Thread: Edward Snowden and his stay in Russia

Ex CIA officer Edward Snowden it's a dangerous “gift” from the China. If Russia extradites Snowden that's show one's weakness, if not — that means open quarrel with the United States.

Originally Posted by Eledhwen

Ex CIA officer Edward Snowden it's a dangerous “gift” from the China. If Russia extradites Snowden that's show one's weakness, if not — that means open quarrel with the United States.

So, what in your opinion should happen now?

Ничего. Вот оно геополитическое дзюдо Путина во всей красе:
1. Мы не собираемся выдавать Сноудена, потому что Россия никогда никому никого не выдает, и потому что Сноуден — правозащитник, а наши правозащитники просят его поддержать. То есть в отличие от Европы, мы не станем тупо следовать инструкциям Вашингтона.
2. Наши спецслужбы с ним не работают. То есть Сноуден — «правозащитник» и менять его статус на «спецагента» мы не будем.
3. Оставить его у себя мы можем, если он «прекратит свою работу, направленную на то, чтобы наносить ущерб нашим американским партнерам». То есть столкнуть лбами Россию и США у Китая не получится. В свою очередь у США не получилось надавить на Россию. А Россия сохранила лицо.

...А еще Сноуден не может покинуть Москву, так как документы, имеющиеся у него, недействительны.

Lenta.ru:

Originally Posted by Eledhwen

В свою очередь у США не получилось надавить на Россию. А Россия сохранила лицо.

...А еще Сноуден не может покинуть Москву, так как документы, имеющиеся у него, недействительны.

Lenta.ru:

"А Россия сохранила лицо." How? Putin just illustrated he has no backbone. He is a spineless President. He could process the asylum request instead he excluded any possibility. Only some Latin American countries are standing up to the US making Putin look weak.

Прочти еще раз. Особенно первые два пункта.

Originally Posted by 14Russian

"А Россия сохранила лицо." How? Putin just illustrated he has no backbone. He is a spineless President. He could process the asylum request instead he excluded any possibility. Only some Latin American countries are standing up to the US making Putin look weak.

Because this guy is empty and useless. He doesn't know anything that can be of interest of the Russian secret service. That's why we don't need to process the asylum request. Putin doesn't want to play somebody else's game. And he's right, I guess.

Let's try an example, 14
Let's say somebody stole $100 from you, claiming that this particular $100 wasn't earned by you legally (there is no 100% proof that it's true)
You know who he is and you try to get your $100 back from that person
That person goes to your neighbor and offers $50 from that stolen $100, so your neighbor would hide him

Other person (who has a grudge against you) encourages your neighbor to take those $50 and hide the thief

Should your neighbor hide the thief or not?

“Weak”, “hypocritical”, “spineless”, are all emotionally charged words that easily ignite people on the forum. Let’s try to avoid such “kitchen” lexica in a serious political discussion.)))

According to the constitution of Russian Federation, our president must act for the best interests of its people (not American or some other). Hence, I’m wondering what might be the benefits for common Russians in case Putin should decide to challenge the US Administration and host Snowden for good.Also,do we really need possible political, cultural, economical or whatever sanctions that may ensue, which is quite probable, granted how furious Obama and other high officials of his administration? And I really can’t see anything tangible and substantial that could counterbalance these looming repercussions. So, maybe, it’s better for Putin to let boisterous Latin American political chieftains play “external enemy” game to gain more popularity, and stay focused on internal problems instead, is it not?
-------
Sorry , Most Russians don’t really want to live in “Honduras” anymore.)))

Гондурас

I understand that Putin just can't play edgy leftist as some Latin American Presidents, he just plays in the higher league. But he could at least make a "good" face and let some local authorities comment the situation instead of him.

Originally Posted by Basil77

I understand that Putin just can't play edgy leftist as some Latin American Presidents, he just plays in the higher league. But he could at least make a "good" face and let some local authorities comment the situation instead of him.

Very well put. I thought he was capable of showing some Russian muscle & character while not actually being an "edgy lefty". But he has indeed been put in a spot.

I really have high expectations on him though; he himself is the one who wants to portray himself as a Superman. So do something cool with this; what a PR opportunity for Russia!

