm gonna explode with laughter! Btw, you chose the wrong 'its.'

Originally Posted by 14Russian

Wow, this is pure comedy gold below!:
"Something else I really really like about Russia - No extraditions. ***Russia protects it's culture and it's citizens!***"

Explode?!? I think I'm gonna explode with laughter! Btw, you chose the wrong 'its.'

It's fast and easy to pick a country and be idealistic about it. It takes time to realize there's no such country anywhere.

You two totally destroy any enjoyment of writing in this forum.

Apart from that, you seem to deliberately misunderstand and misquote what I am saying, and others and you completely personify the definition of trolling.

You seem determine to use this forum about the Russian language to blackpaint Russia to the greatest possible extent.

It's not about goldplating a country that doesn't deserve it; it's about respecting a nation that this forum is about, and most of the partcipants are from.

The dirt on Russia is available in any Western article or news story on the topic - do we really need to repeat the same stories here too? Every English speaking person with an interest in Russia have already heard it many times.

And those Russians who hate their own country; fine - it's your prerogative and you may have many good reasons. But is it really the reason why you learned English? And what exactly are you getting out of proliferating your views to non-Russians? Some here are so determined and persistent that I have to wonder if they are getting paid by the comment.

So go ahead and "explode with laughter" alone in this forum - I think you've managed to scare off or bore almost everyone else. There are much better places than this to get the dirt on Russia in English, and sans insults and snidy comments.

When I lived in Russia, I didn't stay in fancy hotels or limit my associations to other westerners. A lot of foreigners who claim they "lived" in Russia, don't even get to know much about the people, the language or the culture. Just the other day I was talking with an American man who *hates* Russia even though he claims to have lived in Moscow for more than a decade. He doesn't speak any Russian and he outright stated to me that "there is nothing Russia can do better than America." I replied that it's hard for me to comprehend how anyone could live in Russia that long and still be convinced of American exceptionalism, then I threw a few not so nice words at him and told him to leave me alone.

For some people, I guess, it seems like this is just one big dick measuring contest. Who is "greatest", Russia or the US? I find that so childish and so boring, comparing our countries. There is nothing original about it, it's the same crap that has gone on all my life. As long as we are comparing all the time, and competing to be "greatest," how will we ever learn from each other?

Anyway, after living and working in Russia, I developed what I describe as a love/hate relationship with that country. I think that when a country starts to feel like home, you can't help but see its flaws as well as its greatness. I certainly see the problems in America, and there is a lot which I hate about America, but a lot that I love about America too.

I will say that all the strong anti-American commentary in the forum sometimes makes me uncomfortable, even though I myself have contributed to it. The forum is about Russian language, true, but it is also about learning English. It would be nice to see an open cultural exchange where no one is made to feel intimidated or unwanted, and I agree that the trolling, snide comments and insults are tiring and immature.

I should add that there is also a clear element of misogyny in this forum among some of the members. If you pay attention, you notice that they only attack females, especially females who have strong opinions.

Originally Posted by Hanna

You two totally destroy any enjoyment of writing in this forum.

Apart from that, you seem to deliberately misunderstand and misquote what I am saying, and others and you completely personify the definition of trolling.

You seem determine to use this forum about the Russian language to blackpaint Russia to the greatest possible extent.

It's not about goldplating a country that doesn't deserve it; it's about respecting a nation that this forum is about, and most of the partcipants are from.

The dirt on Russia is available in any Western article or news story on the topic - do we really need to repeat the same stories here too? Every English speaking person with an interest in Russia have already heard it many times.

And those Russians who hate their own country; fine - it's your prerogative and you may have many good reasons. But is it really the reason why you learned English? And what exactly are you getting out of proliferating your views to non-Russians? Some here are so determined and persistent that I have to wonder if they are getting paid by the comment.

So go ahead and "explode with laughter" alone in this forum - I think you've managed to scare off or bore almost everyone else. There are much better places than this to get the dirt on Russia in English, and sans insults and snidy comments.

Хорошо написано, Ханночка! Спасибо тебе за твоё бесконечное терпение и умение смотреть на троллей с высоты.
Любые доводы и переубеждения стекают с них, как с гуся вода. Им что в лоб, что по лбу - не пробъёшься.
Я думаю, что наш форум читает много здравомыслящих людей, и я уверена, что твоя точка зрения находит у них отзыв, так что не расстраивайся по пустякам. Лично мне всегда интересно читать твои посты и я восхищаюсь твоей чистотой, искренностью и желанием находить хорошее в России.

Originally Posted by Deborski

I will say that all the strong anti-American commentary in the forum sometimes makes me uncomfortable, even though I myself have contributed to it. The forum is about Russian language, true, but it is also about learning English. It would be nice to see an open cultural exchange where no one is made to feel intimidated or unwanted, and I agree that the trolling, snide comments and insults are tiring and immature.

Yeah, it would be great, but it takes "both sides" to agree. Meanwhile, there's a certain poster here with a very strong anti-American sentiment with no explainable background, and I'm not sure if that's treatable within reasonable time. =))

Originally Posted by Eric C.

Yeah, it would be great, but it takes "both sides" to agree. Meanwhile, there's a certain poster here with a very strong anti-American sentiment with no explainable background, and I'm not sure if that's treatable within reasonable time. =))

But arguing and name calling is not the "cure" if in fact there is one. I don't blame people for hating on America right now. I agree with many of Hanna's concerns. It was not only Hanna I was referring to, however. I've encountered very negative attitudes about America in the chat, too. To an extent, I think that's just how people feel and there is nothing I can do about it. But sometimes, it would be nice to see the people separated from their governments, instead of widespread blanket hatred which applies homogeneously to all Americans, regardless of their individual ethics or kindness.