Like I said before, there are more countries in the world, than the USA, and they too are looking to see how Russia handles this. And even amongh EU/Europeans, quite a few people are disgusted by the overall behaviour of the USA in this. Just look at the mass protests in Germany. Angela Merkel stays polite (and she'd better! her entire country is packed with US military bases and staff!)

Originally Posted by Hanna

Like I said before, there are more countries in the world, than the USA, and they too are looking to see how Russia handles this. And even amongh EU/Europeans, quite a few people are disgusted by the overall behaviour of the USA in this. Just look at the mass protests in Germany.

As far as I understood Germans don't care much about Snowden's fate etc. They are abused with the fact that according to Snowden's data PRISM is spying on Germany more than on any islamic country full of potential terrorists. They thought that USA is the best friend of Germany and took the idea of friendship too seriously. And now it appears that all the expensive PRISM was about stealing German technologies rather than about catching terrorists. Now Germans are in the process of making conclusions and the history teaches the world to fear processes of such kind in Germany. That may be the main reason why USA establishment is so angry.

The guy uncovered unethical and unjust spying and surveillance on their own people probably breaking numerous laws (not to mention Constitutional). 1984, anyone?

OMG.... I can't believe this but there is a first time for everything! I am going to AGREE with 14Russian on this topic. That does not mean I agree with anything else you say, however! So let's not get into a discussion about Atlas Shrugged anytime soon )))

I have been following the Snowden story closely and I think America is humiliating itself by pursuing him so ravenously. We are acting exactly the way we accused the USSR of acting when their defectors came to the US for asylum back in the Cold War. Times have changed and now the US is behaving like the "evil empire" in my opinion. I have been called "unamerican" and a "traitor" for saying this, but I think it is time for Americans to face facts! Our military budget is larger than the combined military budgets of the next 16 most developed countries including Russia and China! Our economy is suffering under the taxburdens of supporting this military, and this vast surveillance array we have all in the name of some fake "war on terror." But people are raging against the unemployed, and the poor, and the elderly and disabled - complaining about welfare and the cost of education, rather than discuss this sacred cow! Why do we need such an inflated military? When was the last time the US fought a "moral" war? In my personal opinion, the last time we had just cause to go to war was when Hitler invaded Europe. Everything since then has been expansion of empire.

Another thing is that the media is focusing too much on Snowden personally, rather than discussing that SACRED COW referenced above. Even Obama said that the nation needs to have a discussion about surveillance, so where is that discussion? The media is distracting everyone with the Snowden story.

It is fascinating for me, but support for Snowden may be one thing that actually reaches across ALL party lines in the US. It is one of the few things I find myself agreeing about with right wingers, libertarians, greenies, socialists, and every other existing political party in our nation. The converse, of course, is also true, in that people from every part of the political spectrum are calling him a traitor, too.

As for Putin, I think he went out on a limb to offer asylum to Snowden, but I cannot blame him for attaching the condition of "no further anti-American activities." Relations between the US and Russia are worse than I have seen in 25 years, and Putin does not want to increase tensions further. Besides that, we have to contend with Syria. Is the US going to keep backing the rebels, even though we now know that the rebel movement was co-opted by Al-Nusra? I have no idea.

On the homefront, Americans have always known that we were being spied on, I think, but the extent of that spying - the sheer vastness of it - is difficult to comprehend. It is good to have confirmation. In my opinion, Snowden broke the law. But he broke the law for the sake of a higher principle.

Would be nice, if spies themselves published the fruits so that anyone could evaluate their work. Otherwise, it is unclear, what they are doing.
The same requirement I address to conjurers too.
If we want more openness.

BTW, Does anyone think, that projects like Facebook was created with primary goal to spy on people?

Originally Posted by maxmixiv

BTW, Does anyone think, that projects like Facebook was created with primary goal to spy on people?

Should it be mentioned that the Internet itself has evolved from the ARPAnet project, a military network designed to support the US defense facilities?

This song completely sums up the problems in America for me - if you can forgive the language.

Make a poll.

Snowden Seen as Whistle-Blower by Majority in New Poll - Bloomberg.

CERN or ?
http://home.web.cern.ch/about/birth-web.

Snowden: I never gave any information to Chinese or Russian governments l Glenn Greenwald | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk

Excerpt from this article:

The extraordinary claim that China had drained the contents of Snowden's laptops first appeared in the New York Times in a June 24 article. The paper published the claim with no evidence and without any attribution to any identified sources.

In lieu of any evidence, the NYT circulated this obviously significant assertion by quoting what it called "two Western intelligence experts" who "worked for major government spy agencies". Those "experts" were not identified. The article then stated that these experts "said they believed that the Chinese government had managed to drain the contents of the four laptops that Mr. Snowden said he brought to Hong Kong" (emphasis added).

So that's how this "China-drained-his-laptops" claim was created: by the New York Times citing two anonymous sources saying they "believed" this happened. From there, it predictably spread everywhere as truth.

Shortly thereafter, the New Yorker – under the headline "Why China Let Snowden Go" - told its readers: "His usefulness was almost exhausted. Intelligence experts cited by the Times believed that the Chinese government 'had managed to drain the contents of the four laptops that Mr. Snowden said he brought to Hong Kong, and that he said were with him during his stay at a Hong Kong hotel.'" It was then repeatedly cited to demonize Snowden in venues such as DC gossip sheets, right-wing outlets, and diaries at Democratic Party sites.

But there was never any evidence that this was true. The NYT decided to publish this incendiary claim in a news article based purely on rank speculation from two anonymous sources. Obviously, Snowden's denial is not dispositive and shouldn't be treated as such. But it is the only actual evidence on this question thus far.

Obama promised to protect whistleblowers and what a surprise, the reality is Obama has shown you yet another lie. Snowden fears going back to the USA since he feels he won't get a fair trial and worse outcomes.

Snowden case: Has Obama broken pledge to protect whistleblowers? - World - CBC News

RE: Putin topic related to this.... I am not asserting Putin has to suddenly adhere to some sort of 'human rights' principle but to just follow the process of the asylum request. But, he made excuses so he doesn't have to challenge the USA. He took the easy road so to speak. I never stated that these Latin American countries are 'innocent' freedom-loving entities either. Their decisions to consider the request is probably (if not entirely) political but at least they didn't cave. Even with the threats of the USA, they tried to maintain some sense of sovereignty and they are not as influential as Russia supposedly is. If Putin thinks he 'won't play that game,' that doesn't change anything. It just re-affirms my assertion that he is spineless. He picks his spots when he 'disagrees' with the U.S..

National Whistleblowers Center - Obama's Hardest Promise: Protecting Workers Who Blow The Whistle

Edward Snowden live web chat: Whistleblower slams Obama on broken promises over civil liberties | Mail Online

Glenn Greenwald: Remember When Obama Vowed to Protect Whistleblowers? | Alternet

Obama’s War on Whistleblowers

Obama's New "Zero-Tolerance" of Whistleblowers Betrays Promised Protection

Obama and the USA cannot be trusted. The lies and total reversals after promises and assurances mean you cannot trust the U.S. Government. The deceptions, the violations of the Constitution and the infringements on Americans mean they cannot be trusted and is further proof the USA is going down the slippery slope (and things are getting worse). This is NOT about acknowledging they are using Facebook info of some stupid kids posting pics and telling how their day went. Anyone who wants to overlook it and shrug their shoulders about this is an idiot. The U.S. Government relishes the population who have their heads in the sand or ignore what's going on, though. They love you!

Interesting new development...

Ъ-Online - Эдвард Сноуден встретился с российскими правозащитниками и попросил убежище в

"Бывший сотрудник ЦРУ Эдвард Сноуден, обвиняемый США в шпионаже, сегодня встретился с российскими правозащитниками. На встрече, прошедшей в аэропорту «Шереметьево», в транзитной зоне которого господин Сноуден находится с 23 июня, он попросил политического убежища в России и пообещал выполнить условия президента Владимира Путина, чтобы остаться в стране."

I think it is time for Edward Snowden to learn the Russian alphabet!