I grew up surrounded by very hateful attitudes towards Russia and Russians, and I never could understand all of that hatred either. Even as a child, I knew that people living in Russia were just human beings like us, and had no control over what their government was doing. So when I see the same "everything America/Americans do is evil" I just shake my head and think "cold war, round two." I guess humanity will never learn.

Originally Posted by Eric C.

It's fast and easy to pick a country and be idealistic about it. It takes time to realize there's no such country anywhere.

Who said anything about idealism? I've been wanting to go to Russia since I was little and some of mom's friends are Russian. I get along better with Russians than I do with my other friends so why wouldn't I wanna be around more Russians?
Like I said in my last post, the problem that can't be fixed is that it's not just the government but it's the people too. I just get along better with Russians.
And yeah, moving to another country won't be easy. Even just moving to another state wasn't easy. So yeah, there's no such anything anywhere that's perfect. That's why I decided that the people trump the government. Cause even if things get bad, you still have someone to talk to.
Well, you can't say that our country isn't epic fail and epic face-palm right now. But things can happen and maybe it will be epic win someday. Would I still wanna go to Russia? Yes! Cause people would still be the same here and I would still get along better with Russians. And they have some epic houses for sale near Moskva!
Anyway, our country didn't explode when one of my friends moved to Japan or when two of my other friends moved to Brazil and Taiwan. So, it won't explode if I move to Russia.
Btw, I think the economy's getting better. I got a huge raise on my allowance and dad ordered new tires for my mountain bike!

Originally Posted by 14Russian

Both Berezovsky and Putin are traitors, though. Both were buddies for a while, also. But, some traitors become expendable? Maybe that's the key... and those are facts!!!!

Wow, this is pure comedy gold below!:
"Something else I really really like about Russia - No extraditions. ***Russia protects it's culture and it's citizens!***"

Explode?!? I think I'm gonna explode with laughter! Btw, you chose the wrong 'its.'

President Putin is NOT a traitor! If they were "buddies for a while" then that's probably cause Putin didn't know Berezovsky was a traitor.

1. The Russian Constitution forbids extraditing Russian citizens.
2. President Putin banned adoptions outside of Russia cause people were hurting and even killing Russian orphans.
3. Who rounded up all those migrant workers when just 1 Russian citizen was murdered?
4. Who put up travel advisories when the US was arresting Russian citizens in other countries?

And that's just a few things that happened. The Russian government does protect the people and the culture.

Anyway, nothing that's been posted has changed how I feel about Russia and Russians. It's an amazing place and it has an awesome space program too!

Благодаря Сноудену я понял, почему посольство США часто отказывает в визах не объясняя причины. Наверное, они пробивают через АНБ, что данный человек писал в Фейсбуке или Твиттере по поводу Америки. И если там что-то не то, то ставят на таком челе чёрную метку.

Originally Posted by Deborski

He doesn't speak any Russian and he outright stated to me that "there is nothing Russia can do better than America."

А Вы ему скажите, что Америку уже обогнала даже "младшая сестра" России, Белоруссия, сделав самый грузоподъёмный самосвал (БелАЗ 75710), обойдя американские Caterpillar и Terex. Он сразу выпадет в осадок и поспешит ретироваться.

Originally Posted by Lampada

Спасибо тебе за твоё бесконечное терпение

Терпеть кого-то из участников - для этого не так уж много терпения и нужно...

Lampada hoe are you finding all these!!! They are so funny...

Originally Posted by Hanna

Lampada hoe are you finding all these!!! They are so funny...

Most are from Facebook.

Если говорить об ущербе, который нанёс Сноуден США, то это идеологический ущерб. Западные подростки читали Толкина и думали, что Мордор - это СССР. А теперь получается, что их собственные страны чем-то похожи на Мордор, а Сноуден спасается в РФ (то есть в Мордоре). Получается путаница, и вся идеологическая обработка подрастающего поколения Запада - коту под хвост. За такое не прощают.
Кстати, символ Мордора - это глаз.
200px-Escudo_Mordor.svg.png

Off-topic's been moved. See http://masterrussian.net/f13/life-ou...nowdens-22123/

I hope the Russians understand what is going on here. If the mod doesn't agree with your p.o.v., you're a troll here. That is the essence of this forum.

Originally Posted by 14Russian

I hope the Russians understand what is going on here. If the mod doesn't agree with your p.o.v., you're a troll here. That is the essence of this forum.

Okay-okay, trying to upset/offend the moderator now? Good luck with that!
It's not hard to recognize a troll and it has nothing to do with my views.

Originally Posted by Lampada

Okay-okay, trying to upset/offend the moderator now? Good luck with that!
It's not hard to recognize a troll and it has nothing to do with my views.

Whatever, Miss Bolshevik.

Edit: Okay, I edited my post for ya. I think the following illustrates what is going on with Russia and that Putin didn't accept Mr. Snowden out of the kindness of his heart.

Americans have PRISM, and the Russians have SORM and PAK. — Phantom Report
Russia’s Hypocrisy on Snowden | The Interpreter
FSB Seeking to Expand Online Surveillance | News | The Moscow Times
Skype, Gmail and Hotmail give encryption codes to Russian security services (FSB). [Archief] - Marokko Community

Look up SORM. Educate yourselves.

But, by all means, keep posting the daily neo-soviet drivel here ...